Pepper spray

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cracker57

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How many people concealed carry a pistol and pepper spray?
I like the Idea of non lethal protection as shooting someone should be a last resort.
However lets say you live in a not so friendly gun location, you have pepper spray on you but the SHTF NOW so you use your pistol to stop the threat instead of your pepper spray. There was no time to see if the pepper spray is effective or not.
D.A. says they could have used their pepper spray to stop the threat CHARGE THEM, they didn't need to use lethal force. Thats what pepper spray is for and they had it on them.
Whats your thoughts?
 
I have been wondering about that very thing myself.
That’s why I only carry pepper spray if I have to go someplace where bad dogs could be an issue, which is almost never.
 
Not to steal the thread but what are considered the best pepper sprays??
 
It's a double edged sword. If you carry both items, which one do you reach for first? Also depending on the situation & it's subsequent escalation you only have a split second to make a decision & hope it's the right decision.
As you may have observed most LEO types carry both But they are trained in their use. The average armed citizen is not, plus some locales Mace is Not legal. In theory to carry both with the discretion to use non lethal means to defend oneself is a nice option.
In conclusion, I guess carry both and train for both if that's what gives you peace of mind. There's just too many variables you'll have to weigh out each situation and where your traveling to, to make each individual decision.
 
I have CC'd for 37 years and never found a need for a pepper spray but I have one daughter that can not carry at work so she keeps a Saber Red Crossfire pepper gell in her hand going to and from her car . After locking up her purse and larger saber red fell she keeps a smaller Saber 3in1 on her for at work needs and a good flipper folder knife .

Our youngest daughter does not have to deal with some NO Firearm restrictions at work so she CC's every time she's out of her house .

Remember that self defense spray's do have a limited range to them and most spray can blow back into your eyes depending on the wind so a gell may be better ! But also carry a good legal knife and some skills with it .
 
When LE uses pepper spray, there's usually a cover officer with a drawn gun. Also, LE is trained to fight through the pepper spray if they get sprayed. The stuff isn't as effective on man or beast if the fight response is already on.

If you do decide to carry OC, look for the highest Scoville heat rating you can get. High percentage of low heat rating OC isn't as good as a lower percentage of higher rated.
 
.. Also, LE is trained to fight through the pepper spray if they get sprayed.

True, true. I just watched a documentary on a local academy. Also recently spoke to a cadet that had gone through it. He said it's definitely something he never wants to experience again, LOL. :)

That said, a local trainer here recommended POM. You can order it as a 'pair', with one live, and one practice dispenser. That's a great way to go.
 
I have a LOT of experience with OC in various sorts having worked at a prison for many years. If you are dealing with one bad guy and it isn't raining and you are not down-wind from your own spray it has it's uses. The GEL spray is not too shabby either, it has much less tendancy to blow back in your face. Also, as noted above it can be useful to discourage aggressive dogs, again if you are not dealing with a LOT of aggressive dogs. Plus you don't have the possible flack from shooting somebody's pet that just accidentally got out and is really a nice dog, when not running with a pack, or so they will say to a civil jury.
 
When LE uses pepper spray, there's usually a cover officer with a drawn gun. Also, LE is trained to fight through the pepper spray if they get sprayed. The stuff isn't as effective on man or beast if the fight response is already on.

If you do decide to carry OC, look for the highest Scoville heat rating you can get. High percentage of low heat rating OC isn't as good as a lower percentage of higher rated.

This. Don't bet your life on OC.

Remember that OC doesn't work on everyone, especially those who are enraged, high, drunk, adrenalized, or just plain crazy.
 
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I carried OC and a gun for most of my security "career". I never, not one time had to pull my gun out at work. The only exception to that was a couple of times where I had to clear abuilding and that was protocol that's what we were supposed to do according to company policy.

I frequently had my pepper spray in my hand when I approached somebody.

I can't think of a single time where I had to stop and think is a gun or pepper spray more appropriate for this application.

I also noticed that almost everybody that I ran into did not care or was not intimidated in the least by the fact that I was openly armed. A bunch of them would dare me to shoot them whether I had the gun out or not. But when I pulled out the pepper spray I got almost instant compliance every single time. They didn't think that I'd actually shoot them but they absolutely believed that I would spray them
 
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I carry pepper gel and a firearm and a knife. The pepper spray that I used to carry came in handy on a dog that was after me. I changed to the Pepper gel because of the wind factor. Sabre recommended the Gel because it’s more stable in the wind. Whether it be animal or person I guess I would have to decide the severity of the attack and which weapon I would use. In the case of the dog, I had plenty of time to decide I didn’t want to kill a dog just change his mind. It worked.
 
One point to ponder is that OC spray is not considered deadly force as a firearm would be. The standard for use is not the same as deadly force. If you make a mistake, the consequences are far less than if you use a firearm.

Also, as stated above, distance, wind can have negative effects, plus it just doesn't work well on some people, though it generally does.

Used it quite a few times as a LEO, and it can be an effective tool in the use of force continuum.

Now retired, I don't carry it on my person, but I do keep a riot sized fogger of OC in my side door panel of my truck. Used it once, maybe 6 or 7 years ago to prevent a road rage incident from escalating any farther than it had. Worked well.

It's better than your bare hands, but if the situation is such you feel in immediate danger of death or serious harm, then that's what your firearm is for, especially if the thug is armed. As a civilian, even if you are carrying OC, you are under no obligation to use it first if you believe the threat against you reaches the level of deadly force.

Larry
 
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How many people concealed carry a pistol and pepper spray?

Whats your thoughts?

I am a Senior Citizen and a retired cop and for the public, pepper spray will not make a difference. Call 9-1-1

We all CCW for the worst possible scenario. Do not get involved in petty nonsense because you have pepper spray.
 
Speaking as someone who does this stuff for a living: If a low quality prosecutor who does not know what they don't applies that kind of legal theory, they only way to address it is a high quality defense attorney and likely a good expert. They should be disbarred with a quickness.

Remember that use of force generally is an hour or two of the total in law school, and it takes hundred of hours of education to have a basic grasp of the issues for litigation. If there are 1000 attorneys in the US who have any business defending a use of force case, I'd be amazed. When I answered a self-defense question in my first year criminal law class with an answer based on real knowledge, the professor looked at me like a chicken watching card tricks.
 
I used to not carry pepper spray. Now I carry a small amount just for the option. There are still times where a firearm should be my first choice but with some of the smaller cans at least I have that choice.
 
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Based on my LE experience, which may differ from other LEOs, herewith my thoughts.

To begin with, being in a Sheriff's Dept rather than a PD, we were solo and often distant from back up. So to make the generalization that when an LEO chooses to use gas, there is usually another LEO close by with gun drawn is conclusionary rather than factual. Not so in my field experience. When I was our patrol division commander (three stations) one of my responsibilities was to monitor all use of force incidents to make sure my troops were legal and in departmental compliance. I never read of such an incident. Often in (at this point in such an incident) deadly force was not yet legal, and the use of the gas was often followed by grappling. In this instance another LEO, in order to holster and secure a firearm, would take up critical time best used to subdue the offender(s).

Needless to say, we were not trained to have a back up LEO with firearm drawn, nor did CA POST so advocate, because it is not possible.

Without using much imagination, it is as easy to envision situations where OC would be justified, but deadly force would not be. I will be glad to supply examples of such if necessary.

When I was teaching the state mandated CCW course I did supply examples, but this of course was for non LEOs who may have not had such social experience. Since I taught this course in our church, we sold OC spray as part of our church fund raising. Since I took no money for my teaching, all in all it became a significant fund raiser for the church.

This class discussion led to a lot of OC being sold.

Teaching the CCW course in our church, under the protection of the first and second amendments, was an example of our constitution working as it should. I think the blindfolded lady holding the scales of justice would be proud. My students, a conservative population, even in CA, took pride in how the American system can work.

For myself, I carry OC along with Mr. Glock. If we are in the back country in my open Jeep Wrangler, I carry a canister of bear spray. From time to time there are instances of either pot growers or just opportunistic bullies looking to harass outnumbered people. We have no cell coverage, and too far from help anyway. I do have the pistol if I decide I need it. But I have never been one to get anywhere near the panic button. I figure with the quantity of OC in a bear canister, I could effectively stop such an attack. I would prefer to take my chances on that instead of just drawing my firearm before such would be justified (given CA PC #417, et al on brandishing, exhibiting, or presenting).

I have been retired for almost 30 years. In that time I almost drew my pistol just once in a situation in which I would have to intervene to protect an unknown-to-me third person. The arrival of San Francisco PD just prior to my announcing my presence and drawing ended that. I have never had, off duty as well as retired, any necessity to exhibit or use OC/tear gas.

So demonstrably I have never been one to initiate incidents by myself.

But I still feel the need to be prepared, and hope that never happens.
 
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I got into my work ride once to discover the canister of OC on my visor had blown its top due to the heat. I don’t think I ever got it all out.
 
I got into my work ride once to discover the canister of OC on my visor had blown its top due to the heat. I don’t think I ever got it all out.

Yea, that stuff can sure linger in a closed space...:)

Larry
 
I don't carry pepper spray, simply because any threat worthy of being sprayed is likely worthy of other means of defense.

To each their own, I have people close to me who carry both because they like having more options.

I just know this, in >99% of situations a little situational awareness and a cool head will keep you from needing to rely on either school of thought.

This is right on the money IMO. If I’m forced to defend myself to the point of using anything other than my hands, it’s not going to be with pepper spray.
 
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