please, just sell the box and papers separately.

[JoseyWales2]

It's a lot easier to find a gun without the box and papers than it is to find one with them. It would be a shame to separate a gun from its original box when that might be just the gun someone else is looking for to add to their collection. If the box and papers don't mean anything to you it should be no problem to find a decent shooter without them. Go buy that one, and leave the boxed one for someone who wants it.

+1 here. I like to buy them the way they came from the factory. This is true regardless of who the manufacturer is... S&W, Beretta, Ruger, etc. I'm not really looking for safe queens or 100% condition either. I just think it's a shame that someone would toss the box and papers, or change the slide out, or get different grips and not keep the originals. Keep all the original parts and give the next owner the option of "restoring" it to the way it came from the factory.

 

[buckeyeshooter1]

well i suppose if it was some rarity worth thousands then sure keep it together. but no I am talking about generic guns that happen to be in very nice to excellent condition. what is rare about 28-2's? if we are only talking about a few hundred dollars due to having all the things then I say no big deal because I am just going to shoot it anyway. the thing is I can't buy those new so why not use it? I love beaters but more so if they are MY BEATERS. meaning I'm the one who broke them in and put all the use into them. so anyway not trying to start a war just sharing that at least at this point no gun is sacred in my safe.

sounds like you are not a 'collector' but a 'shooter', you have a different mindset. I buy and sell with box and documents. I ask a price I am comfortable selling at. If you think its high based on box and documents---- better buy from someone else, I'm not selling them seperate to save you a $100.00 or $200.00.

 

[dogngun]

It depends what you want-Most of my guns are shooters, some show enough wear to make then not collectable anyway, and one has been refinished. I have one older Smith that has its box, and I didn't even realize that when I bought it.
I was just looking at a pristine .32 nickel plated New Departure in its box and thinking I'd like to buy it, but it would sit in the safe and that's about it so I probably won't...it has been in the shop for about 2 years now...

mark

 

[nightshade2x]

Really? Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Have fun and be safe.

Nightshade2x

 

[steamloco76]

Recently, I found a 90-95% condition model 14-4 in a gunshop. I considered it to be a very high quality shooter. Well, the store owner had other ideas since it had the "box and papers". He wants $750. Said with the original stuff it is worth 40% more.
Bull pucky on a modern pistol in less than 98%. I shoot everything I buy (eventually) which led me to pass on a NIB model 15 recently. I was going to buy it, but the gentleman selling it had a serious meltdown when I answered "yes" to "are you planning on firing it?" Safe queen collector piece only.

I keep the boxes, documentation and accessories that come with the guns I buy- except for rubber/plastic grip panels (unless on an old timer). After I upgrade the revolver or pistol with some quality wood, I sell the rubber/plastic to those who like that type of grip. I do keep the original wood stocks for older guns so I can go back to as delivered.

 

[stantheman86]

I'm worried less about boxes, but more people who do annoying things like sell Coke target grips or Diamond Magnas seperately on FleaBay for $200. Like when someone buys a used S&W at a gun show, with original grips, pops them off to make a quick $50-100, and keeps the gun.........Do a search for "N Frame Grip" and you'll see a bunch of "slightly used" factory wood stocks for over $100........I always think, for each of these grips, there's a gun out there somewhere wearing some aftermarket grip and there's 0 possibility of that gun ever wearing it's original grips again. It's a short sighted and annoying practice.....

 

[mc5aw]

"you see a very nice gun but...........it includes both the box and papers. oh great now I got to compete with the museum safe queen crowd."

Every 'very nice gun' for sale with box and papers is not the target of the 'museum safe queen crowd'. Don't want to pay for NIB? Then look for NWOB.

"I am so sick and tired of having the price rise just because somebody wants to hand down something to their grandkids who more than likely will never appreciate the hobby or their inheritance."

Not a single gun enthusiast/collector that I know, including myself, pursues the hobby with motivation toward leaving their respective collections to the grandkids. We collect and shoot because we enjoy doing so.

"about the only inheritance worth leaving in my opinion is money and real estate."

Based on the current devaluation of the US dollar and the recent implosion of the real estate bubble, your proposed inheritance is worth considerably less than an equivalent share in collector grade firearms, which have steadily appreciated over time.

"I hope I am not offending anyone."

No offense taken. The retail and on-line marketplaces are awash with quality handguns and long guns, of varying price points to indulge in. It's simply a matter of finding what you want at a comfortable price. The half dozen or so S&Ws that I own with original boxes and paperwork were all purchased at fair prices, and were not bid up by the museum safe queen crowd or inheritance speculators. Some were purchased from gun shops, others directly from private owners. For every firearm on my wish list that I'm priced out of buying, there's plenty more that I can afford which are simply waiting for me to find them.

 

[stantheman86]

There's always the guy that sells at all my local gun shows, I call him the "traveling S&W and Colt museum".......he has lots of NIB S&W's and Colts, "As New" guns with no boxes, nothing he has looks like it's seen a round. Too bad he prices them so high you have to laugh to keep the bile from rising in your throat $900 NIB Model 10 "no dash" blue 6" anyone? He's been carting that one around for 5 years now, I always look at it and think it might finally be the one Model 10 I would never fire......if I could get it for maybe $600, and that doesn't even sit right with me........but he doesn't move at all on his prices, I think he just enjoys showing the stuff off.

 

[one eye joe]

I could care less about the box and papers, I'm a shooter and I collect service revolvers like 581's, 10's 64's, M&P's, etc. None of mine sit in the safe, I just got done digging around in the guts of a beat up shooter grade M&P made in 1919 to replace the rebound spring, to make it a better shooter! Happiness to me is a wheelgun covered in black carbon, with deep burn rings on the cylinder face and a pile of smoking brass at my feet.

With guns like this, do you really think I care about the box and papers? =)This one looks much better in the photo, really it's hard to tell the frost and pitting from what's left of the bluing. Someone also did some strategic filing under the barrel to "fix" a bent extractor rod as well as widening the rear sight. Today it got a new rebound spring to replace the one somebody clipped, some collectors would be aghast at a modern rebound spring being put into an M&P.It shoots to the left, so I plan to add a Wonder Sight and use it to shoot BP .38's and Cowboy Loads in my backyard. I like to use my guns for what they were intended for, I'll let the people I put in my will worry about the value.

Everyone's interests are different, some like to play "curator" and have unturned, unfired NIB Registered Magnums buried deep in a $5,000 safe in the basement. If that makes them happy, I'll leave them to it, no competition from me!

Some may call me a "bottom feeder" because I'll buy the rusted busted's and turn them into range beaters, or the ones that rode in a holster for 30 years. It doesn't bother me, most of my guns have been "out there" in the real world, working, not weighing down a safe since 1952. I have guns some "condition collectors" probably wouldn't even be in the same room as.

I'm also a Ruger fanatic, and the newer ones come in soul-less gray plastic anyway, I've got a pile of them. If someone offered me $20 a piece I'd sell those boxes today.......and I have yet to buy any Ruger that still has the yellow cardboard box.

If I have to sweat blood handling it, or if it's too rare and minty to be fired, you won't find it in my collection. I also don't go for the "exotics", no pre-29's, RM's, Beakart custom K-32 Target Masterpieces, I don't concern myself with these, a RM doesn't shoot any better than my ex-PD M28.

stantheman86, I like your style---A LOT ! ! !

 

[Rawhyde]

Very well said! I'm a collector who shoots. I have guns I shoot a LOT (41, 14-2, 686), some I shoot a little (53, 18, 52, Python), and some that are NIB and staying that way (Nickel .38 Python, 16-4, 15, K-22, Belgian Grade II Takedown .22).

When I got interested in a Model 41, I specifically set out to get a brand new one (back in 2005) to be certain that I wouldn't be getting a safe queen. I had a sneaking suspicion that little pistol would be a lot of fun to shoot, and for once, I was right.

Part of me would really like to find out if an 8" Python Target in .38 is "better than" a 8-3/8" Model 14 [i kinda doubt it], but I just ain't dropping the hammer on a NIB nickel Python that most books claim to be available in blue only.

Everybody does this hobby in his or her own way, and that's part of the charm of it.

Rawhyde

There are shooters, there are collectors and there are collectors who shoot. As a rule, the shooters could care less about boxes, paper work, SATs and cleaning tools. Collectors on the other hand have a rabid desire to locate pristine firearms with the original box, paperwork and complete tools. Collectors who shoot seem the be able to conduct purchases either way depending on their desired end use of the model they are currently seeking. Obviously many original purchasers tossed boxes and paperwork leaving quite a few guns for the shooters. The collectors have the tough job due to their own self imposed demands and the collectors who shoot probably end up being the happiest group of the bunch because they can bat left or right.

 

[shooter7]

The way I think about it is; if I'm looking for a hard to find model, it doesn't matter a bit about the box/accessories, condition, is the most important to me.
If I'm looking for a shooter, I try to find one in good condition, with the box, but if the box isn't there, if the price is right, I don't care.
I do think though, that guns that have everything, including the box with them, and are in really good condition, show their owners, had pride of ownership, and, in general, these are the guns I try to get, but again, at the right price. This is epecially true, with guns that I want to purchase online, where I can't check timing, lockup, check for wear, etc. I just prefer to buy the best available of the model I am interested in that case, and in most cases, those guns come with the box, etc.

 

[gjamison]

i collect pre and early post war s&w, for me boxes
are a most have. theres nothing better than having
a correct box and docs for a gun, plus the early
boxes are very cool and of course they increase
the value. all this has already been said....

PS. BOXES ROCK!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NFrameFred]

Boxes, papers, and tools ? Nice bonus if I can get them with a purchase, but it's not a deal breaker for me since I buy shooters. Had I know what those unopened cleaning kits would eventually go for I would not have ripped them open, thrown them in the old tackle box I stored cleaning detritus in and given away bunches of stuff like that to new gun owners who didn't have even a cleaning rod to start with.

But then again, I enjoyed what I was doing and I helped some folks and hopefully fostered some good will and infected some with shooter-itis.

I kept most of the boxes but in the old days before gun safes were a must the boxes could get shop-worn from handling pretty quick, and they took up a lot of room (for something considered worthless or nearly so at the time) if you stored the guns someplace else.

I read some of these threads and marvel at the photos I see and think " wow ! some of these guys are really preserving some wonderful S&W history". But for most of us they are tools and toys, meant to be used and enjoyed. If part of that enjoyment for the next guy is having the box and extras - more power to him.

 

[kennyb]

There's always the guy that sells at all my local gun shows, I call him the "traveling S&W and Colt museum".......he has lots of NIB S&W's and Colts, "As New" guns with no boxes, nothing he has looks like it's seen a round. Too bad he prices them so high you have to laugh to keep the bile from rising in your throat $900 NIB Model 10 "no dash" blue 6" anyone? He's been carting that one around for 5 years now, I always look at it and think it might finally be the one Model 10 I would never fire......if I could get it for maybe $600, and that doesn't even sit right with me........but he doesn't move at all on his prices, I think he just enjoys showing the stuff off.

ok..so there are guns out there that you wouldn't fire long as it's a M10 you may just put that one away!!
there is plenty of room in the gun world for all...safe queen collectors..beater collectors...whatever....i think most have a few guns that fall in all the catagories....as was mentioned here earlier...whats all the drama about?

 

[MWark]

I'll pay more for a gun with the box and goodies because it's worth more. It's really all the same to me.

I will quite often use the fact that the box is missing as an excuse to offer a little less than the seller is asking. You would be surprised how often it works.

 

[jglsprings]

Changed my mind.....

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Maybe I should sell all my old silver and blue boxes on fleabay......May make enough to buy another shooter.

 

[BUFF]

Paraphrasing how I understand the O.P.:

"I want the very best stuff, but I don't want to pay what it is worth. I want someone else to go through big hassles by selling me the gun cheap and then try to recoup the difference by selling an empty box, papers and tools to somebody else, so I can save a chunk of change. People who see it differently than I do are snobby elitists."

Did I get that correct, or am I just grumpy this morning?

 

[cantpickone]

Paraphrasing how I understand the O.P.:

When a box,paper and tools are still with an old revolver, this causes collectors to spend more money than I can either afford to or am willing to spend on what would otherwise be an ordinary shooter and I am not happy with this situation.
I am hoping that by posting this sentiment, others that feel the same way that I do will post to express agreement.

 

[stantheman86]

If a hobby causes that much stress maybe it's time to switch "genres"....not singling anyone out, but some folks want champagne at beer prices.It seems to be a cause of distress to some collectors that you can't pick up decent older S&W's anymore for "normal" prices, in other words, if it's nice, and rare, you're gonna have to pay a premium to own it. I also think it's absurd that a minty M&P goes for $4-500. These were $150 guns 10 years ago, but hey , that's life I guess......supply and demand.

And then........there's always Ruger Not as many Ruger collectors (of which I am one) care about boxes and Rugers never came with some nifty $2 screwdriver that adds $100 to the value.More Ruger collectors are "shooters who collect" rather than pure collectors looking for high condition, rare examples to put away. I won't say I "jumped ship" but I found something that fits my style better, and I will say my revolver collection is becoming more and more "Ruger heavy" and I'm adding less S&W's these days.

As is obvious from my above posts, I'm a shooter, I like to shoot and carry my guns. Older S&W's in solid shape are pretty much ALL becoming "collectible", even thrashed M10's are in the $250-300 range. For an average working guy like me, collecting "shooter" grade S&W's is becoming futile because all I want them for is to shoot, as often as I can and buying "collectibles" for this is senseless, when I can get a more durable and affordable gun in the same "class", like a Model 10,13,64,or 65 vs. a Service Six, 586-686 vs. GP100......Model 629 vs. Redhawk............in the past few weeks I picked up 7 Ruger Service Sixes, none for above $250 and all in solid shape, and also a mid 90's era 6" blue GP100 that was carried by an LEO for $325. Just food for thought.........if you love wheelguns, and love to shoot, you might need to expand your horizons.......and have a nice long talk with yourself about what you really want out of gun collecting, and whether you like the thrill of the hunt for a vary rare and minty S&W or if you have more fun shooting PPC, Bullseye matches, or just plinking for fun.