Possible 44RF American 1st Model

[shown50]

I purchased a couple of project Model 3s about a month ago in an auction. While looking over one of them I noticed a curious modification. The hammer was filed smooth and the firing pin was frame mounted. I've never seen that before so I took a closer look around and it appears this might have been a 44RF originally. The serial number is 2545 and it's an 8" blued gun. The frame slot has been brazed up and a hole drilled lower than a standard 44 American. All the numbers match besides the stocks.
The modifications and condition issues severely hamper value so this is more of a fun project to tinker with. I've got a great gunsmith that I believe can manufacture a lot of the missing parts. Does this look like a 44RF or a 44A that had a broken firing pin and a creative repair done?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

The firing pin location is too low for a center fire so it is probably for a rim fire.
I would like to see more pics of the revolver, please?

It is a very interesting modification. How is the firing pin retained?

From the look of the brass/bronze filler, I think this was originally a center fire.
The 'star' stamp between the frame ears looks like a Factory inspector's mark.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[shown50]

Hi There,

The firing pin location is too low for a center fire so it is probably for a rim fire.
I would like to see more pics of the revolver, please?

It is a very interesting modification. How is the firing pin retained?

From the look of the brass/bronze filler, I think this was originally a center fire.
The 'star' stamp between the frame ears looks like a Factory inspector's mark.

Cheers!
Webb

Here's some more pictures. The guns not much to look at. It needs a lot of work. The other #3 in the lot is 50 serial numbers away from one of mine so it was the draw more than this one.
The firing pin is retained by the upper side plate screw.
I've seen the star and letters a few times on other guns so I agree it's probably an inspectors mark.
The star stamp is what made me think it wasn't a RF as the ones I've seen have a slot that goes all the way across the frame legs front to back.
The barrel is the biggest issue with the gun functioning in the long run. It appears someone has started the process to reline the barrel(similar to a 22). The rifling at the muzzle has been removed along with the breech side. I'm not sure if they realized that was a stupid thing to do or if this was a half hearted attempt at a 22 conversion. The stocks appear to be homemade along with the brass screw.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Has the cylinder been modified for .22RF? If not, that's good. Yours is early
enough to have the longer cylinder (slightly longer than 1-1/2"). I assume
you have checked the major parts for assembly marks. Do they match?

You said this was a 'project' gun. Do you think you will re-line the barrel?
I looks like all it needs are a few screws.

Here are a couple of pics of my RF American 2nd Model.






Cheers!
Webb

 

[shown50]

Thanks for the reply. All the major parts(barrel, cylinder, latch, frame) are matching(assembly number S4). The only parts that aren't numbered are the stocks.
I am not capable of relining the barrel but I'm praying my gunsmith is able to do it. If not I'll keep looking for someone who is willing/able to do it. I'd like to have it back to fireable condition. I believe whoever was doing the original job got off center and gave up. Luckily they didn't go through the side of the barrel.
I'm not sure why the front sight was removed in the manner it was but I think it's an easy fix.
The cylinder appears to be untouched as far as the chambers go. It's missing the ejector star and parts but I believe my gunsmith will be able to make those(hopefully).
That's a nice gun, I originally found a thread from last year or maybe a couple years ago talking about 44RF model 3s and I think I remember seeing that gun shown.
My other 2 model 3s are in the 4,000 range(4,825 & 4,875) which I think is the same as the 200 RF guns but mine are 44A and blued.

 

[orbruce]

Will it chamber a 44 American cartridge? My understanding is that the 44 rimfire cartridge was slightly smaller in diameter so a 44 American would not chamber. I have a 44 American rimfire that was converted to 44 centerfire, the chambers were enlarged to accommodate the centerfire cartridge..

B Mower

 

[shown50]

Will it chamber a 44 American cartridge? My understanding is that the 44 rimfire cartridge was slightly smaller in diameter so a 44 American would not chamber. I have a 44 American rimfire that was converted to 44 centerfire, the chambers were enlarged to accommodate the centerfire cartridge..

B Mower

I don't currently have any 44A ammo to test it with right now. I'll measure the chambers in the morning although without the extractor star I'm not sure if it will be accurate.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I see that I made a mistake. The length of the early cylinders is about 1.455"
(later cylinders were 1.425"). Yours is a little short. Is the cylinder to barrel
gap too wide? I have serial number 2237 which is not too far from yours and
mine has the early cylinder.

If your gap is too long, re-lining the bore should give the extra length needed
to fit it properly.

The chambers in the cylinder for .44 S&W American are about .447" and .44
Henry Rim Fire chambers are .453".

The groove diameter of the .44 American is .437" - .438" IIRC. I don't know of any
barrel liners in that size commercially made but I guess it could be custom made.
I haven't made an exhaustive search though so there may be a maker out there.
Let me know if you find anything.

Yes, a couple of years ago I did post pics of my (then new to me) .44 RF. American
2nd Model.

Cheers!
Webb

 

[shown50]

Hi There,

I see that I made a mistake. The length of the early cylinders is about 1.455"
(later cylinders were 1.425"). Yours is a little short. Is the cylinder to barrel
gap too wide? I have serial number 2237 which is not too far from yours and
mine has the early cylinder.

If your gap is too long, re-lining the bore should give the extra length needed
to fit it properly.

The chambers in the cylinder for .44 S&W American are about .447" and .44
Henry Rim Fire chambers are .453".

The groove diameter of the .44 American is .437" - .438" IIRC. I don't know of any
barrel liners in that size commercially made but I guess it could be custom made.
I haven't made an exhaustive search though so there may be a maker out there.
Let me know if you find anything.

Yes, a couple of years ago I did post pics of my (then new to me) .44 RF. American
2nd Model.

Cheers!
Webb

The cylinder to barrel gap is about .011, the headspace is roughly .072. Chambers seem to be about .441-.443. After looking it over more today I believe this is a standard 44 American that someone started a project to convert it to a different caliber.
I contacted a couple of companies today that deal with premade relined barrel sleeves. None of them are set up to make a custom sleeve in .437-.438 groove diameter. A couple of them offered a 44-40 setup with a .420 bore and .428 groove diameter. I put a couple feelers out to some barrel companies maybe they can help me.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

If you were relining it for .44 Russian, you could
use a liner for .44 Special or Magnum.

It is times like this that I wish I had access to a Brown
& Sharpe sine bar rifling machine.

I've thought about this for a while. I would worry
that a rifled liner would have too thin a wall thickness.
I'll admit to a lack of experience in this area and would
welcome input from others. I wondered if it would be
better to insert an undersized un-rifled tube and then
send it out to be bored and rifled.

Cheers!
Webb