Nonlethal weapons

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I have a 21" ASP baton with one of those 1/2 of an 8 Ball ends on it. This thing has saved me a couple of times.
One night I hit a drunk with a broken beer bottle on his fingernails with the small steel ball end of the baton, he dropped the broken bottle and went to his knees sobbing like a baby. It helped that it was a cold night and I bet his finger tips really hurt from a hit like that.
Another time I used the 1/2 of an 8 Ball end to rap a guy on the back of his elbow and made him let go of the woman he was trying to drag away with him.
I bet he had pins and needles in his entire arm for 30 minutes as his face turned white as a ghost when I tapped his not so funny bone with it.
I bought my daughter a heavy duty plastic kubotan for her keychain, when she was showing me how to use it, she took me down to my knees pretty quick with the end of it pressed into my thmb and wrist joint.
 
I am not too enthralled with either device.

The local police department has given up on pepper spray. Found it to be ineffective too many times.

How does the Taser work on multiple attackers? Well, it doesn't.

As the article says "A firearm trumps each of these devices and is undoubtedly the most effective and combat-proven personal defense weapon."
 
If I need a nonlethal weapon I will pick up a stick, or anything handy at the time. Otherwise I am going to use my M&P 40, 340pd, or Busse Combat Skinny ASH-1.
 
Originally posted by LtColSpevak1911:
I'm only 15 so I carry a knife. (Unless I'm camping)
Tell ya what, **** head, I've seen enough from you.
 
I work in the tooling industry and often have a 10" adjustable wrench in a pants pocket. I carry it as a tool, but it would make an ideal impact weapon. I will say that I don't like knives as weapons. There is only one way to use a knife on someone and that's to open them up. Giving an opponent a charlie horse with an impact weapon and running is likely to be much less messy legally and physically than knifing them.
 
After several deaths, the industry has dropped the "non-lethal" term in favor of "less-lethal."

You can kill someone with pepper spray if they have respiratory problems.
(or get stomped because they are too hopped up to notice the pepper spray)
 
Originally posted by OKFC05:
After several deaths, the industry has dropped the "non-lethal" term in favor of "less-lethal."

You can kill someone with pepper spray if they have respiratory problems.
(or get stomped because they are too hopped up to notice the pepper spray)

I have severe respiratory problems, and a "practical" joke damn near killed me.

One of the idiots I worked with sprayed pepperspray under the bathroom door.

I was NOT the target, but didn't know about it.

A little while later I entered the bathroom, sat down and proceeded with "buisness." A short time after, airways clogged, leaving me helplessly coughing and choking. Somehow, I managed to get my pants up and out, while still coughing and choking.

After I recovered, and got clued in on "THE JOKE,"I had a talk with the owner and the guilty party, explaining in GREAT DETAIL THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF ANOTHER similar"JOKE."
 
If all you rely on is a firearm, you remain unarmed for many confrontations. The phrase "yo, give it up" and a hand on the arm do not constitute a lethal threat. A layered defense will serve you much better in the long run.
 
I've carried OC for years as a deterrent against animal attacks. People tend to get upset if you have to shoot their dog, or even kick it. I've always used regular off the shelf cannisters, though I've a bit of a preference for MSI (owners of the "Mace" trademark) products.

The Tasers sold to non-LE/military users are somewhat gimped compared to the good models. The Discovery Channel "Fight Science" show also showed that someone could fight through the pain and still attack even after being Tased.

I avoid impact weapons because I lack documented training in their use, which could cause problems given that improper use turns them into a lethal weapon.
 
I don't and "Won't" carry any of the non-lethal weapons out on the Market simply because I don't want to have to try to explain to a Jury why I didn't use something besides one of my Side Arms. I do carry a pocket knife but I will swear to it in Court that the ONLY reason I carry is is as a "Tool" and not a weapon. And, I have passed a polygraph on that particular subject and do believe I could again.

Pretty Simple to me!
 
Originally posted by KKG:
I don't and "Won't" carry any of the non-lethal weapons out on the Market simply because I don't want to have to try to explain to a Jury why I didn't use something besides one of my Side Arms.
Your logic is impossible to understand.

Let's say a drunk starts to accost you. You can't really walk away because of your location.

What do you do now? Nothing? Kick his ass with your fists? Shoot him?

Remember, there is nothing in your toolbox other than going hand to hand (likely to get you charged with assault and battery) or deadly force.

You make no sense at all.
 
Wyatt, if I were president I would appoint you as our next ambassador to the U.N.
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Although an assignment as the U.S. ambassador to Venezuela would be worth considering.
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I am a Senior Citizen. That gives me a lot more latitude when it comes to self defense than the young guys do. Somebody here had a sig line that said: "Don't mess with an old man. If he can't fight, he'll just kill you." And that's exactly what will happen. I don't go looking for problems, and will just walk away. Don't even THINK of following me.
 
I've seen all three used and my personal opinion is the impact weapon would be my last choice. When working bad guys with a baton to try and get them forcibly handcuffed is one thing.

I'd say about half get meaner and now some of the younger punks that are into MMA stuff, well they don't react to pressure point attacks like most of us do. So for a civilian or off duty LEO I believe that if one was hung up on carrying a less lethal weapon, then I'd go for the taser or spray.

When off duty, my primary objective is to keep my family alive and/or innocent 3rd parties alive at all costs. So with that in mind, off duty, all I need or want is a firearm. Citizens and off duty LEO's who more than likely don't have their police radio are not in a position to try and 'control' a threat and make an apprehension. The objective is to create distance from the threat, ideally with the bad guy running away!
Under the federal definition of deadly force and at least in most states, a reasonable person needs to be in fear of their life or that serious bodily injury is likely to occur to themselves or a 3 party. In other words, you don't need to die or get your skull caved in before you pull the trigger to stop the threat and likewise you don’t need to watch someone repeatedly get kicked in the ribs and their skull stomped to stop the threat with deadly force.
As an off duty LEO or citizen, if I carried spray or taser, again, I've seen big dudes laugh off baton strikes from the hardest of hitters and little guys also. . . If I carried spray or a taser off duty, then I'd spray once, create distance because you are not trying to stick around and put this guy(s) in jail, you want to escape with your life and your family’s life!!! If that doesn't work then you will resort to the weapon anyways. . .
One problem I see and I've done this. . . is carrying a baton in my jeans pocket and O.C. in my coat pocket with my gun on is trying to deploy these tools quickly. Regardless another problem is that while you are spraying, sticking the taser to him, or beating him like a step child with an impact weapon, he might be curling up and drawing a gun on you the first opportunity. Now wasn’t that stupid to bring a baton or taser to a gun fight!!!
Now what? You are alone, or worse your family is nearby and you have no back up on the way, yet.. . .

So since this is an opinion thread, my 2 cents is keep the spray for dogs while jogging and otherwise leave the less than lethal stuff alone.

Oh and last but not least, I am not an attorney and did NOT sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.

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KKG - welcome home!

I understand what you are saying and fully agree with you. Makes perfect sense.
 
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