Jerryatric3
US Veteran
Reading one of the cast bullet manufacturers recommendations and they say "never" flare the case mouth when loading cast bullets. Have always done it and wondering what others do??
No flare for cast bullets?
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mkk41
US Veteran
I always give a slight flare or bell. Ever so slight , just over bullet dia so there is no shaving of lead when seating the bullet. Some say with a progressive press and bevel-based bullets , it's not necessary. OK , they can do whatever they want.
But I use mostly flat based or gas-checked. Another reason I keep my handgun brass trimmed. And IU always trim new brass .005 under nominal.
But I use mostly flat based or gas-checked. Another reason I keep my handgun brass trimmed. And IU always trim new brass .005 under nominal.
cbrobertson
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I slightly flare ALL handgun brass. Ever so slightly, but ALL flared non-the-less. Have always done so since first reloading in 1965.
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Jerryatric3
US Veteran
I'm with you but the bullet manufacturer is saying that the bell or flare is what causes lead shaving?? Also says there is only one die manufacturer that makes the proper die for cast bullets? "Your dies shall NOT damage them! Do not flare the case mouths for cast bullet reloading - you will damage them by shaving the shanks of the bullets."
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Pisgah
Member
What can I say, except -- In my opinion, they are wrong. The mouth of a properly-sized case is smaller in diameter than the bullet. Unless that cast bullet has a base with a heckuva bevel on it, it ain't going in.
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Nframecollector
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They're wrong!
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Jerryatric3
US Veteran
Believe that is the die Dardas says you have to use. Just can't believe, if it's the only way to do it right, that Dillon and others still flare the cases….
mkk41
US Veteran
I have seen some novices flare their cases to the point they look like a blunderbuss! 
The M die expands the case and flares the top. If a mfg somehow thinks it isn't flared but has another name for it, it isn't the name of the action that Lyman calls it.
bedbugbilly
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Just curious - the mfg. who is saying this and that there is "only one die" for cast bullets doesn't by chance have an "interest" or is a "subsidiary" of the die company are they? Just saying . . . .
With a flat base cast, I don't see how you could get away without a little flair . . .
With a flat base cast, I don't see how you could get away without a little flair . . .
Rpg
Member
I've used h&g cast 200 gr SWC in my 45acp since 1979.
They have a bevel (I think that's the term) on the base, so no bell is necessary on the case.
I've lost count of how many reloads I get per case: I can only say I can't remember when I've seen a cracked case mouth.
They have a bevel (I think that's the term) on the base, so no bell is necessary on the case.
I've lost count of how many reloads I get per case: I can only say I can't remember when I've seen a cracked case mouth.
I have always flared my cases ever so slightly so as not to shave lead as mentioned above when seating the bullet. The bullet molds I have and have used for so long don't have a bevel like some we see in mass production now. I have loaded Missouri bullets with the bevel at the base in several calibers and I still flare the case like I always have. With that bevel at the base I can see where they might not think that case flaring is necessary but I disagree with them.
I think instead of a 'bevel'....
I think instead of a 'bevel', that would be more of a 'taper'.
I think instead of a 'bevel', that would be more of a 'taper'.
They go on to say "Use a Lyman M-Die" which is a type of flare in itself. Much better for lead bullets in my opinion but others are not enamored with them.
I've loaded accurate ammo with the flare provided by Dillon powder funnels and made very accurate ammo. I have custom made M-style funnels now and feel they make it easier to produce consistently accurate ammo.
fredj338
Member
If you don't, you are maybe 90% likely to knick the base of the bullet, not good for accuracy. This can even happen w/ a bevel base lead bullet. Always flare the case mouth, even with jacketed handgun. It harms nothing & makes reloading soooo much easier. Lyman even sells a special 'M' die for loading lead bullets in rifles so you can flare the case mouth. Must be a reason for that???
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Been re-loading for 35 years now and I have ALWAYS used a slight flare in every case I reload. I do NOT use an excessive flair because the more you keep bending the brass back and forth the less longevity it will have. Only a small (slight) flare is necessary for the bullet to seat correctly.
I would think that if NO flare were used the bullets would tend to be shaved by the cartridge case and start into the case cock-eyed.
I would think that if NO flare were used the bullets would tend to be shaved by the cartridge case and start into the case cock-eyed.
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dickttx
Member
Even more likely with not flair is that you would crunch a lot of brass.
SickMick
Member
Before everyone totally freaks out....it might be a good idea to actually read what the bullet manufacturer stated. This is copied from what I believe is the "manufacturer in question" website:
"It is imperative that you understand that cast bullets are a world apart from jacketed bullets - they are NOT the same! The reloading process for cast bullets MUST NOT in anyway, shape, or form, alter, damage or destroy the cast bullet! It is like comparing rocks to bananas - hard vs. soft. Your cast bullets fall into the 'soft' category. They are to be treated with tender loving care! Your dies shall NOT damage them! Do not flare the case mouths for cast bullet reloading - you will damage them by shaving the shanks of the bullets. If you don't believe me, take a magnifying loop and look very closely at the reloaded cast bullet cartridge and you will see shavings that are deposited on the edge of the case mouth about 180 degrees around the mouth. Why is this you ask? It is because you are shaving the bullets as they are being seated. The bullet rotates on top of the radius edge that you created by flaring the case mouth. You then have to hope and pray that the seater stem will capture the nose of the bullet and re-right it to make it straight with the case - it isn't going happen! Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets! You MUST use the correct technique for preparing the case mouths to receive cast bullets without damaging them. And that is with the use of the Lyman 2 Step M Expander Die. This die imparts a 2 step I.D. into the case mouth. It creates a slip fit nest for the bullet to slide into. Thus preventing and eliminating the tipping of the bullet and the premature closure of the case mouth onto the bullet during the seating operation. Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly. And this is due to the 2 Step M die that is incorporated into their 4 die sets. It is also imperative that you understand the critical nature of the seater stem in your seater die! Make absolutely certain that the seater stem is engaging the ogive of the bullet about half way down from the tip. And that the tip is not contacting the seater stem! This is critical for straight bullet alignment (preventing shaving the bullet) during the seating operation. Cast bullet reloading is entirely different than jacketed bullet reloading - understand this and you are on your way to a very successful career with cast bullet reloading and shooting!"
He makes some valid points and obviously must have a little experience with the use of his product. You can use the information provided, or not. It's up to you. If you are happy with the results you are getting and not concerned that just maybe it could be a little better.....don't worry about reading it.
dardas cast bullets
"It is imperative that you understand that cast bullets are a world apart from jacketed bullets - they are NOT the same! The reloading process for cast bullets MUST NOT in anyway, shape, or form, alter, damage or destroy the cast bullet! It is like comparing rocks to bananas - hard vs. soft. Your cast bullets fall into the 'soft' category. They are to be treated with tender loving care! Your dies shall NOT damage them! Do not flare the case mouths for cast bullet reloading - you will damage them by shaving the shanks of the bullets. If you don't believe me, take a magnifying loop and look very closely at the reloaded cast bullet cartridge and you will see shavings that are deposited on the edge of the case mouth about 180 degrees around the mouth. Why is this you ask? It is because you are shaving the bullets as they are being seated. The bullet rotates on top of the radius edge that you created by flaring the case mouth. You then have to hope and pray that the seater stem will capture the nose of the bullet and re-right it to make it straight with the case - it isn't going happen! Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets! You MUST use the correct technique for preparing the case mouths to receive cast bullets without damaging them. And that is with the use of the Lyman 2 Step M Expander Die. This die imparts a 2 step I.D. into the case mouth. It creates a slip fit nest for the bullet to slide into. Thus preventing and eliminating the tipping of the bullet and the premature closure of the case mouth onto the bullet during the seating operation. Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly. And this is due to the 2 Step M die that is incorporated into their 4 die sets. It is also imperative that you understand the critical nature of the seater stem in your seater die! Make absolutely certain that the seater stem is engaging the ogive of the bullet about half way down from the tip. And that the tip is not contacting the seater stem! This is critical for straight bullet alignment (preventing shaving the bullet) during the seating operation. Cast bullet reloading is entirely different than jacketed bullet reloading - understand this and you are on your way to a very successful career with cast bullet reloading and shooting!"
He makes some valid points and obviously must have a little experience with the use of his product. You can use the information provided, or not. It's up to you. If you are happy with the results you are getting and not concerned that just maybe it could be a little better.....don't worry about reading it.
dardas cast bullets
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Jerryatric3
US Veteran
That is the source I was referring to. Had never heard this before and wondered if I've been doing it wrong all these years? Just thinking this is a pretty powerful statement from Dardas -- "Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly". Are the Lyman dies really better than the Dillons I'm using??
