New Mexico trooper stop..shots fired!!

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george minze

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I just watched that fiasco in New Mexico....The driver a lady or so she was described but had kids in the car, tried driving away from Troopers that had stopped her for a violation they shot at the car and then beat out the passenger windo with their night sticks....I come from the old school but darn not that old....Unless there is something that we didn't see on TV I think those troopers had better come up with a doozy explaination..Watch it, it is all over the news..Maybe a little over reaction. Considering my back ground and when I started in LE I usually always give the LEO's the benifit....However this dash tape is not to benificial to NMSP.....In my opinion. Watch it and what do you think...Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age ??????
 
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The unedited version shows the woman getting out of the van after the officer told her they had clocked her going 71, she exited the van confronting the officer and then attempted to drive off. They stop her again and she gets out and assaults the officer and her 14 yo son (who appears to be a grown man) bails out of the passenger side and joins in the assault then they jump back into the van and drive off while the state police are trying to stop the van. Over reacting? Perhaps, but where is the limit and how much abuse are the officers expected to take. Personally I would have jumped back into my vehicle and radioed an APB and joined in a hot pursuit...but then if she wrecked the van the police would have again been vilified for pursuing a vehicle loaded with children. Who is REALLY at fault here is the mother who put the lives of her children in jeopardy and her thug of a son who assaulted a police officer but I'm sure before all is done the the only bad guys will be the NMSP.
 
Unless the driver of the car had a threatning weapon, I'de sat it is far over reacting to a traffic stop for speeding. No need to be shooting at the vehicle. I never believed in police car chases. All the police have to do is follow the car till it runs out of gas. Then apprehend or whatever. Why put other people in danger. Shooting at a car full of kids over a traffic violation, ( unless the driver had a weapon), is not good law enforcement. Don't these officers get proper training before giving them a badge and a gun ?
 
There is always 3 sides to a story as far as I'm concerned but even after all has been reveled it appears that in this age of audio and video seemingly everywhere,today's LEOs are not being portrayed in a favorable light.
That preconception is only spread after each video is released and I can't help but think that it has almost become a self fulfilling prophecy.
I believe that being a LEO has become a job instead of a profession and a shift in training will only prove to a increase in these type of incidents.
 
One thing is certain: the DashCam is the textbook definition of a "disinterested observer". No bias at all. One question I had was this: Did the officer who fired the shots know there were kids in the car?
 
"Kids" is a very broad term. Last week I met a distant family member who got remarried. I saw her stepson. Young man about 23 years old, about 6 ft tall at 180lbs +/-, very muscular with broad shoulders and big arms. Looks like the guy works out. I was floored when I found out he just turned 15

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Unless the driver of the car had a threatning weapon, I'de sat it is far over reacting to a traffic stop for speeding. No need to be shooting at the vehicle. I never believed in police car chases. All the police have to do is follow the car till it runs out of gas. Then apprehend or whatever. Why put other people in danger. Shooting at a car full of kids over a traffic violation, ( unless the driver had a weapon), is not good law enforcement. Don't these officers get proper training before giving them a badge and a gun ?

That's a good plan, if they are just "refusing to pull over".

But when you're on a 60MPH road, and they are driving away at 103mph, if you are going to "follow the car", you pretty much gotta be driving 103mph also. Right?

Cop-car following a non-cop-car at 40 miles over the limit is "high speed pursuit".

I don't think you thought this out completely.
 
Of course I'm like some others here....I'm ol school and I've shot at vehicles, but all of em was trying to run over me!

Not flee the scene of a traffic stop for a violation, even after being stop the second time, from flee the first stop.
Probable just a misdemeanor fleeing charge at best.....

Mexico's statutes might or may allow an officer to use deadly force to stop a fleeing misdemeanor suspect, I jest don't know about that.

I'd just about bet a dollar to a road apple, that some former talk show host is gonna be all over this one...
The popo can't just go around 'dis'n folks like that! :rolleyes:


When ya let a simple traffic stop get out of control....This is the kind stuff that can happen. Bad all the way around.


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* Just in; Driver also charge with possession of drug paraphernalia....Which may have been legal in Colorado...;)

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Firing on a vehicle moving away, with no shots fired from the vehicle or weapon displayed by an occupant of the vehicle would have been a violation of our firearms policy. If a moving vehicle is coming towards you in a manner that puts your life in danger, then you can fire on the vehicle. I wasn't there, wasn't involved, but based on what little I saw, I didn't see any behavior that would have made me fire on that vehicle. JMHO...
 
There is always 3 sides to a story as far as I'm concerned but even after all has been reveled it appears that in this age of audio and video seemingly everywhere,today's LEOs are not being portrayed in a favorable light.
That preconception is only spread after each video is released and I can't help but think that it has almost become a self fulfilling prophecy.
I believe that being a LEO has become a job instead of a profession and a shift in training will only prove to a increase in these type of incidents.

I hate to say it, but you are right to a degree. Affirmative action and relaxed hiring standards are partly to blame. Instead of hiring the best candidate for the job, agencies are hiring the person with the right skin tone or anatomy hat can pass the minimum standard. Beyond that, you have fewer and fewer people testing every year. Because of this standards have been lowered and people being hired that would have never had a chance 20 years ago.

Then you have the liberal media. They edit video and report in a manner that suits their agenda. This is true across the board, not just in regards to LE. From the inside looking out, as a LEO, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. From the media to the public to our own administrators people love to sit back and MMQB decisions that the officer in questions had a split second to make. However, if you're wrong, you're wrong.

First of all, the mother is flat out wrong, she made every bit of this happen. Apparently drug paraphernalia was found in the vehicle after the fiasco ended. Another mother of the year candidate for sure... What kind of mother would act that way in front of her children? Absolutely unreal.

The only issue I see is firing at the vehicle. Perhaps it may be within NMSP policy to attempt to disable a vehicle by shooting tires out, but it was a bad decision with children in the vehicle. Perhaps after the initial incident the trooper should have used more force more swiftly to get the woman secured before things went further south. It's a common thing to see officers use too little force on women and it almost always ends poorly. Frankly, IMO he was trying to make the best of a bad situation, but the woman insisted on making matters worse.

This fracas is just another manifestation of the decay of society and the ever growing entitlement mindset.


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That's a good plan, if they are just "refusing to pull over".

But when you're on a 60MPH road, and they are driving away at 103mph, if you are going to "follow the car", you pretty much gotta be driving 103mph also. Right?

Cop-car following a non-cop-car at 40 miles over the limit is "high speed pursuit".

I don't think you thought this out completely.

Nope! My car can do 400 highway miles on one tank. Using that logic.....I filled up today and if I were to be chased by the police I can go north from work in Pa, through NJ, through all of NY state, into Canada and almost make it to Montreal which is about 2hrs north of the border. On a 1/2 a tank I can get to almost the border. Assuming I had 1/2 a tank this would be a 4-6 hour police chase involving 3 states and many many townships and cities

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I have not seen the video, so any comments are strictly off the top of my head. I understand there was a high sped pursuit, an assault on an officer by two parties, then another high sped pursuit. Perhaps the officers were justified in the action that they took.

If you don't want to have something like this happen to you, then obey the law. If you disagree with the charges that's fine. Remember that's what the court system is for, not the side of the road.

Sadly, today to many folks feel that violence is the proper way to deal with a disagreement...
 
I guess they learned something on this "educational road trip".

I wasn't there and I'm not LEO, and only the officers can answer, but being he already had his Taser out maybe he should have just zapped her and ended it. After the second stop when he had the door open and she didn't comply then he had a chance there to tase her. Right or wrong as I see the video the officer was firing at the tires as he stated, still no excuse and three shots at that distance guess he thought he was dead eye. Wonder why the just arrived officer didn't pull in front of her and block her vehicle when he pulled up after she had just fled a earlier scene. Lots of after thought here but things happen fast.

Biggest offender here is the mother she instrumented the whole ordeal.

Obey the officer take the ticket and if ya think it's unwarranted go to court. She is the one that put her children at risk. Of course spike strips would have been better if available, she goes to jail, gets ticket and has to buy at least one new tire and probably rim. A lesson that cost money is a lesson you never forget. I guess the 18 yo had more sense then the BA 14 yo tuff guy who was protecting his defenseless mother from the big bad LEO according to the link posted..
 
They've got a plate number,radios and computers.How hard would it be to drop by her shack and pick up the dingbat?

Assuming she in fact lives there, she is the driver of the car and it is not loaned out to a friend/relative, it has not been stolen, she will return shortly and isn't moving.

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Any body have a taser? Fish flop dance would be the next thing on the dash cam film.

Bad deal for the officers trying to do their job. A sad result of all this on the news is that some people see this and think I don't have to listen to the police...don't you touch me..
 
I did some searching and found the video.

N.M. police fire on minivan filled with kids, their mom: How it happened - CBS News

From the top:

Simple speeding stop. Shut up and take the ticket. Everything that happens from there is the fault of the driver. I have no idea why she drove away. The initial flight would be a misdemeanor here, as far as I can see - it takes recklessness in addition to the non-compliance to make it a felony elude.

Then: The trooper's tactics suck. They are awful. When she stops again, he should never have approached the vehicle. Period. It is now a high risk (as opposed to unknown risk, the only other category of stop; the felony/misdemeanor distinction is a lousy way to categorize). The trooper should have held the vehicle at gun (RIFLE) point from a position of cover or at least concealment until enough additional units were present to direct all the occupants out, one at a time, separate them, and find out what the heck is going on. (That means proned and cuffed, at least until the little ones are coming out and not likely to be a threat.) The level of complacency shown is appalling and worthy of a lengthy suspension and some serious re-training. If it is within policy and training, fire the nitwit who is responsible for that. You can't fix a command officer so stupid.

The tactical failure shows as soon as the trooper tries to drag the driver out. That's a heck of a chore to accomplish, and as we can see, it did not work. (Not anywhere near enough force, but he still should not have been up there.) It also meant he was not paying attention to the passengers, one of whom had already shown himself to be a threat by his prior actions. Clownshoes, top to bottom. He did not use nearly enough force on the driver, and he sure as heck did not use enough force on the passenger.

14? Who cares - big enough to be a problem. I spent years prosecuting juveniles. Many are dangerous because they are immature, and big enough to be a problem. I got in more fights in the juvenile court room with upset offenders (usually over piddly stuff, in the grand scheme) that I did with adult criminals. The passenger should have been hit hard enough to put him in the hospital as soon as he touched the trooper. PR24 (ASPs are about as useful as mammary glands on a bowling ball) to the thigh, palm-heel strikes to the face, cuff, ambulance, booking. Period.

Shooting? Ugh. I am not impressed. Admittedly, there is a violent felony in the mix now, but the escape is not by using the car as a weapon. I'd be hesitant. (So hesitant I can't see myself shooting). That said, the trooper shooting may not have known about the kids in the car, and mom is the one responsible for them being at risk. A zillion people a day get pulled over for piddly stuff like this; they get a ticket or a warning, and they go on their way after the contact with no drama. We can bet some # have contraband of some type, but most of those enforcement actions are not worth the time, and won't come up unless the driver is a complete idiot.

Those kids needed to be in protective custody (the 4 not apparently involved in criminal acts; the assailant needs to be in custody at the local juvenile detention center). I would have filed that as a child protective case in a heartbeat. This looks ugly, but it is not near as bad as will be portrayed by the ignorant fools who know nothing of use of force (including media, lawyers, and most command officers). Mom is responsible for all of it.
 
I saw the video. Hind sight is always 20/20. The police have so many assets available, even if they aren't there at the moment; calling ahead for road blocks, helicopters, etc.

What I don't get is why they weren't subdued with non-lethal means. One cop smashed a window with his baton, why couldn't they have been tasered? When the woman was out of the car and resisting why didn't they take her down? And she was a person of color, wait until the civil rights folks get involved.
 
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