Powder Recommendations for J-Frame

[jd45]

Hello! I haven't visited these forums in quite a while......hope everyone is doin OK. I'm working on getting my CCW permit & I'll be using my S&W 640 w/1-7/8" barrel. I'm using Speer's .38SPL+P Short Barrel ammo with their 135GR Gold Dot HP projectile, but I'd like to put together a handload that comes close in weight & velocity for economical practice. I bought some 140GR Hornady XTPs & I've ordered some 140GR Round Flat Point lead bullets from Montana Bullets. I'm using Accurate #2, but I've got some Power Pistol. Can anyone suggest some other powders that'll give good velocity with this short a barrel & these light bullets? I'll appreciate the help, and thanx. jd45

 

[Nevada Ed]

You don't need +P ammo to get a CCW with the ammo for your test/instruction time.

They don't care what you use for SD use.................
just that you pass the test !!!!!

Get a nice load that you can handle and pay attention and you should do well.


If they want +P ammo........
that 140gr XTP will match the 135 SB Speer factory load in a snub nose with.........
Red Dot at around 838 fps and will print at POA.

Green Dot, w231 and Unique will also work. Sorry but I have
yet to test CFE and HS-6 powders.

as a note;
4.2grs of Red Dot with a cci primer with the 140 Xtp hits around 734 fps
that is a GREAT practice load.


Tight groups.

 

[jd45]

J-Frame Powder Recc's

Thanx for the tips Ed. After hearing about CFE I went to Hodgdon's site & saw impressive velocities for .45 Colt with 250 LRNs, which I also load for. I do also have some HS-6 but looking at a burn rate chart, I didn't think it would be a good candidate for my short barrel. I will try these powders you mentioned. Thanx again, jd45

 

[sarg1c]

You don't need +P ammo to get a CCW with the ammo for your test/instruction time.

They don't care what you use for SD use.................
just that you pass the test !!!!!

Get a nice load that you can handle and pay attention and you should do well.


If they want +P ammo........
that 140gr XTP will match the 135 SB Speer factory load in a snub nose with.........
Red Dot at around 838 fps and will print at POA.

Green Dot, w231 and Unique will also work. Sorry but I have
yet to test CFE and HS-6 powders.

as a note;
4.2grs of Red Dot with a cci vprimer with the 140 Xtp hits around 734 fps
that is a GREAT practice load.


Tight groups.[/QUOTE
Good post, I would go with a lower powered load as most target ammo is low powered. Even load some full wad cutters.
BULLSEYE would be probably the best powder for the .38 if you can find it.
I know with my 637 full wad cutters work well and easy to manage in .38 spc.

 

[moxie]

Ditto on Bullseye. The classic 148 gr. wadcutter load with 2.7-3.0 grs. Bullseye is very mild and accurate. At relatively close ranges such as you will be shooting at your CCW course they will hit to just about the same POA (point of aim) as your 135 Speer +P short barrel Gold Dot load.

 

[jd45]

sarg1c, thanx,.........I saw a load posted on handloads.com using Bullseye, (max 5.5grs) & a 140gr bullet out of a Taurus 2", which the poster said was actually a +P+ load. I don't need that stiff a load even tho my gun can handle it, (the 1st Gen of these 640s was laser-engraved +P+ in the bottom of the cylinder window), but I do intend to se if I can get some somewhere. jd45

 

[moxie]

jd45,
You might be able to find some of those +P+ rounds floating around. But, bear in mind that although they might have somewhat increased velocity, they won't have newer technology bullets like the Gold Dot. The Gold Dots and a few others (XTP?) are considered by many to be more effective, and the lighter recoiling +P rounds permit faster followup shots as well.

Winchester made one of those 110 +P+ loads in its Ranger line, using the exposed lead tip JHP bullet. That bullet is still used by Winchester in its bargain white box 125+P "Personal Protection" load.

 

[gnystrom]

All my J frames shoot more accurately (30') with a light loaded 140gr. FMJ.
Unique and 231 being the most favored powder.

 

[Thomas15]

I have been experimenting with light loads for our J frames. We are using fast powders (Hodgdon Clays 3.0-3.4g) and Hornady 110g JHPs.

My daughter can shoot these all day with her J frame 442.

 

[jd45]

I won't be running +P+ loads thru my 640....I don't think they're needed for SD. My focus as I said is coming as close to the Speer load as I can. I realize I can use a mild load to do the test with, so the light-loaded 140s accuracy appeals to me. As far as using 110s goes, I have serious doubts they'd get to a perp's vitals & stop the fight, tho I might use those for a light target load. Thanx for all the help guys,......more feedback is also welcome. jd45

 

[Rule3]

A test shooting test for a CCW?? Ohhhhh You are in Chicago.

If they do not care what ammo, just the gun then just load some light target loads with HP 38 or Bullseye and a light bullet. Just get something accurate.

Power Pistol is great for actual wam bam SD loads, it is very LOAD report powder but it was a factory load powder for many years it was known as BE 84

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have tried the Winchester 110 SJHP old style in my snub nose
and the faster you shoot it the quicker it opens up.

Went from 702 up to 996 fps and did not get the penetration or the expansion that I wanted in my test.

I will be doing one final test with the Hornady Xtp JHP bullet at
950 fps for my final try for deep penetration and at least an expansion dia. of .45".
If this does not pan out I will write off the little 110gr bullet to
SD use and tag it as a bullet for target use.

So far the only 110gr that works is the DPX Copper bullet.

 

[rg1]

I like AA#2 in 38 Special. It gives me less velocity differences, isn't position sensitive, and good velocity. Some powders I've tried seems to be position sensitive meaning if all the powder is forward against the bullet it gives different velocity than powder next to the primer. I like 110-125 grain bullets in my .38 loads but lots use heavier bullets for target and self-defense. My Accurate Arms data for AA#2 gives as much velocity in short barrels as does a slower powder like Unique.

 

[jd45]

Ed, what you said about the 110s opening quicker the faster you drive them goes to my suspicion about them not being a good projectile for an SD load, namely quicker opening works against penetration. rg1, thanx for the info on ACC#2. My data goes from 4.2grs to 4.7grs with a 140gr bullet. jd45

 

[Rule3]

Do you want ammo to "qualify" pass your "test" with or SD ammo??

Two different animals.

For your CCW it makes no difference what you use as long as it is accurate. You can test SD loads later.

 

[njl]

With such a short barrel, I would think you'd want to use the fastest powder you have/can get, regardless of whether you're looking to load mild target ammo or carry ammo.

 

[jd45]

Rule3 & njl, I agree with both of you., and I'm searching for some Bullseye to do double duty for target & SD loads. Thanx, jd45

 

[TANKER]

I use two loads in my 642. 148gr wadcutters over Trailboss at 600 fps. This is a good practice load and I shoot at least 50 a week. I also load 158 gr XTP over Power Pistol for a carry load. I use the book load out of the Hornady manual and was surprised to find it chrono's 925 fps from my 642 and 950 fps from my 4" model 15. This is about as much recoil as I can handle in the 642. I prefer the heavier bullets in carry loads.

 

[gwpercle]

In this time of little or no powder on the dealers shelves, I made up this list of suitable powders for 38 special and 9mm and carry it in my wallet just in case I find some powder. These are the faster powders and are suitable for shorter barrels.

Tightgroup
700X
231
Bullseye
Red Dot
Acc #5
Unique
Universal
N340
N350
Power Pistol

Good luck in the powder search.
Gary

 

[Rule3]

Rule3 & njl, I agree with both of you., and I'm searching for some Bullseye to do double duty for target & SD loads. Thanx, jd45

I disagree with faster powders for SD. REGARDLESS of barrel length the powders that give the highest velocity in longer barrels will do so in short barrels which are slower powders than BE or TG.

Slower powders will give you the most velocity for SD loads. They also give more blast and flash. Magnum powders are slow powders for a reason. Look at the data, get a chronograph.

Topic has been beaten till the horse is deader than dead

THE FBI or BB load can be duplicated. I have shot these out of a alloy framed +P 642 and they are brutal. They are pretty bad in a 640 also.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/91534-duplicating-buffalo-bore-fbi-load.html