Pre-Victory model.....

[LOBO]

My first Pre-Victory model arrived at its new home today I think it is going to be one of the South Africa contract guns as the serial number, 685147, falls into that range. It's a 4" barreled gun in .38 S&W. It also has either O or D Smith scratched into the bottom of the left grip. A neat little "bonus".

 

[Oldiron]

Lobo, Looks like one of the S.A. contract guns to me. I asked you some questions about yours on my Trio thread but your pics answered all of them. I love the action on my two with British proofs. The S.A. marked is good but no where near as slick as the British. How is yours?
Larry

 

[LOBO]

Lobo, Looks like one of the S.A. contract guns to me. I asked you some questions about yours on my Trio thread but your pics answered all of them. I love the action on my two with British proofs. The S.A. marked is good but no where near as slick as the British. How is yours?
Larry

Larry,

I saw your questions, but instead of answering I opted to put a link to this thread for you. I didn't want to hijack your thread on the trio.

Is there a certain mark on this gun that is not a British mark? Regarding the re-routed pre-Vics, where were they sent?

You speak the truth friend! This gun has a beautifully slick action. The single action pull is like that of a tuned model 700 rifle trigger. I can't wait to shoot this one

 

[bgrafsr]

It appears that you have a keeper LOBO. Congrats. Now, take it out and shoot it and show it some love.

 

[LOBO]

It appears that you have a keeper LOBO. Congrats. Now, take it out and shoot it and show it some love.

You can count on it!

 

[Retired W4]

Square Inch

Great photography too. I love the way the Britts designate "square inch".

 

[CQB27]

I Like It!

 

[Oldiron]

Lobo, Those were ordered by South Africa and S&W shows shipping to S.A. in 1940 but it seems as though the first couple of shipments were rerouted to other British Commonwealth uses (British proof marks). Found this out when I was researching my first one (the one on my Trio thread with the U arrow and property #). So far I don't think anyone has actually found any paperwork to answer the who, what, when and where this happened but strong circumstantial evidence dictates this was the case.
One of the things I like about these revolvers is that they have a wild story behind them but are not so wild that I can't go have lots of fun shooting them. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine.
Larry
P.S. Hope Midway get Brass in soon for these. 150 cases dont go far in a days worth of fun.

 

[Dave_n]

You should be able to get 38SW brass from Starline which is where Midway buys theirs. Advantage is that Starline's price includes shipment. Load with 0.360" 180 grain lead FPs and run around 650 fps. Mimics the 380/200 load in my fair number of such pistols. Dave_n

 

[sw44spl]

I like it too nice gun

 

[Oldiron]

Dave_n, Haven't thought about buying direct from Starline. At the moment I need 38sw, 32 sw long and 32-20 brass. On other calibers I prefer not to get Starline because of the rough edges they leave on the necks but I guess a night in the tumbler like my Starline .32 H&R mag brass got and they are ok.
Larry

 

[LOBO]

.32 S&W Long

Gunstop Reloading Supplies - Starline

 

[PJGP]

Lobo, Those were ordered by South Africa and S&W shows shipping to S.A. in 1940 but it seems as though the first couple of shipments were rerouted to other British Commonwealth uses (British proof marks). Found this out when I was researching my first one (the one on my Trio thread with the U arrow and property #). So far I don't think anyone has actually found any paperwork to answer the who, what, when and where this happened but strong circumstantial evidence dictates this was the case.
.

It is a bit more than circumstantial Oldiron. Please see the documents I posted on this thread

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/71374-38-200-pix-2.html .

Peter

 

[Art Doc]

I associate the 38 S&W caliber guns as having 5" tubes. Is this 4" variation common?

 

[ordnanceguy]

I associate the 38 S&W caliber guns as having 5" tubes. Is this 4" variation common?

No, the 4 inch .38 S&W guns are not considered to be common and are actually pretty darn scarce.

They are generally referred to by collectors as "South African" pre-Victory Models. Factory letters will indicate that they was shipped to SA, which is precisely what the factory records show. However, as Peter (PJGP) has pretty conclusively demonstrated a good chunk of them were later diverted to the UK and did not end up in South Africa. That explains why some of the guns that letter as shipped to South Africa do not have the characteristic South African property and rack/inventory numbers.

 

[hsguy]

SP, the 5" guns are most common but the 4", and 6" guns show up also on occasion. The Canadians also seemed to like the 6" guns for some reason.

 

[hsguy]

Here is another pre-Victory that letters as being shipped to SA but is devoid of any ownership or proof markings.

 

[LOBO]

hsguy,

those are both great looking guns!! I especially like the lines of the 6" gun. Thanks for sharing them!

 

[LOBO]

Does anyone know which holster is the correct one for this gun? I'm guessing one in canvas of British or Canadian issue.

 

[Texas Star]

Does anyone know which holster is the correct one for this gun? I'm guessing one in canvas of British or Canadian issue.

Pattern 1937 web holsters intended for five-inch barrels were used for all .38's, including S&W's. Obviously, shorter or longer barrels weren't ideal, but from photos, seem to have been used, regardless.
If other holsters were used, I've seen only a very few leather flap ones that looked a lot like the web ones with the flap. One was made in Australia and had a grained effect.

Tankers had open-top rigs on a long drop loop with ammo loops on the front of the holster. You can see some probably on Gunboards in the British Gun Pub. Some have been shown here. Perusing books on WW II will provide additional looks. And some authors mention their sidearms. Alas, they often just refer to a "revolver" or a ".38 revolver." Some .455's also remained in use, and the Commandos usually issued Colt .45 autos. I've seen pics of them in what look exactly like the Pattern '37 web .38 rig and a very similar one with a different closure strap, a bit larger to fit the Colt auto. You can see Sean Connery use a holster like this (Pattern 37 .38, I think) in, "A Bridge Too Far." He had a Colt auto, like many of the paratroopers in the actual Arnhem battle. One photo taken during the battle shows a paratrooper advancing, .45 auto in hand. Some also had Browning 9mm's, so you have to look very carefully at wartime photos. Connery portrayed Maj. Gen. Roy Urqhardt (sp?) and I;'ve seen a pic of the real general. He had a holster like that, but I've no idea what was in it.