Pre27 v. Pre28: Case Closed (AFAIAC)

[SLT223]

Took a 1954 Highway Patrolman and a 1957 "357 Magnum" to the range today.

Using 38 Special ammo that would have been standard stuff in 1950s (a 158 lead semi-wadcutter loaded to 900 FPS) I shot some SA groups and a DA group at 10 yards.

Best SA for both were very similar. The HP edged the 357 very slightly if you drop the worst flyer from each group making them with 1/4" of each other.

HP SA: (I always seem to have that one errant shot.)

357 SA:

In DA mode the smoother action and much lighter trigger pull of the "357" proved superior. One shot from the HP was off the paper.

HP:

"357":

I know some guys want to argue that the HP (28) is just as smooth as the "357" (27) but that has simply NOT been my experience in the past 30 years of owning and shooting numerous examples of both guns. I know this is just these two particular guns and this one particular shooter but like I said, this has consistently been the results in my experience over the past three decades. The Pre27 and Model 27 is smoother and has a better trigger pull. I think these did receive a bit more more attention in manufacturing than did the service grade HP and Model 28.

Keep trying to argue if you wish, but I am no longer listening.

When you disassembled the guns and compared the individual internal components what differences did you notice, if any?

 

[Art Doc]

I never took anything apart. Judgment based on handling and shooting, not visual inspection.

You know, I've said this many times previously. Did I not make myself clear?

 

[Old TexMex]

You guys crack me up.

 

[hardscrabble]

By Texas Star-

"If you can't put all six holes touching closely in a pretty tight ragged hole at 25 yards from "offhand" at least fairly often, you aren't a very good pistol shot, and need to keep your results to yourself. " (Speaking of shooting a 357 Magnum revolver.)

I guess I'm not a very good pistol shot.

Really? A one hole group offhand at 25 yards is a measurement of mundane performance? Seriously, how many shooters can actually do that?

I can't do it so I'm giving up hand gun hunting.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

"David had only 5rds(1Sam17:40)"

Divine intervention, according to the good book, seemingly does trump superior numbers/technology/firepower/laws of physics/natural elements and pert near everything else including an extra round.
---

The argument cannot be successfully defended w/extreme prejudice. You introduce as evidence two S&W revolvers that are stated as being 60 & 57 years of age/shipped. As I recall your claim rests on your physical/mental interpretation/evaluation from also shooting various different arms within those two models.

There's no way to gauge your bias betwixt the twain. Just as there is no way to know why you prefer one colour to another. Yet, everyone introduces their own bias. Does not make it right, wrong, true or false except to the individual.

You believe that one is superior/smoother/had more attention paid to detail than the other, however slightly though noticeable to you. Yet, you cannot prove this one way or the other.

The basis of your argument rests on a difference bound to exist betwixt a service model and a more expensive model that for all intents and purposes is the same. You are saying that you see no discernible difference save the model number, in your sample of two, so there must be more labour in the one of greater expense. Since you detect none on the outside it must come from within.

Perhaps. Though it possible the notion is nothing more save a false dichotomy. In marketing many ploys are embraced to convince the consumer that their choice was the best. You have sold yourself to the point of searching for some factual artifact/kindred spirits to backup your belief.

I believe that you feel with all your heart that the 27 is more refined. More power to you as you are free to draw your own conclusions based on your life experiences and research. I suspect the mechanical differences would not amount to a hill of beans.

 

[Art Doc]

I don't care.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

Wonderful except apathy cannot be drawn from as a qualifier to your unsubstantiated conclusion.

 

[Rick_A]

By Texas Star-

"If you can't put all six holes touching closely in a pretty tight ragged hole at 25 yards from "offhand" at least fairly often, you aren't a very good pistol shot, and need to keep your results to yourself. " (Speaking of shooting a 357 Magnum revolver.)

I guess I'm not a very good pistol shot.

Really? A one hole group offhand at 25 yards is a measurement of mundane performance? Seriously, how many shooters can actually do that?

I did do so once with a. 7.5" 629 and unknown target ammo. While bragging my shooting "buddies" simultaneously shot my target all to hell...so there's no proof to say it happened.

With an optic or long barreled revolver (long sight radius) with the right load and a light, crisp single action trigger it's doable for a practiced shooter on a good day.

For double action shooting that's a near impossibility.

 

[aphelion]

Wonderful except apathy cannot be drawn from as a qualifier to your unsubstantiated conclusion.

He doesn't care about that either.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

He doesn't care about that either.

There's the point in this thread that none argue nor contest.

 

[410bore]

I don't care.

I don't care about this thread.....

You state that you have proven this to yourself from 30 years of shooting experience but when someone else offers up their opinion, you totally dismiss it, won't even consider another theory on it;

Keep trying to argue if you wish, but I am no longer listening.

Who cares if your listening!


This has to be one of the dumbest threads I have ever read.


They are both great guns, one got a little more love on the outside, that's obvious. The inside, I doubt there was much difference but perhaps a little.


I know your not listening but here's my opinion; Practice up on your DA shooting and the results would be a little different, I'd bet. I mean, you already admitted the HP shot a tad better in SA. From what I saw of the two DA targets, neither gun had a distinct group, yes the "357" shots were tighter but still strung out. After all, DA shooting is more about the shooter than the gun anyway......

 

[Rick_A]

I submit my standing, unsupported 10 round, 15 yd DA Airweight group:

...along with the target of my pre 27 also standing, unsupported, and DA out to 15:

This should be clear proof that the Airweight has the superior action

 

[Art Doc]

410bore- I dismiss those trying to tell me I'm wrong. I am not wrong.

I dismiss those trying to say that I'm wrong because this test wasn't scientific. Of course it wasn't. I never said it was. I'm still not wrong.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I know what I know. You or anyone thinks otherwise...fine. But I am still not wrong.

You call this amongst the dumbest threads you've seen. Yet you apparently read it...and contributed to it...so who is to blame, here? Not my fault.

Oh, and I am still not wrong.

 

[Art Doc]

Nicksterdemus- As I stated numerous times, my conclusions are my own, reached after 30 years of experience. You disagree. I don't care. Throw around all the big words you want, I don't care whether you concur...er, agree...or not.

Again, this exercise was just for fun. It was never intended as the do all and be all of comparative studies. Yeah, I'm a lousy marksman according to Texas Star (actually, I sort of already knew that), but I do better with a 27. And the 27 feels smoother to me. Every time for 30 years, not just this time.

Also again, for those who insist their 28s are just as good even better than the 27s, OK. I will not waste one second of anyone's time arguing.

I've decided. I have no interest in entertaining criticism. I'm done defending myself.

 

[Nicksterdemus]

The Pre27 and Model 27 is smoother and has a better trigger pull. I think these did receive a bit more more attention in manufacturing than did the service grade HP and Model 28.

Keep trying to argue if you wish, but I am no longer listening.

Your thread, your first post. You picked that side of the fence brother.

Oh yeah, if lovin' a 27 is wrong I don't wanna be right.

ETA: At this juncture I advise you to offload the 28. You could enhance it's action by engaging in an isometric trigger finger workout, however that would result in the 27 becoming so buttery smooth that you might mistake it for a Python.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Can I shoot +P in my Highway Patrolman (no model number, i.e. pre-1957)? If not, how about a pre-27, since they are better made?

 

[Chukar60]

I like SP's posts. always stirs the pot and he being a bit of a contrarian only puts a little more lipstick on the pig (sorry for the pun SP)
The 27 was always the flagship revolver for Smith, all the added touches, the fit and finish have always set it two notches above the 28. While the 28 is a fine gun, it was produced as a cost efficient product to peddle to LE buyers and cost conscious consumers. there is not another reason for its existence. If you were Smith, would you run your flagship through the shop with no more attention paid to the action than your budget alternative? or conversely would you invest the same amount of time on the action of your budget gun as you did on your signature product? If you have a lick of business sense you would not. Every consumer understands the basics, pay less, receive less and many are willing to sacrifice some features for savings.
I had a 28-2 that was unfired and I still have a 27-2 that has had a sum total of 6 rounds fired through it.
both guns were untouched internally since leaving the factory. There is / was, no comparison between the two guns in the feel of the action or the trigger pulls. The 27 was clearly superior in those areas.
All of this conclusive? nope it is not, but logic would seem to indicate SP's assertions are very plausible.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

S&W quality also declined over the years. If RMs were as great as people claim wouldn't S&W still be making them? Couldn't it be possible that the reason so many Pythons were made during their time is that many people recognized they were the best and were willing to pay for it. Gun Digest 1965: Python blue $125., nickel $137.50. M27 blue or nickel $120. During their time period the Python was higher priced than the M27. If you want to pay big money for a model (RM) that S&W quit producing be my quest. Just comparing S&W to what you said about Colt. Larry

Hey Larry, before you bash the S&W N frame .357 Magnum, buy a book on Smith & Wesson and have someone read it to you, slowly.

 

[AZretired]

After reading this entire thread, I have come to the conclusion, that the only thing Saxon Pig has proven is that (1) he is a poor DA shooter (2) he's not much as a SA shooter either OR (3) neither his 27 nor his 28 are capable of grouping worth a damn.!

 

[gaucho1]

Harshing SP is something I would like to see you do to his
face.

Taking any of this seriously indicates a lack of significant values.

This is a gun forum for S&W fans, relax and have some fun.