New Year New Problem

I have never understood why a gun owner would start removing and replacing "critical" parts (like a gas block for example), apparently thinking they know more about the M&P10 design criteria than the Engineers from Smith & Wesson who designed it to function properly.

And they wonder why, after messin' with it, their weapon exhibits failures. Duh

vfin
 
vfin,

Before you accuse me of ignorance in replacing 'critical' parts and that I think I am smarter than Engineers at S&W let me initially respond to your claims by stating that whatever critical parts that were replaced were done so by a professional gunsmiths and never did I mention that I know better than S&W engineers who actually copied the original design from Eugene Morrison Stoner (with improvements I might add).

Secondly, it really amazes me that you are actually a member of this forum or any other gun enthusiast forum, as you may have notice almost every thread is related to tinkering, customizing that person's M&P 10 and sharing that experience with members. If we were to follow your guidelines there maybe perhaps on thread regarding problems or issues related to stock ..yes stock configuration, and better yet why even discuss them when you can RMA your rifle back to the Geniuses at S&W.

Most Importantly, its my rifle and my $$ if I wish to color it blue that's my choice at least respect that. I have summarized the modifications that I have done to it outlined below, (oh by the way I have modified my other S&W M&P 15 and it is a 40 percent improvement in all aspects and functions reliably 1500 rounds plus). What you fail to understand is S&W business formula of cost vs profit which are unlike mine and other forum members cost vs benefit.

Improvements: Yes, there are: cosmetically and performance wise.

That cheap stock, are you kidding me...replaced with Magpul CTR, more comfortable in every aspect and looks 100 better.

The rifle kicked like a mule, its supposed to be a semi-auto but functioned like bolt action as quick follow-up shots were impossible thru scope, so after replacing that hideous flash hider (some like it and to each his own) with compensator I am able to do so.

The handguard, seriously how much did that cost S&W about 10 cents, now I have the Troy free float that I can add rails to and a bipod without affecting my POI plus looks better and adds slight weight which also benefits in reduced recoil.

Let's not discuss triggers, barrels-not possible (if S&W were not so stingy with their proprietary stuff .. think $$) and other improvements cosmetic or performance related which may or may not have some negative aspects to them, and in this arena is where discussions regarding pros and cons are shared and advise given by knowledgeable members (naturally not S&W PhD holders but they will do).

As for my dilemma, the only issue I had was the bolt not locking back after last round, even if that remains which I highly doubt, I am more than happy with the way it functions and looks. As it turns out, my gas rings were shot according to the gunsmith, matter of fact I have an earlier thread in which I stated so and this was the case prior to any modifications with only 200 rounds through it... hmmm S&W shipped me a brand new rifle with worn-out rings, nooo that can't be. Luckily I had acquired some DPMS gas rings and now have brand new rings and will confirm on my next range outing if it's the fix since I have such a minor gas leak.

Frankly, the majority of us who did purchase this 'battle rifle' will not see one... (Thank God, WAR is not fun ask a veteran specially when you're being shot at), maybe some paper targets and if lucky steel or for recreational hunting, so unlike you the joy is trying to squeeze every ounce of improvement perceived or not out of our toys, lets keep it real.
 
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MY comment, or should I say "opinion" (for what it may be worth) was not pointed toward cosmetic changes, but rather "generally" aimed at firearm enthusiasts "messing" with the structural components of the M&P10, irrespective of who modified your rifle, be it an experienced gunsmith, or some non-SAW firearms engineer familar to you, it is now a "problematic" firearm, contrary to your stated goal of "squeezing" every ounce of improvement out of it. Seems the "improvement squeeze" didn't work out too well, did it?

That "fact" supports my "above paygrade" opinion. ie. don't fix it if it ain't broken

In any event, I do hope you manage to find a suitable fix to what you term a "Dilemma".

vfin
 
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Vfin, there is nothing wrong with having an opinion ... there is, however, something very wrong with casting stumbling blocks with a lack of compassion as well as the sheer disrespect for someone else's thread. This is something you should have weighed in on more appropriately in your own thread in the lounge. Throwing salt in someone's wound is just wrong.

Moreover, Smith & Wesson would not have included an accessories catalog in the rifle packaging that promotes the same upgrades that Sonny Gunny has taken on if these modifications weren't safe and within the design criteria of the rifle. This same accessories catalog promotes and endorses the Apex free float handguard ... which requires replacing the OEM gas block with a low profile gas block. Your explanation for skepticism of change on the basis of the S&W engineer's design criteria is far fetched. It was like listening to a radio advocates rant ... it had no substance ... and sounded as ridiculous as someone saying "I don't understand why a person would cut the crust off a slice of sandwich bread, apparently thinking they know more about the design criteria than the chef's at Mrs. Baird's who designed the bread to function properly only with the crust."

Bless your heart, Vfin. I know you mean well.
 
I was enjoying watching this thread, until vfin jumped in.
Let us all just ignore him, unless he has something constructive to add, and proceed with this thread as if he never commented.
 
Since "...every bullet has a Lawyer's name on it...", many Defendants in a Deadly Shooting Incident Trial, where Forensics scrutinizes the weapon used to no end... have been blemished by aggressive Prosecutors who zero'd in on self-modification of their Firearms, by advancing the proposition the Defendant, in modifying his/her weapon, was so presumptuous & soooo---> "Gun Crazy" as to think he/she knew more about the subject firearm, than the Manufacturer's own Design Engineer(s).

Many a Jury fell for that tactic.

Jus sayin...

vfin
 
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Vfin, someone that just reasonably changes a buttstock, gas block and a handguard on their rifle is very unlikely to undergo such scrutiny as may be the plight of someone that installs a bump-fire stock for automation or a bayonet attachment or a flare/grenade launcher to their rifle. And even so, folks that post statements on social media/message boards like "For BadGuy Territory ... 51 rds of firepower ... yeah baby" or "I'm still trying to figure out a way to conceal carry my M&P10!!!" are much more likely to be perceived as "Gun Crazy" or someone that's out in public looking for or to make trouble than the defending homeowner with a trigger job and flashlight mounted on his side arm.
 
I am gun crazy apiccola, there's no denying it, however, bragging about a weapon's capability & mechanically modifying weapons (excluding cosmetics) is yet another matter.

Remember, I'm just offering my opinion (for what it may be worth), and you know what they say about opinions.

vfin
 
apiccola,

Just wanted to let you know and other supporting members that today I shot over 100 rounds without a single malfunction, bolt locks back after last round each time running like a champ. The problem was indeed the gas rings and I should have addressed it prior but never knew it would lead to this, anyhow in conclusion and reply to 'vfin' my "dilemma" would have been forthcoming regardless whether or not I modified my rifle and it is disappointing that S&W would ship a brand new rifle with worn-out bolt rings. Again thank you for your support, now I am thinking of changing the buffer and spring and see what kind of trouble that will get me in.. :D

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p10-rifles/346639-replacing-bolt-gas-rings.html
 

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apiccola,

Yes stock spring and buffer and the buttstock is magpul CTR, the smith referred to the buffer as not being an AR10 buffer, he even showed me one from another make half the size but I recall seeing the M&P10 buffer in other pics and it shows similar to AR15 in length. Prior to the troy low profile block I had zero issues with same set-up.

Your smith just isn't familiar with the M&P10 ! He is talking about a DPMS style 308 carbine. The buffer on them is shorter than it is on the M&P10. However, he is correct in his assessment: The M&P10 is designed & sold with a standard ar-15 buffer. Be aware that the buffer tube and buffer spring are longer than an ar-15 tube and spring. Basically, the M&P10 uses an Armalite style recoil system, not the usual DPMS style recoil system. (It's actually better, If you need them, there are a lot more different weights of buffers available for the AR-15 system than there are for the DPMS LR10 system; and they are much cheaper to buy.) And oh, congratulations on you successful fix of the "dilemma". Keep us informed when you mod the buffer & spring. I'm contemplating that one myself. My rifle is very accurate & reliable, but seems to be beating my brass up so badly that it can't be reloaded. I just don't know what weight buffer it will take to solve the issue. I'll probably try the ole' addin' the fishin' weights mod to one of my cheap buffers first, so I get an idea of how much its gonna take, then buy the appropriate harder alloy buffer.
 
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Looks like that UBR stock fits nice and snug. Great work on your rifle. Looking forward to the range report.
 
No issues with mine. Love it! Have only added a Nikon M-308 BDC scope. I am going to instal a Apex Handguard (2550 308 DPMS 9.18" Mid Length Apex GatorGrip Handguard). That way I can use the stock gas block and still have a full float.
 
Sonny, what parts did you use to get the UBR staock on your M&P-10?
 
apiccola,

Thank you, I learn from the best (you), range day will be following.

MistWolf: Everything you need is included with the stock:
https://store.magpul.com/product/MAG330/86, hence the cost but IMO given the quality and engineering that went into it I can see why. Few things to note: It's heavy about 1.63 lb, less than the PRS 1.90 lb but in comparison with the rest of Magpul line, on the flip side it balances the M&P 10 perfectly from its nose heavy configuration. The only thing you will need is a buffer and spring, the current configuration is too long for the receiver, I went the JP way and it fits and the bolt cycles, only range time will tell if it functions 100% with all loads.
JP Rifles
OR you can stick with traditional buffer and spring and use the following which was recommended to me by Magpul:
Slash's Heavy Buffers | Products
on the cheap I think you can use DMPS buffer and spring, although I was told M&P 10 standard spring will work as well.
Carbine Buffer | Brownells

Researching triggers now ...where's my tax return :D
 
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That JP buffer may be your problem. If it offers too much buffer weight or too much spring rate, it will cause short stroking. Did you have problems before installing the UBR? Is the length of the JP spring compatible with the length & travel of the M&P-10 bolt? If the bolt is too long, it will short stroke. If it's too short, it will hit against the upper. I bring this up because it says the JP spring is compatible with the DPMS bolt length & travel and I don't know if it's the same or not as the big Smith.

I really like the UBR stock. It's comfortable and almost as durable as a rock.
DSC_0015.jpg

But it's expensive and heavy and my Big Smith with the CTR, scope and fully loaded 20 round mag already weighs in at 11lbs 14 ozs
DSC_0024_zps7559c666.jpg


For myself, I'm thinking of trying the MagPul MOE fixed carbine stock. It should give a better cheekweld than the CTR and is lighter & less expensive than the UBR
 
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The JP captured spring seemed to have worked with other members in this forum used with Magpul PRS and supplied spacer for rifle length and I have also spoken to a JP rep (I swear it was John Paul himself) who is familiar with the M&P 10 configuration which is similar to the Armalite AR-10 receiver and assured me it will work and if not it is fully refundable.
As for the Magpul MOE fixed stock, save your money ... I tried that first (see picture), its too light, no cheek support... the CTR offers more in that area, and exaggerates recoil because it's too light. I would not recommend it for AR-10 type more so for lighter AR-15.
 

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