Performance Center N-Frames Fail to Fire---HELP!!!

[Walker45]

I just returned from the range very frustrated and confused. As some of you may know I just purchased a couple beautiful N-Frames from the Performance Center I.E. a 325 TRR and a M&P R8. My first and second range trips were event free with no issues, with 350-400 rounds. Today however, my first moonclip in both click, click, click, click, and nothing... I thought maybe the moonclips were the issue. So I loaded my M&P R8 without a moonclip, click, click, click... NOTHING! So I unload and observed the firing pin and to my amazement, the firing pin when struck did not move. So I observed the 325 TRR and the same-thing! in both cases the firing pin didn't protrude out as before to strike the round. I just cant believe it has happened to both revolvers at the same time with the same issue.

I have been doing A LOT of dry-firing, between 1500-2000 repetitions a night for the past 2 weeks. Can this be the problem, did I screw things up some how?

If anyone has an idea I should would like to hear it.

 

[carl3989]

Wow 1500-2000 reps a night.

You must have a sore finger. However S&W states the only revolver that can't be dry fired is the 22lr. I recently had a problem with my 625pc not firing white box winchester 45acp turned out that ammunition is problematic.

 

[Walker45]

I thought maybe the ammunition may be an issue as well, but I had an assortment of manufactured ammo of various types. I believe the problem lies with the firing pin, but I could be wrong too.

As for my fingers, they were sore, blistered and bleeding but now they are getting calloused more and more each day...

 

[Walker45]

I just read the STRAIN SCREW could be tightened, so I did. Guess what, I can see my firing pin again, when I fire... So, how much is enough anyone have a clue?

 

[imashooter2]

The strain screw should be bottomed out, tight against the frame. A drop of blue loctite to keep it in place doesn't hurt, but if you snug it down well with a properly fitting screwdriver, it shouldn't back out again.

 

[Walker45]

Thanks, I will try that...

 

[DonD]

S&W may say virtually all of their revolvers can be dry fired but I don't think they mean 1500-2000 trigger pulls over 2 weeks.

I had a conversation with S&W's Herb Belin when the Model 500 was coming out. He wasn't in favor of that amount of dry firing.

If you feel a need for that much dry firing, at least use snap caps. Don

 

[ken158]

I just read the STRAIN SCREW could be tightened, so I did. Guess what, I can see my firing pin again, when I fire... So, how much is enough anyone have a clue?

The strain screw is not an "adjustment" and suppose to be tight at all times. If you want to mess around with trigger pull, have an action job done by a competent individual or install aftermarket springs.

 

[deanodog]

I shot a factory new 625 PC once that would fail to fire half the time. I discovered that it came from the PC with the strain screw backed out 2 turns. Tightened it down tight and problem solved. Don't they test fire those?

 

[scooter123]

Note, the OP stated that his gun were subjected to 1500-2000 dry fire snaps PER NIGHT for a 2 week period. That is as many as 56,000 strikes of the hammer.

IMO this is FAR beyond what I expect S&W would consider "normal" and I would expect that the firing pins in both guns should be replaced even if snap caps were used. If snap caps were not used, it's shocking that either the firing pin or it's retaining pin haven't been shattered and both items will need to be replaced.

Second, with that many trigger pulls, it's not really a surprize that the strain screws have backed out. IMO it's a good idea to check the strain screw for tightness at a regular interval, perhaps as often as every 3000 pulls of the trigger. I also keep a screwdriver in my range kit just in the event I have a problem with misfires.

 

[CWH44300]

I don't get it. 2000 snaps a night?

 

[Camster]

2000 a night.Ugh.

Dry firing without snap caps is a no-no.The hammer is still striking the frame,uncushioned by the primer.Hammer anything that much,and sooner or later you're going to get stress cracks and a failure.After one night of that acitivity,any incremental increase in the smoothness of a gun with a decent pull already,has been achieved.
How does a bleeding,calloused trigger finger help with trigger feel or sensitivity?

 

[Steve C]

The strain screw should be bottomed out, tight against the frame.

Not true any more. This was true for older revolvers when S&W set (cut) the strain screw length at the factory by hand fit to deliver an OEM spec spring strength.

This step in production has been eliminated from about the mid 90's, no doubt as a cost cutting measure so now the strain screw is overly long on new guns and could be over tightened. Turn it in until you get reliable ignition.

 

[scooter123]

Not true any more. This was true for older revolvers when S&W set (cut) the strain screw length at the factory by hand fit to deliver an OEM spec spring strength.

This step in production has been eliminated from about the mid 90's, no doubt as a cost cutting measure so now the strain screw is overly long on new guns and could be over tightened. Turn it in until you get reliable ignition.

I beg to differ with that statement. I have a 2008 production 620 and a 2009 production 610-3 and both guns had the strain screw FULLY seated from the factory. While it's possible the performance center models don't have the strain screws fully seated, my 2 samples of regular production models indicates that the factory is fully seating the strain screw on those guns.

 

[.357magger]

Have you tested the guns with the cylinder open? Is the firing pin then protruding when trigger pulled? If not, I'll bet the strain screw is the culprit and loctite is the cure.

My newish 627PC had this issue initially. Great trigger pull, reliable ignition but noted that during dry firing the pull was getting much, much lighter and the open cylinder test showed strikes as much lighter as well. Kept backing out (and I do a lot of dry fire with snaps and without). Snugged it down, marked it, loctite'd it, end of issue. Runs like a champ now.

Good luck but I'm betting strain screw back out on this one.

 

[SW357Addict]

Sounds like an IL failure to me.

 

[dgludwig]

"...S&W states the only revolver that can't be dry fired is the 22lr...."

I'm curious as to where you got this from. Though I've always refrained from dry firing any rimfire gun, I just purchased a Model 617 .22rf revolver and could find no reference in the manual that alluded to dry firing. Thanks.

 

[markush]

"...S&W states the only revolver that can't be dry fired is the 22lr...."

I'm curious as to where you got this from. Though I've always refrained from dry firing any rimfire gun, I just purchased a Model 617 .22rf revolver and could find no reference in the manual that alluded to dry firing. Thanks.

I'm sure he got it from the Smith & Wesson website FAQ's. It's the third question down on this page FAQs - Smith & Wesson

 

[Stainz]

Go to the S&W site - Resources - Customer Sevices - FAQ - 3rd question - Yes, you may dry-fire everything but the rimfire guns, which they claim that dry-firing may damage the firing pin.

As for the 'Strain Screw', it is a convenience - for removal of the 'pre-loaded' mainspring. Unscrewing it takes the pre-load - or 'charge' off the leaf spring - akin to the set compression of a coil spring. It should be tightened when the leaf spring is installed. If the leaf spring is a Wolff replacement with their 'power rib', a tunnel into which the strain screw, especially if ground, might intrude into and actually lessen the required DA pull even more - sometimes even ensuring FTF's with Federal primers - you may have to try a 'fresh' strain screw! In any case, it is for installing the mainspring and should be tight - sometimes even with a drop of blue Loctite. It is not an adjustment.

Of course, I am a retired teacher - do as I say - not as I do. I replaced the strain screw in my 4" 617 with a socket headed 1/2" set screw - and my OEM leaf mainspring with a Wolff standard power unit. I turned the set screw in to approximate the spring separation from the front grip strap's inside edge - and test fired; screwing it in (CW) further, if FTF's resulted, or outward (CCW) if they didn't - until FTF's occured. I added a half turn, once the sweet spot was found - and used a toothpick to drip a drop of blue Loctite on both ends of the set screw - then allowed 16 hr to set. It has a great DA trigger as a result. Obviously, an exception corrolary to 'tighten the strain screw', necessitated by the extra oomph needed for reliable rimfire ignition.

Stainz

 

[dgludwig]

Thanks to Stainz and markush for answering my .22 rf dryfire question.