The proposed mods are to be on a gun that will only be used for shooting at the range where there is no reason at all to decock or use any kind of safety. The OP seems to make that clear in his initial post. As long as the gun is used strictly in that setting, there is no increased risk at all, but outside of that setting I would want the gun returned to its normal configuration. I agree with JohnHL that the OP seems to understand those things.
New S&W 4566TSW Owner - Couple Questions
- Thread starter MS88
- Start date
I stated earlier in the Thread that this gun is EXCLUSIVELY for the Range. I don't even carry yet and when I do, it'll be with a smaller 9mm. I'll decock/unload it the same way I do with every other gun: point downrange, drop mag, rack slide.
I know the rules of gun safety, but thank you for the concern.
Thanks.
4506517
Member
Wow........
Did I accidentally logon to Glocktalk?
Did I accidentally logon to Glocktalk?
JohnHL
Member
I appreciate your post and respect your opinion.
I don't profess to be an expert when it comes to the Model of 1911, but no less an expert than Jim Wilson, writing in the March 26, 2015 edition of the American Rifleman had this to say about Condition 2: "I have found it to be the best way for me to prepare my 1911 for placing it on the nightstand at bedtime."
Your thoughts?
John
JohnHL
Member
Hi, Walter!
Thanks for you gentlemanly post.
In the interest of brevity and succinctness, I have edited it so that I might respectfully take issue with the substance of your comments.
This old saw has been circulating around the gun community for so long that people seem to accept is as gospel.
The actual fact of the matter is, if someone negligently shoots another person, modified gun or not, the shooter is, and should be, liable. (Just as if a person negligently ran over someone with their car.)
The only way a modified gun could damage the defendants case would be if the defendant fraudulently asserted that the gun went off without his control (i.e. that the gun was "defective").
IMHO that lie would be almost as bad as negligently shooting someone.
John
Thanks for everybody that helped me and confirmed my questions and ideas. I'll be ordering the parts today and I can't wait.
I'll also be removing the Mag Disconnect so I anticipate countless NDs at home and at the range.
Also, just got offered a 5906 today for my Taurus 990 so I'll be a proud owner of TWO Gen 3s in a very short period. Yay.
I'll also be removing the Mag Disconnect so I anticipate countless NDs at home and at the range.
Also, just got offered a 5906 today for my Taurus 990 so I'll be a proud owner of TWO Gen 3s in a very short period. Yay.
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You're just posting that to mess with people, aren't you? 
You're turning your 4566TSW into a Glock!
You're turning your 4566TSW into a Glock!
John - The exact quote you reference is as follows:
American Rifleman | Conditions of Readiness for the 1911 Pistol
Read some of the on-line comments to the article and you'll appreciate a bit more of the safety controversy re: Condition 2. Would I do what he recommends and for the reason he says he recommends it? No. For a variety of reasons, it just doesn't apply to me and my situation. Not now, not ever.
Beyond that, I'm sorry I posted anything in this thread. I should have stayed the Hell out of it as my gut had told me. Live and learn.
JohnHL
Member
Thank you for providing the exact quote, although I do not understand how the additional context changes the meaning of the sentence I posted.
Perhaps you will explain that to me.
And thank you for providing the link to the article. I'm sure others will also enjoy it.
I did read the comments and of the 6 posted, 3 did not address the issue, 1 clearly defended "Condition 2", 1 said the hammer could slip if "Done incorrectly", and the 3rd said it was "STUPID" (his capitalization, not mine) without offering any evidence to support his "argument".
Oft times, it seems "conventional wisdom" is no more than a fallacious or outdated piece of information (sometimes based on a modicum of fact) that has been regurgitated without question over a long enough period of time that it becomes accepted.
John
gunhobbit
Member
Decocking the hammer will require you to press the trigger while lowering the hammer with your thumb.
While us revolver guys have been doing that since the late 1800's, it is kinda frightening to some people.
Those of us with CZ75s haven't been doing it for nearly that long, admittedly.
H'ain't shotted myself yet, though.
Hey again everybody. Back again with a couple updates on my progress and some new pics back in factory config. I ordered the Curved factory S&W grips and some Wolff hammer springs from Midway and got them installed the other day. Also ordered the Firing Pin Retainer (thank you Bluedot37!) from Numrich this last Sunday and it still hasn't shipped yet.. disappointing.
The (Curved) factory Grips are a big improvement over the Hogue grips in terms of girth and looks but I think I might prefer the profile of the Flat grips instead - wish I could've tried both before ordering. I installed the 16lb Wolff spring while I was changing out the grips and the DA pull is pretty fantastic now. Single action seems a bit lighter but I'm not 100% sure; SA was already light and crisp so it's hard to tell without a gauge. I'm going to go a bit further soon and lightly polish the contact surfaces in the trigger system to see if that improves it further. Excellent guide here ([ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qUBHIdWX4[/ame]). Hammer power is still strong and I'm not expecting light strikes but have 2 higher-power springs to install if necessary.
Anyways, gave it its first good cleaning when I put on the grips and it looks great now. Love the finish on this gun and it seems pretty durable, even has a nice semi-matte shine when lightly oiled! Do you guys know if the TSW markings on the Slide are printed on or engraved? It doesn't feel engraved to the touch so I'm hoping to preserve the lettering so please let me know if you have suggestions.
I have questions about the frame and slide that I'll ask here but it's probably more appropriate for a new thread:
1. Is the Frame Forged or Cast on the steel-frame S&Ws and what type of Steel was used? Are TSW models different in any way in construction?
2. What type of Steel is used in the Slide and Barrel (assuming Slide is forged)?
3. Are there any parts prone to failure or issues I should keep an eye out for (on 3rd gen .45s, but my 4566TSW in particular)?
Thanks in advance. I have a lot of interest in this gun because it's sexy, seems well-made and is one of the most unique guns in my budding collection.
Here's the pics: http://imgur.com/a/IJKLY
The (Curved) factory Grips are a big improvement over the Hogue grips in terms of girth and looks but I think I might prefer the profile of the Flat grips instead - wish I could've tried both before ordering. I installed the 16lb Wolff spring while I was changing out the grips and the DA pull is pretty fantastic now. Single action seems a bit lighter but I'm not 100% sure; SA was already light and crisp so it's hard to tell without a gauge. I'm going to go a bit further soon and lightly polish the contact surfaces in the trigger system to see if that improves it further. Excellent guide here ([ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qUBHIdWX4[/ame]). Hammer power is still strong and I'm not expecting light strikes but have 2 higher-power springs to install if necessary.
Anyways, gave it its first good cleaning when I put on the grips and it looks great now. Love the finish on this gun and it seems pretty durable, even has a nice semi-matte shine when lightly oiled! Do you guys know if the TSW markings on the Slide are printed on or engraved? It doesn't feel engraved to the touch so I'm hoping to preserve the lettering so please let me know if you have suggestions.
I have questions about the frame and slide that I'll ask here but it's probably more appropriate for a new thread:
1. Is the Frame Forged or Cast on the steel-frame S&Ws and what type of Steel was used? Are TSW models different in any way in construction?
2. What type of Steel is used in the Slide and Barrel (assuming Slide is forged)?
3. Are there any parts prone to failure or issues I should keep an eye out for (on 3rd gen .45s, but my 4566TSW in particular)?
Thanks in advance. I have a lot of interest in this gun because it's sexy, seems well-made and is one of the most unique guns in my budding collection.
Here's the pics: http://imgur.com/a/IJKLY
4506517
Member
Slide and frame are forged if I'm not mistaken.
Slide markings are laser engraved.
TSW models were supposedly fitted as a pair, with improved rails and contact surfaces.
You can Google or search this site for the graphic which details the improvements introduced with the TSW series.
Slide markings are laser engraved.
TSW models were supposedly fitted as a pair, with improved rails and contact surfaces.
You can Google or search this site for the graphic which details the improvements introduced with the TSW series.
Earlier TSW pistols were supposedly tighter fitted and matched upper/lower, and many owners claim they notice a difference. I believe it is less so on later TSW pistols.
The one part on most of the .45cal pistols that does give trouble -- nearly to the point where it's an epidemic is the trigger play spring. It's the riveted, funny little copper looking springy tab mounted to the trigger. These bend and break and it allows the trigger to "click" in a most annoying fashion.
Word is that it's so prevalent that some LE armorer began yanking them off as a matter of routine and I've read of at least one LE org that simply ordered S&W to ship their pistols without this blasted cheap spring.
The spring isn't prone to failure in all the other pistols.
The one part on most of the .45cal pistols that does give trouble -- nearly to the point where it's an epidemic is the trigger play spring. It's the riveted, funny little copper looking springy tab mounted to the trigger. These bend and break and it allows the trigger to "click" in a most annoying fashion.
Word is that it's so prevalent that some LE armorer began yanking them off as a matter of routine and I've read of at least one LE org that simply ordered S&W to ship their pistols without this blasted cheap spring.
The spring isn't prone to failure in all the other pistols.
Last update and project finished for now. Got the Firing Pin Retainer from Numrich and put it in today. It's hard to tell in the pictures but it's more of a Grey to the frame and slide's Silver finish. I want paint/coat it a similar black to the old decocker and hammer but I'm not sure what to use.
Final tally: Curved original S&W grips, Decocker/safety delete for smooth slide, 16lb Hammer spring (20lb factory).
Don't know how 'good' the barrels are in these but with the great trigger, very tight slide-to-frame fit and tight barrel fit this should be be competitive with the best of them. Happy!
Final pics: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Haha, wow. Well that solves it. Mine has an annoying feel/click in the SA take up that really feels like ****. Wasn't going to say anything so I'm glad you pointed that out.
I've never had a gun with anything resembling the 'Trigger play Spring' clip thing so after looking at the diagram I figured that was probably the culprit. You're saying they can just be removed without effecting anything else? If so that's something I'll definitely do but that (I think?) involves pretty much removing the entire trigger/sear/hammer assembly. Is that correct? Thanks for the help as always!
Final tally: Curved original S&W grips, Decocker/safety delete for smooth slide, 16lb Hammer spring (20lb factory).
Don't know how 'good' the barrels are in these but with the great trigger, very tight slide-to-frame fit and tight barrel fit this should be be competitive with the best of them. Happy!
Final pics: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Haha, wow. Well that solves it. Mine has an annoying feel/click in the SA take up that really feels like ****. Wasn't going to say anything so I'm glad you pointed that out.
I've never had a gun with anything resembling the 'Trigger play Spring' clip thing so after looking at the diagram I figured that was probably the culprit. You're saying they can just be removed without effecting anything else? If so that's something I'll definitely do but that (I think?) involves pretty much removing the entire trigger/sear/hammer assembly. Is that correct? Thanks for the help as always!
Attachments
JohnHL
Member
Yes, drawbar must be removed to replace trigger play spring.
Congrats on your mods.
If you can do this you can do the drawbar.
Of course as I told you in an earlier post after I explained how to do this, "Keep your pistol pointed in a safe direction when decocking."
BTW, ALL TSW pistols were manufactured with a numbers matching frame and slide.
The earlier models had the matching numbers somewhat prominently displayed under the grips and inside the slide.
The later models often had the matching numbers hidden under the rear sight and sometimes under the sear spring.
This led people to conclude that the later models were not produced with matching assemblies and sometimes department armorers would mix and match frame and slide assemblies (not realizing that they were a matched set).
John
Congrats on your mods.
If you can do this you can do the drawbar.
Of course as I told you in an earlier post after I explained how to do this, "Keep your pistol pointed in a safe direction when decocking."
BTW, ALL TSW pistols were manufactured with a numbers matching frame and slide.
The earlier models had the matching numbers somewhat prominently displayed under the grips and inside the slide.
The later models often had the matching numbers hidden under the rear sight and sometimes under the sear spring.
This led people to conclude that the later models were not produced with matching assemblies and sometimes department armorers would mix and match frame and slide assemblies (not realizing that they were a matched set).
John
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If the trigger play spring's two fingers are intact then you can try pushing the fingers forward with the eraser end of a pencil to tighten it up. It may stay good or it may just loosen up again later. It worked on mine.
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4566TSW "Click" in SA Take-up
I realize this is an old thread, but it just gave me the answer I was looking for, so I figured I'd say "Thank You" here to SEVENS, Bluedotz37 and other members for some good info.
I just bought a 4566TSW and unlike my 3rd Gen DA/SA 9mm guns this one had an annoying "click" in the SA take up. I removed the slide, cocked the hammer and carefully looked/listened while slowly taking up the trigger in SA, but not enough to drop the hammer. I could see where the drawbar would pop up just a little (the dreaded click) as the trigger was taken up. As noted in this thread, the trigger play spring was not providing the necessary forward tension on the trigger...it had too much play. So I used a pencil eraser to bend it forward just a bit, as suggested by Bluedotz37, to bring it into contact with the trigger and no more click! I'm sure it won't last forever, so I'll be ordering a trigger play spring and rivet soon. Thanks again for the tip. Interesting that this is an issue for the 45s but not the 9mms (of course, I have several replacement springs and rivets for my 3913s, all still in the bag, and NONE for my "new" 4566). BTW, with the exception of the trigger play spring, the 4566TSW appears to be built like a tank - you know a gun is special when you want to clean it (even if it doesn't need it) just so you can admire the engineering and workmanship. Looking forward to taking her to the range real soon.
I realize this is an old thread, but it just gave me the answer I was looking for, so I figured I'd say "Thank You" here to SEVENS, Bluedotz37 and other members for some good info.
I just bought a 4566TSW and unlike my 3rd Gen DA/SA 9mm guns this one had an annoying "click" in the SA take up. I removed the slide, cocked the hammer and carefully looked/listened while slowly taking up the trigger in SA, but not enough to drop the hammer. I could see where the drawbar would pop up just a little (the dreaded click) as the trigger was taken up. As noted in this thread, the trigger play spring was not providing the necessary forward tension on the trigger...it had too much play. So I used a pencil eraser to bend it forward just a bit, as suggested by Bluedotz37, to bring it into contact with the trigger and no more click! I'm sure it won't last forever, so I'll be ordering a trigger play spring and rivet soon. Thanks again for the tip. Interesting that this is an issue for the 45s but not the 9mms (of course, I have several replacement springs and rivets for my 3913s, all still in the bag, and NONE for my "new" 4566). BTW, with the exception of the trigger play spring, the 4566TSW appears to be built like a tank - you know a gun is special when you want to clean it (even if it doesn't need it) just so you can admire the engineering and workmanship. Looking forward to taking her to the range real soon.
Cool! Glad it worked for you.
I can't remember which of mine I had to tighten up the spring on, but whichever, it's still good & I haven't had to replace it...yet.
Hope you enjoy shooting yours!
.
I can't remember which of mine I had to tighten up the spring on, but whichever, it's still good & I haven't had to replace it...yet.
Hope you enjoy shooting yours!
.
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JohnHL
Member
JohnHL, thanks for letting me know. Parts commonality is a good thing! I took a close look at the spring in the gun, compared to a new one and it is all there, just a little tired I guess (I can relate to that). But I will stay with the old spring until it breaks or until I tear it down for a thorough cleaning and have the draw bar in hand.
