Comrad
Member
What have they done for us in NJ?
Non NRA friends
- Thread starter zzzippper
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coltle6920
Member
The individual States have done more damage to the rights of gunowners than anything the Feds have attempted.I don't see anything the NRA did to try and prevent the newly enacted gun laws in Colorado.It was grassroots from start to finish.Two people recalled and one resigned!
The problems in Washington start in the States.If the right people are elected at the State level they will have the backbone to stand up against the Feds.Every post in the 2nd Amendment forum is about things being done on the State level.
While the 2nd Amendment is an issue with many here it shouldn't necessarily be at the top of one's list.That battle will surely be fought fiercely should the time come.Meanwhile over the last 10-15yrs the U.S. has severely declined in all aspects of life.
Your right to own firearms isn't the only freedom being attacked.If you prefer to live inside a box and can't think outside it then you deserve more than your guns taken away.
Gun restrictions are but a small fraction of the way we are being duped by our elected officials.
This is my opinion on things and while I respect the opinions of others my opinion is what it is.I don't care if anyone agrees or not.
The problems in Washington start in the States.If the right people are elected at the State level they will have the backbone to stand up against the Feds.Every post in the 2nd Amendment forum is about things being done on the State level.
While the 2nd Amendment is an issue with many here it shouldn't necessarily be at the top of one's list.That battle will surely be fought fiercely should the time come.Meanwhile over the last 10-15yrs the U.S. has severely declined in all aspects of life.
Your right to own firearms isn't the only freedom being attacked.If you prefer to live inside a box and can't think outside it then you deserve more than your guns taken away.
Gun restrictions are but a small fraction of the way we are being duped by our elected officials.
This is my opinion on things and while I respect the opinions of others my opinion is what it is.I don't care if anyone agrees or not.
Sure it should inasmuch as Constitutional rights are concerned. After all, every other right and freedom we enjoy stems from the 2nd Amendment which grants us the ability to resist tyranny, or those who would deny us those rights and freedoms. You're not going to effectively oppose anything or anyone as a disarmed subject, that's for sure.
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Biginge
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Boys, I belong to the NRA, have for many years. Do I agree with everything they do? Certainly not. I don't agree with everthing my Church does either. But I still think both institutions have "my best interest at heart." And in both cases we are sharing a "common ground and interest."
Think I'll just leave it at that.
Think I'll just leave it at that.
Human beings are very complicated, no one is all good, all bad, all right or all wrong. One thing I have learned is that you can't tell other people what to think or what to do. I try not to be judgmental. It's not my job to tell others what to think or do.
I base my opinion and choose my friends and decide who to avoid by the way the treat me, the way they treat others, the way they treat animals, their honesty, their sense of humor, and their value system.
I don't make any decisions or for any opinions based on color, religion, politics, favorite color or shoe size.
I know that all sounds mighty high falutin but it is how I TRY to be. Not always successful but always tryin'.
I base my opinion and choose my friends and decide who to avoid by the way the treat me, the way they treat others, the way they treat animals, their honesty, their sense of humor, and their value system.
I don't make any decisions or for any opinions based on color, religion, politics, favorite color or shoe size.
I know that all sounds mighty high falutin but it is how I TRY to be. Not always successful but always tryin'.
I don't like hard core evangelism, not for my church and not for the NRA. I've never known it to work in either case.
Several years ago I was a member of a church that would send "evangelists" door to door. We would knock on your door and literally tell you "Come to Jesus or go to Hell." In all the years I did that I never saw a single person added to the church.
I have a coworker who used to give me pretty much the same spiel about the NRA. In fact he once actually told me that any gun owner who wasn't a member was a blood sucking leech on the backs of NRA members. If I wasn't a member that sure wasn't going to get me to join.
I spread the word about the NRA (when I do) the same way I spread The Word.
I'm honest about what I believe and I'm honest about where I stand. If my friends ask questions I answer them and if I get the chance I invite them to church or the range whichever is appropriate
Several years ago I was a member of a church that would send "evangelists" door to door. We would knock on your door and literally tell you "Come to Jesus or go to Hell." In all the years I did that I never saw a single person added to the church.
I have a coworker who used to give me pretty much the same spiel about the NRA. In fact he once actually told me that any gun owner who wasn't a member was a blood sucking leech on the backs of NRA members. If I wasn't a member that sure wasn't going to get me to join.
I spread the word about the NRA (when I do) the same way I spread The Word.
I'm honest about what I believe and I'm honest about where I stand. If my friends ask questions I answer them and if I get the chance I invite them to church or the range whichever is appropriate
ChattanoogaPhil
Member
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coltle6920
Member
If all freedoms stem from the 2nd Amendment and it was that important (as you suggest) then why wasn't it written as the 1st Amendment.
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd? We have no knock raids on innocent people.Probable cause is subjective to the whim of the LEO.Roadblocks set up randomly for DUI checkpoints without probable cause to an individual.
How is the 10th Amendement protected by the 2nd? It seems that everyday the Federal Gov't has enacted a law or given itself the power to do things that were never given to it by the States.
The 2nd Amendment is a right that wasn't given to us by the Gov't and can't be taken away by the same.By the same token the 2nd Amendment provides a path that should only be used in extreme circumstances.The path to control of an overbearing Gov't system starts with the citizen at the state level.You control the States you will then control the Feds.
Lots of folks will strive hard to find some way .... any way they can .... to justify not spending money; even $25.00.
Gun owners not joining the NRA are similar to those "interested in politics" who don't vote.
Gun owners not joining the NRA are similar to those "interested in politics" who don't vote.
That's where you are mistaken my friend. I've been a strong supporter of the Gun Owners Of America for ever and contact my representatives through their program on a regular basis. Just my feelings about the NRA OK? I reluctantly joined back up with them about a year ago why I don't know. The NRA has thrown us under the bus in the past through several political causes etc. Lastly I don't like being badgered with junk mail once or twice a week trying to suck me in to this that or the other and offer me some darn prize. Lastly awhile back ( too much whisky one night I guess) I signed my neighbor up and paid his dues some how. Didn't know it till he told me.Anyway I don't want to get kicked off the forum for running my mouth about the NRA except to say I rate them up there with the AARP crowd for constantly wanting to cram stuff down your throat all the time. Believe I'll hang with the GOA thank you! Popper
The Bill of Rights isn't enumerated in order of importance.
Were the 4th to become violated, by determined tyrants, to a point where citizens, en masse, have finally had enough, those citizens' power to put an end to the abuse is ultimately only going to come from the barrel of a gun (or many guns, actually), as Mao would explain.
See reply above.
Arguing inalienable or God-given rights vs. government-afforded ones is beyond the scope of the discussion. A red herring, in other words.
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I can see why people....
I can see why people don't join organizations, including the NRA. Making myself part of a group is hard for me. There have been people on this forum that announced that they were quitting for some reason or other. In the case of the NRA though, I consider it vital to my rights to support anti-anti-gunners. There are also other ways to contribute to the cause, voting being one. Fortunately in this case, I have NEVER been as polarized on an issue as I have this. I'm one of those guys that can see many sides to anything. But that went out the window when people that didn't know squat about guns or shooting, lumped all gun owners into a public menace.
I can see why people don't join organizations, including the NRA. Making myself part of a group is hard for me. There have been people on this forum that announced that they were quitting for some reason or other. In the case of the NRA though, I consider it vital to my rights to support anti-anti-gunners. There are also other ways to contribute to the cause, voting being one. Fortunately in this case, I have NEVER been as polarized on an issue as I have this. I'm one of those guys that can see many sides to anything. But that went out the window when people that didn't know squat about guns or shooting, lumped all gun owners into a public menace.
Me too. I am not a "joiner." The only entities I am a member of and support monetarily are Lebanon Baptist Church and NRA.
You know what? I don't care much for the "you're either for us or against us" mindset that manifests whenever this particular subject comes up. I have my own personal reasons for not joining the NRA, among which are how they continue to defend caged pigeon shoots in my home state of PA and also how they came pretty close to derailing DC vs. Heller because they didn't like how Attorney Alan Gura was stealing their thunder. To loosely paraphrase Dean Speir, they may be the "800 pound gorilla" in the arena of lobbying for the 2nd Amendment, but they also proved they can be the most jealous simian in the game.
Do not even get me started on the implication, whether intentional or not, that anyone who does not contribute financially to this board is a "freeloader."
I'm sorry to say that not all of us are swimming in disposable income. I try to "give back" whenever possible in the form of knowledge, sharing experiences, or making people laugh.
I'm sorry to have to say all this, but it needed to be said in the most polite and civil way possible without diluting the message. I apologize in advance if this post is perceived as inflammatory, but I do not appreciate the attitudes that I perceive from some of the contributions to this thread.
Do not even get me started on the implication, whether intentional or not, that anyone who does not contribute financially to this board is a "freeloader."
I'm sorry to say that not all of us are swimming in disposable income. I try to "give back" whenever possible in the form of knowledge, sharing experiences, or making people laugh.I'm sorry to have to say all this, but it needed to be said in the most polite and civil way possible without diluting the message. I apologize in advance if this post is perceived as inflammatory, but I do not appreciate the attitudes that I perceive from some of the contributions to this thread.
coltle6920
Member
Quote:
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd?
Were the 4th to become violated, by determined tyrants, to a point where citizens, en masse, have finally had enough, those citizens' power to put an end to the abuse is ultimately only going to come from the barrel of a gun (or many guns, actually), as Mao would explain.
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd? We have no knock raids on innocent people.Probable cause is subjective to the whim of the LEO.Roadblocks set up randomly for DUI checkpoints without probable cause to an individual.
How much more does the 4th Amendment have to be trampled on before your 2nd Amendment kicks in??????
How is the 10th Amendement protected by the 2nd? It seems that everyday the Federal Gov't has enacted a law or given itself the power to do things that were never given to it by the States.
How much longer do we have to endure the Gov't overstepping it's reach before your 2nd Amendment kicks in????
They might have kicked a little dirt on your 2nd Amendment but the rest of our rights have been trampled on beyond recognition.If you can't argue the entire context of my post then don't cherrypick my words.
Frankly I don't think some of you gunclingers would have the spine to back up the 2nd Amendment for anything other than gun confiscation.Our forefathers certainly wouldn't have tolerated things as long as we have.
I am not an NRA member for my own reasons.Even if I was I wouldn't put the emblem up next to my handle.I don't need the approval of the membership here nor do I like the assumptions made that we are not part of the solution because we don't advertise what we stand for.
Bash on all you want...I'm done here.
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd?
Were the 4th to become violated, by determined tyrants, to a point where citizens, en masse, have finally had enough, those citizens' power to put an end to the abuse is ultimately only going to come from the barrel of a gun (or many guns, actually), as Mao would explain.
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd? We have no knock raids on innocent people.Probable cause is subjective to the whim of the LEO.Roadblocks set up randomly for DUI checkpoints without probable cause to an individual.
How much more does the 4th Amendment have to be trampled on before your 2nd Amendment kicks in??????
How is the 10th Amendement protected by the 2nd? It seems that everyday the Federal Gov't has enacted a law or given itself the power to do things that were never given to it by the States.
How much longer do we have to endure the Gov't overstepping it's reach before your 2nd Amendment kicks in????
They might have kicked a little dirt on your 2nd Amendment but the rest of our rights have been trampled on beyond recognition.If you can't argue the entire context of my post then don't cherrypick my words.
Frankly I don't think some of you gunclingers would have the spine to back up the 2nd Amendment for anything other than gun confiscation.Our forefathers certainly wouldn't have tolerated things as long as we have.
I am not an NRA member for my own reasons.Even if I was I wouldn't put the emblem up next to my handle.I don't need the approval of the membership here nor do I like the assumptions made that we are not part of the solution because we don't advertise what we stand for.
Bash on all you want...I'm done here.
Harleystoo
Member
Divide and conquer.
The simple fact that there are 300 million gun owners and only 4 million NRA members is fodder used against us.
The simple fact that there are 300 million gun owners and only 4 million NRA members is fodder used against us.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I get your point, but these numbers have to be exaggerated.
There are only about 320 million people living in the US. That includes all the anti-gun people and children under the age of 18. So it seems unlikely that there are 300 million gun owners. Maybe you meant 300 million guns?
The D.C. court just ruled that the D.C. ban on concealed carry and self-protection outside your home is unconstitutional.
Wonder how that would have gone without the influence of the NRA and similar organizations.
Wonder how that would have gone without the influence of the NRA and similar organizations.
Just fine, I would imagine. Notice what it says in the final paragraph of the story on Alan Gura's blog?
"My deepest thanks to the Second Amendment Foundation for making this victory possible and to my clients for hanging in there. Congratulations Americans, your capital is not a constitution-free zone."
No mention of the NRA whatsoever. Hmmm...
Nope . . .
Nothing, if that's the way you want to go about it. I belonged to the same union for 30 years and was an officer in that union for 10. I know how these organizations work and don't work for you. You don't need them. They can't do anything that you can't do yourself when you vote.
I'll just leave it at that.
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SAF focuses on promoting the RKBA thru the judicial process while the NRA-ILA focuses on legislative approaches. As gun owners, we need both.
I don't look at it as a zero sum game, as gun owners we can - and should - support both organizations.
I say if you do NOT belong to the NRA or to another national gun rights organization or progun hunting group and do NOT belong to you State gun rights group you are a freeloader and hypocrite.
Why bother owning a gun.
My own brother did NOT even KNOW the NY Safe act had passed even though I told him and warned him. He did not know many guns were banned and he was limited to 7 rounds.
I would guess half of NY gun owners were completely unaware of the bill until it was too late.
Some still don't know...
Frankly if you are NOT all in you are worse than the Anti-gun people if you own a gun. You are not pulling your weight.
Why bother owning a gun.
My own brother did NOT even KNOW the NY Safe act had passed even though I told him and warned him. He did not know many guns were banned and he was limited to 7 rounds.
I would guess half of NY gun owners were completely unaware of the bill until it was too late.
Some still don't know...
Frankly if you are NOT all in you are worse than the Anti-gun people if you own a gun. You are not pulling your weight.
Large numbers of people have more clout.
These organizations also can inform and awaken and mobilize the lazy and uninformed.
bgrone
Member
How it would have gone w/o NRA
Well here is some food for thought; the decision you just referenced was won by Alan Gura the same atty. who won Heller v DC, the same atty whom the NRA tried to stop from filing Heller v DC. so the NRA deserves no thanks for this decision. After failing to dissuade Gura from filing the NRA tried to derail his action by lobbying congress to override the DC city council. If this had been successful the residents of DC would have benefitted but there would have been no basis for Gura's suit and the rest of the US would not have the benefit of the the Heller decision which tilts the the interpretation of the second amendment in favor of personal defense considerations versus the "state militia" interpretation used by anti-gun advocates to deny personal possession of fire arms under the aegis of 2A.
For details read 'Gunfight:The Battle over the Right to Bear arms in America" by Adam Winkler. It is a well researched account of the process of a SCOTUS filing, it is written in a non-partisan manner and also details the history on gun control from the time of the Revolutionary War to present day.
Jim in Iowa
Well here is some food for thought; the decision you just referenced was won by Alan Gura the same atty. who won Heller v DC, the same atty whom the NRA tried to stop from filing Heller v DC. so the NRA deserves no thanks for this decision. After failing to dissuade Gura from filing the NRA tried to derail his action by lobbying congress to override the DC city council. If this had been successful the residents of DC would have benefitted but there would have been no basis for Gura's suit and the rest of the US would not have the benefit of the the Heller decision which tilts the the interpretation of the second amendment in favor of personal defense considerations versus the "state militia" interpretation used by anti-gun advocates to deny personal possession of fire arms under the aegis of 2A.
For details read 'Gunfight:The Battle over the Right to Bear arms in America" by Adam Winkler. It is a well researched account of the process of a SCOTUS filing, it is written in a non-partisan manner and also details the history on gun control from the time of the Revolutionary War to present day.
Jim in Iowa
Quote:
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd?
Were the 4th to become violated, by determined tyrants, to a point where citizens, en masse, have finally had enough, those citizens' power to put an end to the abuse is ultimately only going to come from the barrel of a gun (or many guns, actually), as Mao would explain.
How is the 4th Amendment protected by the 2nd? We have no knock raids on innocent people.Probable cause is subjective to the whim of the LEO.Roadblocks set up randomly for DUI checkpoints without probable cause to an individual.
How much more does the 4th Amendment have to be trampled on before your 2nd Amendment kicks in??????
How is the 10th Amendement protected by the 2nd? It seems that everyday the Federal Gov't has enacted a law or given itself the power to do things that were never given to it by the States.
How much longer do we have to endure the Gov't overstepping it's reach before your 2nd Amendment kicks in????
They might have kicked a little dirt on your 2nd Amendment but the rest of our rights have been trampled on beyond recognition.If you can't argue the entire context of my post then don't cherrypick my words.
Frankly I don't think some of you gunclingers would have the spine to back up the 2nd Amendment for anything other than gun confiscation.Our forefathers certainly wouldn't have tolerated things as long as we have.
I am not an NRA member for my own reasons.Even if I was I wouldn't put the emblem up next to my handle.I don't need the approval of the membership here nor do I like the assumptions made that we are not part of the solution because we don't advertise what we stand for.
Assuming you're referring to the debate and not the forum, that's probably best. With poor formatting and unreadable yellow text, I can't make heads or tails as to what you're even trying to say anymore. I suppose it's not important anyway. When someone resorts to phrases like "your 2nd Amendment", as if you find it distasteful or unimportant, and derogatory terms like "gunclingers" to refer to 2A proponents, something straight out of the gun-grabbers' playbook, it tells us where you stand and there's really no point in trying to educate you further.
Edmo
US Veteran
I'm a Life Member of the NRA, but fully understand if others don't want to join.
Supporting individual freedoms and the Constitution were two reasons I spent 21 years in the USAF.
Edmo
Supporting individual freedoms and the Constitution were two reasons I spent 21 years in the USAF.
Edmo
Debates are healthy. Fist fights rarely solve anything. Lets keep this civil folks... Thank you.
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