Problem with 4506 Slide Stop

I've just completed a 200 round session with the Big Smitty and I'm happy to proclaim it good to go.

I replaced the slide stop and side plate, as well as the recoil, extractor and mag springs. Jon651 supplied the slide stop and side plate at a very considerate price. I also purchased a steel guide rod from Paul Howell. As most will know, the original guide rod is aluminum and a multi-piece affair. (way to go S&W, take a boat anchor of a gun and try to save weight with an aluminum guide rod, spectacular) There's a spring plunger on the back end of the rod that applies pressure to a notch in the slide stop, helping to keep the latter in place.

The plunger is in turn held in place by a cap that's crimped into the guide rod. If the cap comes loose you're dead in the water. Mine is in good shape, but since this is another near unobtanium part, I opted to replace it with a steel unit. Paul makes them himself and his turn around was an incredible two days. The rod is beautifully made and functions flawlessly. If you have one of these pistols, the price of $60 is well spent insurance. One of the forum members at Pistol Forum kindly offered to send me an NOS factory grip module for the cost of postage.

As I stated in my original post: I shot one of these only once, way back in the day. I remember liking it, but didn't recall any really detailed recollections. After putting a few rounds down range I will say, I really like this pistol. Third Generation Smiths seem to be a love it or hate it affair, you can put me in the latter category. I loaded up some 230 grain hardball loads over 5.0 grains of Bullseye, the classic service load for the round. Since I was mainly checking function, I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible and decided to avoid lighter target loads this time out. At the twenty five yard line accuracy was as good as it was during my first outing. I had a few fliers, but that was me trying too hard with an unfamiliar gun. With dedicated target loads the gun will be quite the shooter.

I was very impressed with the way the gun handled during speed drills at the seven and ten yard lines. Two hundred rounds of hardball from one of my 1911s would send my looking for the pain killers due to my arthritis. The mass of the 4506 really dampened the recoil of the service loads and it was quite comfortable to shoot. The grip is a tad narrow for me, but it is rather long front to back and that helps minimize it. The DA trigger is around twelve pounds and the SA at six, but they're both pretty smooth and neither presented an issue. Four years of shooting Beretta 92s has helped in that regard. The reset is crazy short for a DA/SA gun, almost 1911 short. I don't plan on doing anything to the trigger, it's fine as is. The decocker didn't pose any problems for me, since operating one has now become second nature. It's easily reached with either my shooting or support hand thumbs.

The 4506 has been affectionately described as (some times not so much) clunky, massive and cumbersome. Yes, it's big with a capital B, but overall it's no bigger than the 92 I've been carrying and actually quite a bit flatter than the Beretta. Personally, I don't find it clunky and I actually think it handles quite well. It is heavy though, no getting around that, but that's actually a plus when it's time to pull the trigger. I bought this gun for nostalgias sake, but I find that I quite like it as a shooter. I wish Smith and Wesson still made them. If that was the case I'd buy one or two more and run them a lot harder than I plan on running this one. I don't intend for this to supplant my Berettas as my carry gun. However, I will be obtaining a holster so that I can work with the 4506. I like expanding my knowledge base and this one will provide an enjoyable experience.

I'm very thankful to the people who were kind enough to give me the benefit of their experience in analyzing the guns issues and especially to the people I've mentioned for supplying the parts necessary to get this old beast back in action. Cool stuff all around.

Now to find that 1006.
 
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Now, you just need to find a trailer kit for that beast.:D


I've just completed a 200 round session with the Big Smitty and I'm happy to proclaim it good to go.

I replaced the slide stop and side plate, as well as the recoil, extractor and mag springs. Jon651 supplied the slide stop and side plate at a very considerate price. I also purchased a steel guide rod from Paul Howell. As most will know, the original guide rod is aluminum and a multi-piece affair. (way to go S&W, take a boat anchor of a gun and try to save weight with an aluminum guide rod, spectacular) There's a spring plunger on the back end of the rod that applies pressure to a notch in the slide stop, helping to keep the latter in place.

The plunger is in turn held in place by a cap that's crimped into the guide rod. If the cap comes loose you're dead in the water. Mine is in good shape, but since this is another near unobtanium part, I opted to replace it with a steel unit. Paul makes them himself and his turn around was an incredible two days. The rod is beautifully made and functions flawlessly. If you have one of these pistols, the price of $60 is well spent insurance. One of the forum members at Pistol Forum kindly offered to send me an NOS factory grip module for the cost of postage.

As I stated in my original post: I shot one of these only once, way back in the day. I remember liking it, but didn't recall any really detailed recollections. After putting a few rounds down range I will say, I really like this pistol. Third Generation Smiths seem to be a love it or hate it affair, you can put me in the latter category. I loaded up some 230 grain hardball loads over 5.0 grains of Bullseye, the classic service load for the round. Since I was mainly checking function, I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible and decided to avoid lighter target loads this time out. At the twenty five yard line accuracy was as good as it was during my first outing. I had a few fliers, but that was me trying too hard with an unfamiliar gun. With dedicated target loads the gun will be quite the shooter.

I was very impressed with the way the gun handled during speed drills at the seven and ten yard lines. Two hundred rounds of hardball from one of my 1911s would send my looking for the pain killers due to my arthritis. The mass of the 4506 really dampened the recoil of the service loads and it was quite comfortable to shoot. The grip is a tad narrow for me, but it is rather long front to back and that helps minimize it. The DA trigger is around twelve pounds and the SA at six, but they're both pretty smooth and neither presented an issue. Four years of shooting Beretta 92s has helped in that regard. The reset is crazy short for a DA/SA gun, almost 1911 short. I don't plan on doing anything to the trigger, it's fine as is. The decocker didn't pose any problems for me, since operating one has now become second nature. It's easily reached with either my shooting or support hand thumbs.

The 4506 has been affectionately described as (some times not so much) clunky, massive and cumbersome. Yes, it's big with a capital B, but overall it's no bigger than the 92 I've been carrying and actually quite a bit flatter than the Beretta. Personally, I don't find it clunky and I actually think it handles quite well. It is heavy though, no getting around that, but that's actually a plus when it's time to pull the trigger. I bought this gun for nostalgias sake, but I find that I quite like it as a shooter. I wish Smith and Wesson still made them. If that was the case I'd buy one or two more and run them a lot harder than I plan on running this one. I don't intend for this to supplant my Berettas as my carry gun. However, I will be obtaining a holster so that I can work with the 4506. I like expanding my knowledge base and this one will provide an enjoyable experience.

I'm very thankful to the people who were kind enough to give me the benefit of their experience in analyzing the guns issues and especially to the people I've mentioned for supplying the parts necessary to get this old beast back in action. Cool stuff all around.

Now to find that 1006.
 
As most will know, the original guide rod is aluminum and a multi-piece affair. (way to go S&W, take a boat anchor of a gun and try to save weight with an aluminum guide rod, spectacular)

Two hundred rounds of hardball from one of my 1911s would send my looking for the pain killers due to my arthritis.

I wish Smith and Wesson still made them. If that was the case I'd buy one or two more and run them a lot harder than I plan on running this one. I don't intend for this to supplant my Berettas as my carry gun. However, I will be obtaining a holster so that I can work with the 4506. I like expanding my knowledge base and this one will provide an enjoyable experience.

I'm very thankful to the people who were kind enough to give me the benefit of their experience in analyzing the guns issues and especially to the people I've mentioned for supplying the parts necessary to get this old beast back in action. Cool stuff all around.

Now to find that 1006.

the aluminum guide rod is not there to lighten up the pistol. there is friction between the slide and the full size guide rod when the pistol functions, hence aluminum was used so that the guide rod becomes the sacrificial piece in heavy use. Keep in mind 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide, so they were designed to outlast 3-4 generations of shooters. (75-98 years roughly.)

I am sorry to hear about your arthritis friend, as I know how my father suffers from it. Another useful feature of the 4506 (at least for a dear friend of mine who also had arthritis) was that he could pull the slide back by only using his index and middle finger on the two sides of the safety lever, much like a p08 Luger. Do that with an m&p or block...

Now it is the time to buy more, and here is why. when they were being produced, they were an expensive line of guns, (and very rightfully so, in terms of materials, machining, innovation, combat accuracy, safety features, size/ caliber selection and in general all those things that make a product top of the line) now, you can get them at plastic toy gun prices and even lower. Find the models you like, clean them up, replace their springs (cheap insurance) and blaze away!! Plus the added bonus of their prices only going up from here. Try that with a shield.... :)
 
"Keep in mind 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide"

I don't think I'd drink the KoolAid to that extent, but they are certainly built to last. When the 3rd Gens were first introduced I remember thinking how solid they felt, definitely built to last.

More than thirty years of shooting things that started with "4" and often ended with "Magnum", in both short and long gun form, has resulted in arthritis in the distal joint on both hands and my right shoulder. I'm not a cripple by any means, but with an average consumption of 20k handgun rounds a year, a change to 9mm as my primary carry and training round became a necessity. I still likes me some half-ninety action though, so I'm very pleased with the 4506 in that regard. I see younger people firing these ridiculously large handguns without any thought to what it will cost them later on in life. I never did and it's costing me now.

The 3rd Gen. Smiths are absolutely undervalued, I've always noted that when comparing them to many other brands, as well as S&Ws own revolvers. I don't think that's likely to continue though. The younger generation seems to be discovering these old guns and considers them to be pretty cool, having been raised on plastic fantastics. In law enforcement circles they're called "hipster guns" now.
 
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I've just completed a 200 round session with the Big Smitty and I'm happy to proclaim it good to go.

I replaced the slide stop and side plate, as well as the recoil, extractor and mag springs. Jon651 supplied the slide stop and side plate at a very considerate price. I also purchased a steel guide rod from Paul Howell. As most will know, the original guide rod is aluminum and a multi-piece affair. (way to go S&W, take a boat anchor of a gun and try to save weight with an aluminum guide rod, spectacular) There's a spring plunger on the back end of the rod that applies pressure to a notch in the slide stop, helping to keep the latter in place.

The plunger is in turn held in place by a cap that's crimped into the guide rod. If the cap comes loose you're dead in the water. Mine is in good shape, but since this is another near unobtanium part, I opted to replace it with a steel unit. Paul makes them himself and his turn around was an incredible two days. The rod is beautifully made and functions flawlessly. If you have one of these pistols, the price of $60 is well spent insurance. One of the forum members at Pistol Forum kindly offered to send me an NOS factory grip module for the cost of postage.

As I stated in my original post: I shot one of these only once, way back in the day. I remember liking it, but didn't recall any really detailed recollections. After putting a few rounds down range I will say, I really like this pistol. Third Generation Smiths seem to be a love it or hate it affair, you can put me in the latter category. I loaded up some 230 grain hardball loads over 5.0 grains of Bullseye, the classic service load for the round. Since I was mainly checking function, I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible and decided to avoid lighter target loads this time out. At the twenty five yard line accuracy was as good as it was during my first outing. I had a few fliers, but that was me trying too hard with an unfamiliar gun. With dedicated target loads the gun will be quite the shooter.

I was very impressed with the way the gun handled during speed drills at the seven and ten yard lines. Two hundred rounds of hardball from one of my 1911s would send my looking for the pain killers due to my arthritis. The mass of the 4506 really dampened the recoil of the service loads and it was quite comfortable to shoot. The grip is a tad narrow for me, but it is rather long front to back and that helps minimize it. The DA trigger is around twelve pounds and the SA at six, but they're both pretty smooth and neither presented an issue. Four years of shooting Beretta 92s has helped in that regard. The reset is crazy short for a DA/SA gun, almost 1911 short. I don't plan on doing anything to the trigger, it's fine as is. The decocker didn't pose any problems for me, since operating one has now become second nature. It's easily reached with either my shooting or support hand thumbs.

The 4506 has been affectionately described as (some times not so much) clunky, massive and cumbersome. Yes, it's big with a capital B, but overall it's no bigger than the 92 I've been carrying and actually quite a bit flatter than the Beretta. Personally, I don't find it clunky and I actually think it handles quite well. It is heavy though, no getting around that, but that's actually a plus when it's time to pull the trigger. I bought this gun for nostalgias sake, but I find that I quite like it as a shooter. I wish Smith and Wesson still made them. If that was the case I'd buy one or two more and run them a lot harder than I plan on running this one. I don't intend for this to supplant my Berettas as my carry gun. However, I will be obtaining a holster so that I can work with the 4506. I like expanding my knowledge base and this one will provide an enjoyable experience.

I'm very thankful to the people who were kind enough to give me the benefit of their experience in analyzing the guns issues and especially to the people I've mentioned for supplying the parts necessary to get this old beast back in action. Cool stuff all around.

Now to find that 1006.

The only time in my entire life a cop ever offered to buy pizza at a fire station and I'm in a completely different time zone! There ain't no justice...

Happy to help with the parts. I also have Paul making guide rods for my 4046TSW and the 4516 upper that I'm using on my 4506 lower, but since the 4516 has dual recoil springs he needed my original rod as a prototype so my 4506 is back in stock form again with the original 5" barrel until he can get me the new rods in the mail.

For me, I think a 5906 might be next...
 
... The younger generation seems to be discovering these old guns and considers them to be pretty cool, having been raised on plastic fantastics. In law enforcement circles they're called "hipster guns" now.

ARGH!! Hipster?!? Might as well call it a Gat and act cool with pretend bravado ... sigh ...

Not around me.

Reminds me of what a friend of mine told me. He graduated in the last LAPD academy that used revolvers. He said the class motto was "The Last of the Gunfighters".

I recently did a complete armorer inspection of his older 3913 (from his UC/Crash days at LAPD), as he really likes that compact.

I replaced his extractor because it was developing some light chipping, and his extractor spring was a pound below the minimum tension (checked with a force dial gauge, and the normal spec is 4-7lbs). He said it had been perking right along without any feeding, extraction or ejection issues ... and he was still using the original springs.

Anyway, I puffed it out, also replacing the trigger play spring with the new style spring, and gave him all new recoil & mag springs. I told him he ought to be good for another 20+ years. ;)

He tried it out at the range at his former agency (he retired from another agency than LAPD) and said it ran perfect. Now, it seems like he's going to look for an excuse to go shooting it at the range every so often.

Yep, about the big boomers ...

Running and gunning the heavy recoiling Magnum guns in our youth can start to come back to haunt us as we age, and the accumulated wear & tear finally stars to make itself felt. It's not at all uncommon for aging 1911 shooters to develop a sudden appreciation of 9's as they reach their golden years.
 
ARGH!! Hipster?!? Might as well call it a Gat and act cool with pretend bravado ... sigh ...

It's due to all the Youtube vids posted by twenty somethings sporting neck beards and lumberjack plaid, extolling the virtues of the old 3rd Gen. pistol they just acquired. I've seen them at the range as well, acting as if they've just discovered something mysterious that no one else has ever seen. It's actually pretty amusing. These days, show up in cop circles with a pistol that isn't made of plastic and they act like you've just walked out of an old black and white movie.

Speaking of extractors: if anyone knows where I can pick up a spare please let me know. I'd like to have an extra on hand, as I became used to the practice when I carried a 1911. It's the only part I can see that might become a wear item down the road.
 
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The only time in my entire life a cop ever offered to buy pizza at a fire station and I'm in a completely different time zone! There ain't no justice...

Happy to help with the parts. I also have Paul making guide rods for my 4046TSW and the 4516 upper that I'm using on my 4506 lower, but since the 4516 has dual recoil springs he needed my original rod as a prototype so my 4506 is back in stock form again with the original 5" barrel until he can get me the new rods in the mail.

For me, I think a 5906 might be next...

I'll have them eat a slice to your good health. :)

I've always wanted a 1006, but acquiring this 4506 has really stoked the fire under that desire.
 
Running and gunning the heavy recoiling Magnum guns in our youth can start to come back to haunt us as we age, and the accumulated wear & tear finally stars to make itself felt.

Well, I'm surprised I can still hear anything after all the Magnum handloads I shot, growing up, before I finally wised up & started using hearing protection. Maybe all those ear infections I had as a child toughened them up. :eek: :p

.
 
It's due to all the Youtube vids posted by twenty somethings sporting neck beards and lumberjack plaid, extolling the virtues of the old 3rd Gen. pistol they just acquired. I've seen them at the range as well, acting as if they've just discovered something mysterious that no one else has ever seen. It's actually pretty amusing. These days, show up in cop circles with a pistol that isn't made of plastic and they act like you've just walked out of an old black and white movie.

Speaking of extractors: if anyone knows where I can pick up a spare please let me know. I'd like to have an extra on hand, as I became used to the practice when I carried a 1911. It's the only part I can see that might become a wear item down the road.

Those are still one of the parts that S&W ought to have, if only in their KY parts facility. Like the other small parts, they were available in both plain stainless and black (just a cosmetic preference).

If you ever decide you need to replace one, email me. I can offer some info. If you're any kind of a machinist, or can have a good one do the work for you, I can give you the Go/No-Go dimensions for the bar gauge used in filing/fitting the .45 3rd gen extractor. It's used as a simple block gauge to check the distance from the L/side of the breech face to the inside edge of the extractor hook, as the adjustment pad is filed down on the inside of the extractor (allowing the hook to reach increasingly inward). Most extractors are over-sized (on the adjustment pad) and will require judicious filing to make the hook have the proper reach.

The extractor spring tension is a bit more costly to check properly, as it requires buying a Wagner Force Dial Gauge ($150?) that reads in the low/single digit LBS range using the correct hooked extension, which is used to pull on the extractor hook, pulling the extractor out to the extractor's deflection point (against spring tension). There's a recommended range (min/max) for the tension/lbs. There are some optional extractor springs available that armorers/techs could use to get any particular extractor to fall within the correct range in any particular slide.

The 3rd gen extractors were pretty robust, though, and especially the .45/10 extractors. Unless someone abuses one by making it a practice of dropping the slide on a round dropped directly into the chamber, it takes some years and some thousands of rounds to start to wear one. I've seen 3rd gen extractors continue to function normally even after showing chipping (but it's obviously best to replace a chipped one, to restore the extractor to normal spec ;) ).
 
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"Keep in mind 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide"

I don't think I'd drink the KoolAid to that extent, but they are certainly built to last. When the 3rd Gens were first introduced I remember thinking how solid they felt, definitely built to last.

The younger generation seems to be discovering these old guns and considers them to be pretty cool, having been raised on plastic fantastics. In law enforcement circles they're called "hipster guns" now.

Here are some of the reasons why the 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide.

Materials. In house metallurgy of S&W has been a technological marvel, and it shows by their stainless and carbon steel, as well as their 7000 series aluminum, that this many years later their pistols are still in working order, and still looking sharp.

Machining/Craftsmanship. In their time, Beretta was limited in offering their 92/96 with alloy lower only. Neither carbon steel, nor stainless. Sig Sauer was still in the post war German philosophy of stamped welded steel sheets, usually without proper matching of the slide/frame rail length next to the hammers and at the dust cover looking at the gun from the sides. S&W had all sorts of metals involved, excellent machining consistency, and their fit and finish was second to none.

Innovation/ Ergonomics. All magazines from the first gen 2 digit models fit and function with the last 3rd gem piece produced. Yes, others do that now, but these guys did it waaaaaaay back then. (first wonder-nine M 59 1970-71) Also parts interchangeability among models, and calibers!!!! Interchangeable flat and straight back strap grips. All shooters know that a grip that fits improves accuracy, yet this is a trend that many manufacturers have not mastered yet, 3 decades later. Sights fixed or adjustable. Need I mention a certain manufacturer whose sights until recently were plastic that had to be broken off to be replaced if needed?

Safety Features. Need I say anything here? OK, I will. It is not called "S&W leg" in the end... Yet, most people cry about the magazine disconnect (which can be removed properly in ten minutes, or removed the quick, ugly way in 1 minute with a cigarette lighter and a wire hook).

Model/Caliber availability. To this day, I am pretty certain no other manufacturer has offered more models in size/caliber/finish/trigger system variations, than the 3rd gem S&W. 66 models are mentioned on the nomenclature configuration chart alone. Without the special runs. Who else claims that?? Maybe I am wrong, so someone correct me please.

Design. Well, here as most people know, the 3rd gems are descendants of the model 39. The 39 was based on the two best designs of the past, the M 1911 and the P 38. With a fully enclosed symmetrical draw bar, and a factory short trigger reset matched only by some 1911s, a proprietary bushing that does a great job aligning the barrel, and a feed ramp that consistently feeds empty brass from the magazine. What more to ask for?

I know someone may jump and say but the x,y,z, brand/model is equal or better, but here is why the 3rd gems were the epitome of pistols. they did all that at the price that a working man could afford!! American industry at its best example!!!
So, my friend, you may not drink a koolAid to my statement, and I accept and respect it. But for the aforementioned reasons, I have had a case of Sam Adams to that statement.

As for the hipsters finding out about these guns, I am not pro hipster, but I can not deny their +1 for their insight. And I thought they were too lost in their I phones.... lol :)
 
Golden years? That's rust, not gold.


Running and gunning the heavy recoiling Magnum guns in our youth can start to come back to haunt us as we age, and the accumulated wear & tear finally stars to make itself felt. It's not at all uncommon for aging 1911 shooters to develop a sudden appreciation of 9's as they reach their golden years.
 
1989 Prices

... they did all that at the price that a working man could afford!! American industry at its best example!!!

I agree, they were, & are fine pieces. Even my younger son appreciates their craftmanship & quality. Last time I showed him my latest find he said " It's hard to believe you can buy an all metal gun in that good of condition for that price these days."

That said, back in the day, these weren't cheap pistols. A 4506 back in 1989 had a MSRP of $701, which is $1434 in today's dollars. A 6" 629 would "only" be $509 then. Big money for a hard working man with a family.

Buy them while they're still resonable. ;)

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Price List cover - 1989
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629 - 1989 Price List
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4506 - 1989 Price List
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In my first armorer class we were told the "gap" between the outside of the frame and the inside of the slide stop's lever ought to be such that a normal business card can slip under it, or even a folded (once) business card. Ideally, the gap ought to be uniform from front to back.

If a lever were to become too "tight" against the frame at the rear, the lever could drag on the frame and possibly interfere with the lever's freedom of movement.

Some occasional drag marks on a particular frame were said to be considered normal, and only cosmetic, if a lever's angle was on the tighter end of the normal tolerance range, as long as the lever's gap (with the frame) was even and the lever wasn't prevented from lifting when lifted by the mag follower, and would be pushed downward by normal tension between the front of the sideplate and the lever's plunger/spring (to prevent it from rising under recoil and causing early slide lock).

Too wide of a gap from the frame, though, and at some point the lever's plunger might jump outward, slipping off the outside of the sideplate. (Meaning the small angled plate formed at the front of the sideplate.)

The gap in one of your pics looks a bit wide (but it's just a pic, and I couldn't pretend to know without handling it and seeing it).

How can a slide stop lever become bent? Well, recoil forces travel through metal in all directions, and we were told that it was sometimes possible that a lot of use, and hot ammo, might sometimes cause a slide stop lever to eventually acquire an inward or outward bend. (This presumes someone hasn't actually damaged it, meaning bending it.)

The angle between the slide stop's lever and its (frame) pin ought to be 90 degrees. (Looking "down" on it, as it were.)

In my first 3rd gen armorer class we were told to keep an eye on the gap between the slide stop lever and frame, especially if we were shooting a lot of +P or +P+ loads (the discussion was about the 59XX series guns). If we came across a lever that had acquired an excessive inward or outward bend, we were shown how to put the lever assembly in a vise and whack it with a lead babbitt (NOT a hammer) to restore the 90 degree angle. :eek:

Thanks again for writing this. I was having the same issue with my 645 (slide stop ending up outside the slide), and my gap was uneven, wider gap near the back. Careful tapping with a brass punch with the lever in a soft-jawed vice brought my lever right back to 90. I actually over-did it, should have listened, and had to tap it back, so for anyone else reading, less is more, a little goes a long way, try a few taps, and if that is not enough, only then try a few more.

Now I just need to work on the gritty trigger, and the gun will be perfect. I found a few posts on that subject, looking forward to trying them out!

Thanks again, it's posts like this that keep the flame alive, especially in this throw-away society!

P.S. the images in your full post no longer show up, you might want to re-link them for the next person that comes looking.
 
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