Open carry in TN for non recidents

[gregintenn]

Again, I know alot of officers will not take your weapon at all. I strictly take it to check it to see of it is stolen.


Now, if you are having problems processing this, and can't try and imagine, say you were responsible for a town of people. You are out and come across some guy you have nevr seen. You are saying Hejaz a weapon you wouldn't feel like you need to be aware of that? If this is true and you don't feel you need to be aware of it then NEVER become any type of LE or millitary. You probably would not make it. Someone would take advantage of your trust and you would not make it home.

Like I said before, I don't expect everyone to understand, but no need in calling me a liar.

When al this economic stuff blows up and the government is gone and all that, I will be doing the same as ever other gun owner. Protecting my family and home.


J.Wal

Who informed you that you were responsible for an entire town? I assure you you aren't responsible in any way for my family or myself.
How many officers have been fired upon by valid CCW holders? I believe that if you feel the need to disarm a law abiding citizen, you should have the courtesy (yeah, that's how to spell courtesy) to disarm yourself as well.

 

[son-of-a-gun]

I believe that if you feel the need to disarm a law abiding citizen, you should have the courtesy (yeah, that's how to spell courtesy) to disarm yourself as well.

Sometimes when we get all wrapped up in these discussions trying to defend our positions we forget who the good guys really are!

 

[oldafsp]

Who informed you that you were responsible for an entire town? I assure you you aren't responsible in any way for my family or myself.
How many officers have been fired upon by valid CCW holders? I believe that if you feel the need to disarm a law abiding citizen, you should have the courtesy (yeah, that's how to spell courtesy) to disarm yourself as well.

This is the type of bashing that in my opinion,just doesn't cut it.

Try walking a mile in an officers shoes sometime.

I have disarmed licensed handgun carriers several times during my career. Why? It's really simple.

You did something that got my attention. Or somehow I just
got a strange feeling about you or what you were doing...something didn't click.

And as far as the statement about responsibility for a "whole" town...where did that come from?

When you are assigned a patrol area, zone or whatever..THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY. Police officers are supposed to be proactive, not just reactive.

Now, I take every indivduals 2nd Amendment rights very seriously. I truly believe each and everyone of us have the right to defend ourselves, family,property and any other person that cannot defend themselves against harm.

First me questioning you about being armed or having weapons in your possesion is MY legal right.

My desicion on disarming a "Law Abiding Citizen" is for my safety...and yours.

I don't know who you are, where you are coming to or from.
I have no personal knowledge of your mental state of mind at that particular moment.

In a state such as TN, where firearms are not registered, I am obligated to check weapons to insure that they are not stolen or have been used in the commission of a crime.

All of this is NOT a direct attack on you personally. Several of the responses on this thread elude to that.

Cooperating by telling the officer you are a permit holder and are armed is the first step in being a responsible citizen and gun owner in my book.

You are under no legal obligation to do so in many states. But that doesn't prevent you from being a nice person right from the start and making the officers day a bit easier.

And thats all I'm going to say about the subject.

 

[FTG-05]

Again, I know alot of officers will not take your weapon at all. I strictly take it to check it to see of it is stolen.

Guilty until proven innocent, just for exercising a right. Got it.


Now, if you are having problems processing this, and can't try and imagine, say you were responsible for a town of people. You are out and come across some guy you have nevr seen. You are saying Hejaz a weapon you wouldn't feel like you need to be aware of that? If this is true and you don't feel you need to be aware of it then NEVER become any type of LE or millitary. You probably would not make it. Someone would take advantage of your trust and you would not make it home.

Like another LEO said on another board, he assumes for all interactions that there is one more weapon than what he is carrying. That's what I would do and what I would feel and interact with the community I would sworn to protect, not assume that if they're armed, they must be treated like a criminal until proven innocent.

Like I said before, I don't expect everyone to understand, but no need in calling me a liar.

You yourself called yourself a liar with your own statements. I merely pointed it out.

When al this economic stuff blows up and the government is gone and all that, I will be doing the same as ever other gun owner. Protecting my family and home.


J.Wal

In bold, again above.

 

[FTG-05]

On statement you are referring to......

You are not breaking any laws by not telling a LE that you are armed, but you are putting them in a situation where it may appear you are possibly hiding something.

Either I'm breaking a law or I'm not. If I'm not, you have no business treating me like a criminal. When you decide that when someone does not inform you and then you find out, you decide to make up new laws and therefore punish those who do not cow tow or kneel before your almighty power trip.

It is taught in cow class,

(Not in my class it wasn't. In fact, he advised just the opposite not to inform unless asked or asked to step outside the vehicle (AL does not have duty to inform). The reason: Because of power trip cops turning a simple traffic stop into treating a LAC like a criminal.)

to advise officers of your weapon, as a pure courticy.

Courtesy is a two way street. You start off by treating me like a criminal just for being armed? Good luck with getting any courtesy whatsoever.

BTW, if "courtesy" was so important to you, how come you can't spell it???

By not telling a officer, and them seeing it on there own makes them think worst case scenario right off the bat. That is why a officer will respond in that way. It's not that we don't Like good citizens to be armed, we would just like to know so we can Handel it in a friendly way.

Absent some other cue or suspicion of a crime, how about you just leave us alone? If you didn't know a LAC was armed before, during or after, where is the harm?

If I decide to check someone's weapon that has a cow I am as polite and nice as i would want someone to check me or my grandmother. Even though I am LE, I still got a ccw and hand my DL and ccw ID when I get stopped. I also put both hands on the wheel and advise the officer I have a weapon, first thing as they are walking up. Let's them know. I am armed, I have a licens and I am not there to hurt them. At that point I have had officers take my weapon while they check my DL, ID and all that stuff. I am not offended. I have also. Had/ and myself responded by saying " thanks for letting me know" can I have your DL and HCW.

Do what you wish. There are no laws being broken. But police have a bad wrap somewhat because people do things that cause officers to respond in a protective way that is then taken as rude, or angry.

No, I get angry when I get treated like a common criminal by a power trip hungry cop who admits on a public forum of how they harass LAC because they are armed.

If people would do small things like this, just let them know you are armed, eases the situation. When someone tells me right away I know they are probably not out to do harm to me and are probably all legal.

If cops would get off their power trip and get rid of the "thin blue line", I'll then start worrying about their "feelings".

To me, and other LE it is a safety standard, like at any other job. There are things you want to know while at work before doing a job and every contact with a citizen is another chance a officer could get killed if not looking out for citizens and himself. I am not ashamed of how I greet citizens legally armed, I will do it every time because I know it keeps me going home to my family. If you can't respect that I am sorry. I am going to do everything I can to go home to my family..... As do you when you go to work, and as you are in the public armed protecting yourself, and family.


J.Wal

Once more, in bold.

 

[J.Wal]

I have been using Taptalk so the spelling is from my phone auto correct. Never noticed it

You must have had one or afew bad encounters with LE. Unfortunately it makes all LE look bad when someone goes trip happy on the public. The bad thing is its not that way. And I am sorry that me and my safety seem like a power trip to you.

My " feelings" are not hurt, just was hoping to be able to put my point of view out and maby someone see where LE are coming from. This could go on for days. Hopefully your encounters wig LE will get better, we are not all the same person so the majority are not on a power trip.


J.Wal

 

[woodsltc]

I have all the respect in the world for LEO's ... they perform a very dangerous and necessary service for the public. Some of my closest friends and hunting buddies are LEO's.

But as I read the comments of J. Walton something comes to mind when he refers to courtesy....and that is that courtesy is a "two-way steet"!!!!!!

I have no problem with letting an officer of the law know "up front" that I have a carry permit and have a weapon in my car or on my person.....what I would have a problem with would be if "with no probable cause" that officer commandeered my weapon, unloaded it, and checked to see if it was stolen... as Mr J. Walton says he does (again I stress with no probable cause)......that is NOT showing any courtesy to the law-abidding public. As I said courtesy is a TWO WAY STREET.

Mr Walton I notice you are in Millington, Tn ..... Millington is not Chicago. If you are going to practice gun grabbing ... take yourself to Chicago or New York City where it's a common practice.

 

[J.Wal]

I am not a Millington officer. I have not stated my department for other reasons. My opinions are not a representation of my department or any other officers.

I can say I have had 2 double homicides, several robbers and home invasions just in this month in the area I am responsible for at night.

I do not always remove a weapon, but it is a common practice. I would think it would be appreciated that weapons are checked for stolen. I have recovers stolen weapons from people with. I'd HGP. This is not common, but the weapon is returned to the rightful owner at the end.

I understand it's a two way street, that is why I always begin any enteraction with people as polite as the situation allows.

 

[redlevel]

Again, I know alot of officers will not take your weapon at all. I strictly take it to check it to see of it is stolen.


J.Wal

And what reasonable articulable suspicion do you have to suspect it was stolen?

Suppose you noticed I was wearing a $5000 Rolex watch? Would you check it "just to see if it is stolen?" You are in violation of the 4th Amendment if you run my revolver on NCIC to check for stolen if you do not have a reasonable suspicion that it is in fact stolen. Just as you would be if you chose to search my vehicle for stolen jewelry based on my possession of a $5000 Rolex.

I have as much respect for Law Enforcement as anyone, and probably a whole lot more than most. I expect Law Enforcement to have as much respect for me.

You have absolutely no right to disarm a law abiding citizen who is breaking no law.

Can you show me a citation in the Tennessee Code that says you have the authority to disarm a legally armed citizen? There might be one, but if so, it is probably unconstitutional.

 

[oldafsp]

You have absolutely no right to disarm a law abiding citizen who is breaking no law.

Can you show me a citation in the Tennessee Code that says you have the authority to disarm a legally armed citizen? There might be one, but if so, it is probably unconstitutional.

Tennessee Code Annotated
39-17-1351

(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.

 

[redlevel]

Thanks for the clarification. I suspected there might be such. I guess that puts Officer Walton in a better position as far as the law is concerned. I see nothing that gives the LEO the right to run the serial number. I still maintain that is an unconstitutional search, because the officer has absolutely no reason to believe the gun is stolen.

I'm glad I live in Georgia. Our State Supreme Court recently ruled that an officer does not have the right to disarm, and that possession of a firearm does not constitute reasonable suspicion to conduct a search. If I happen to be in Tennessee, I will surrender my firearm to an officer if he asks for it. In most circumstances, I will not inform an officer that I am armed unless he asks. There is too much chance for over-reaction by an overzealous officer.
Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)

 

[oldafsp]

Let me try and explain a bit.

Several of the posters on this thread seem to take high offense at the fact that an officer runs your weapon through
NCIC for stolen.Or even asks you to surrender it while being
interviewed.

In most cases, and I will only speak for myself on this. If all appears well, I probably would not run your weapon. If you came back clean and your permit is valid, I would send you on your way and thank you for your cooperation.

On the other hand, if:

I effect the interview(or traffic stop) in a known high crime area or area of recent criminal activity

Or my contact with you is the result of a complaint, or call that
I have to respond to

And involves any type of domestic trouble,loud music,alcohol,or other disturbance

Expect that I will, check the individual throughly, disarm them while I am interviewing them and check any found weapons through NCIC.

Not because I think your a criminal. Because in Tennesee, there are NO records of private firearms transactions. We are able to buy and sell guns without government intervention and the "keeping" of lists of who has what in their hands.

And, I like that part of it. But along with it comes weapons stolen in other states or areas, transferred through private sales that may have been used in the commission of a crime.

In 2009,one of our deputies made such a NCIC check on a permit holders handgun. The call was for neighbor trouble.
That weapon came back stolen in 2003 in Spanish Fort, AL.

Now, the man who possessed the weapon had bought it as a
private sale,advertised in the local paper. After than it was untraceable.

But, 3 days after he had taken the weapon into custody, we got a teletype from Montgomery, Al PD. They were looking for the same type of weapon, used in a double homicide in 2006.

We fired 2 rounds for ballistics tests and they sent a detective
to personally maintain the chain of evidence. And by the sheer luck of all of this, it was a match.

The end result was that in late 2010, they made an arrest in that case.They had a suspect, and eyewitnesses, but no weapon. Trial and conviction on 2nd Degree Murder. Not a happy ending, but an ending such as it is.

I understand that there are officers who overstep the reasonable bounds of their authority. And I do not and have not ever condoned that type of action.

I have been retired for almost a year now. And I enjoy my 2nd
Amendment rights and cherish them as much as anyone else.

I hope I have brought this forward in an understandable manner.

 

[redlevel]

Let me try and explain a bit.



I hope I have brought this forward in an understandable manner.

You have done a good job of presenting your position. I appreciate the non-confrontational tone. I am not trying to be confrontational either.

It is my belief that if you have no reasonable articulable suspicion, then anything that goes beyond maintaining control of the weapon during the stop as cited in the Code Section you quoted is unconstitutional. Just because I am driving through a high crime area doesn't necessarily equal reasonable suspicion, much less probable cause. If that were the case, an officer could run the serial number on any weapon a legally carrying citizen had in his possession in Bibb County, Georgia, for instance, or certainly within the 285 perimeter around Atlanta. I still maintain that if you run my serial number without a good reason, then you are in violation of the 4th amendment.

 

[J.Wal]

I haven not tried to come off in a bad way. As stated above, everything I have stated I do is legal. It all comes down to every individual situation. I work in a high crime area, one of the worst in the nation. It's not personal, just safety.

Sorry I upset so many people. If you had contact with me you would more than likely not be offended or upset after the event. I treat everyone as nice as they allow.


J.Wal

 

[gregintenn]

Suppose you noticed I was wearing a $5000 Rolex watch? Would you check it "just to see if it is stolen?"

I'd like to see an LEO address this. If the answer is no, then why is a gun different?

 

[redneckemt]

Fruit of the poisonous tree, might apply here. What basis did you have for running the Gun?

Wouldn't this be like just running licence plates to see what pops up?


But folks use common sence. If you have a gun where the Officer might see it tell them.


BUT... Cops have to ask to search your vehicle, they can use the Motor Vehicle Exception clause, but they have to have probable cause that there is contraband or evidence in the vehicle. It can get complicated.


Easiest way. Don't do something stupid that puts you in Contact with the Cops.


Oh and to the orignal Poster. Keep an eye on your car. Grundy County used to have a reputation as a major chop shop area. Oh and Meth.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

In a state such as TN, where firearms are not registered, I am obligated to check weapons to insure that they are not stolen or have been used in the commission of a crime.

I'm curious about this obligation that you refer. What type of an obligation is this?

 

[TNDixieGirl]

As a TN resident that has been stopped twice this year, I have found it is defintely not a common thing for an officer to disarm you and check the weapon for being stolen. The few officers I do know, and checked with, said they have NEVER run a serial number during a routine traffic stop. There had to be far more circumstances involved for them to go that far. I wasn't taught in CCW class to announce I'm a permit holder either. I was advised of the TN law, then told it was my choice whether to reveal or not.

Stop #1 - in a high crime area, at dark, roughly 5:30ish AM, Memphis (Nutbush).

Officer - Good morning, did you know you're speeding? May I see your license, registration and insurance?
Me - Yes sir (handed him my drivers license).
Officer - Are you a handgun permit holder?
Me - Yes sir.
Officer - Are you armed now?
Me - Yes sir

He went back to his vehicle, ran my license (which would also bring up my handgun permit since the numbers are identical). He then came back to my car, gave me license back, along with a speeding ticket, and wished me a good day. I was never even asked to present the handgun permit, he never asked me where the gun was located, didn't disarm and run the serial number, etc. That was the complete stop in a nutshell.

Stop #2 - High crime area, broad daylight, 7:15ish in the morning, Memphis (Frayser).

Officer - Good morning. Where are you headed in such a hurry?
Me - Work?
Officer - You were going 50 in a 35 zone. May I see your license?
Me - showed it to him
Officer - handed it back and told me to slow it down since school buses were hitting the streets and children would be out soon.

I was sent on my way with a friendly "slow it down". Didn't ask about a handgun permit, didn't run my license, in fact he never left my window during the whole stop.

I'm not "hiding" anything. If asked, you betcha I'll tell them I'm a carrying permit holder. If not asked, life goes on and we go our merry ways. No harm, no foul.

If you wish to announce before asked, fine and dandy. If you don't wish to announce until asked, fine and dandy. But there is absolutely no need to slam other people for their choice in how to handle their stop.

 

[redlevel]

I haven not tried to come off in a bad way. As stated above, everything I have stated I do is legal. It all comes down to every individual situation. I work in a high crime area, one of the worst in the nation. It's not personal, just safety.

Sorry I upset so many people. If you had contact with me you would more than likely not be offended or upset after the event. I treat everyone as nice as they allow.


J.Wal

I didn't think you came off particularly in a bad way. The thing that sits wrong with me, and you at least implied this if you didn't outright state it, and so did oldafsp, is that you run the serial numbers as a matter of sop. That is just wrong. Unconstitutional if someone were to challenge it, unless you have that reasonable articulable suspicion. The fact that I'm in a high crime area wouldn't meet the criteria by itself, and just the mere possession of a firearm certainly doesn't.

If an officer were to ask me if I had a firearm I would respond, "there is nothing illegal in my possession." If he persisted, I would tell him, but I would also complain to his supervisor. I realize that officers have a hard job. So do teachers. I had to confront students who were armed a time or two in twenty-four years, and I sweated bullets one day when I asked the 20 year-old junior to please hand me the box-cutter. It was illegal for me to be armed, but I knew all that when I took the job. Officers have a dangerous job, but they knew that when they took the job. It does not give them the right to violate citizens' Constitutional rights.

 

[J.Wal]

Like stated before, in TN you can buy/ sell weapons without registering the transaction. If I remove the weapon from the person I check the weapon for stolen. I would think people would appreciate that.

Say your home was broken into and a handgun was stolen. The person then takes it and sells it to a friend who in turn sells it to a person with a HGP. I stop them, secure there weapon, and find it to be stolen. Now you get your weapon back and investigators have a lead to trace on who broke into your home.

As stated before, they can also be connected to a crime and recovery of the weapon could solve it.

I keep all my guns locked in my safe as I figure most folks on here do, but some people do not, and burglary's happen and often guns are one of the most popular items stolen.

Great video, explains how most traffic stops happen. It isn't personal and is strictly safety.

Tips When Stopped By Police - Guns & Ammo

It is not required in TN to advise the officer that you have a HGP, but if the officer sees the gun and has not been advised that you have it or a permit, they will probably respond by securing you and the weapon till more information is learned.