Problem with M&P 10mm + Customer Service Nightmare

[shocker]

Getting back to the nature of the post, yes, absolutely - any respectable 10mm pistol needs to handle full-power 10mm loads.

I don't put that requirement on mine. More (a lot more) range ammo gets shot than nuclear loads. I have a G29 and while the stock spring will work with full power 10 mm the brass gets ejected into the next county. I'd rather not batter the frame with that kind of slide velocity so I have a stiffer spring for the full power stuff.

 

[mark_lives_things]

All excellent advice that the OP seems to have skipped over.

A few things:
-10mm ammo isn't exactly cheap or easily accessible these days. What would be the point of buying a bunch of expensive, light ammo that I have no intention of ever using in the field and testing my gun with that? Even if my pistol functioned fine with that ammo, that wouldn't solve or diagnose my problem: it would remain an intolerable issue that my pistol can't handle heavier ammo. Again, there's literally no point to a 10mm if you're only going to shoot light ammo through it -- if that's the kind of ammo you want to shoot, a .40 is a much more practical choice.

-This customer service experience is already miserable, but I imagine it would be going even worse if I had attempted to play gunsmith. I'm certainly not a gunsmith, and I'm sure I'd get blamed for any problems my pistol has if I'd started taking it apart beyond field stripping.

 

[mark_lives_things]

Shouldn't there be a minimum number of posts before you can start complaining?

Is there something wrong with this thread??

 

[CA Escapee]

All excellent advice that the OP seems to have skipped over.

And S&W as well. Should the OP have to troubleshoot the problem for S&W? Are they going to listen to him if he finds the problem?

I've sent a revolver back with a problem. (Cylinder scuffing the forcing cone.) I also wanted them to do their Master Revolver Package (MRP) on it.

After several weeks I called them to find out if they fixed the problem. The response from the employee: I don't understand it, they should have sent you a letter explaining the problem and the cost to fix it. This took two calls to get a letter.

Once I got the pistol back it had the MRP done, but the cylinder still scuffed the forcing cone. Sent it back again with the same result. (Multiple calls.) They knew where it was, but didn't know the status, or why it wasn't fixed. (Same song, different verse.)

Finally got it back and it's ok now.

 

[mark_lives_things]

And S&W as well. Should the OP have to troubleshoot the problem for S&W? Are they going to listen to him if he finds the problem?

That's another frustrating part of this: they have decidedly *not* listened to me at any point in this process. They're not even reading the information that I was told to provide to them, and they're even less curious (if that's possible) about other information I've offered to share, such as the videos.

It's truly maddening.

 

[Jim Watson]

I would replace the magazine catch. Unfortunately I cannot find one on the www. There is a used .45 part on eBay. For $5 + $4.50 it might be worth a try; the warranty clerk obviously does not know what is going on.

 

[Frank Black]

Of course there's a risk to being an earlier adopter of anything, but 1) somebody's gotta do it and 2) it's the company's responsibility to fix the problems that the early adopters bring to the company's attention.
My grievance is not that the pistol is defective. My grievance is that I still have a defective pistol after three months, two trips back to factory, and countless hours spent trying to get S&W to fix my gun.

And that’s very sad to hear.

Especially since this isn’t S&W’s first rodeo with the 10mm AUTO.

Over time, their 10XX-series pistols were generally considered the best all-steel semi-autos in that caliber ever made, maybe excluding certain 1911-platform 10mms.

 

[LCC]

No one should have to gunsmith a brand new handgun . If it fails to fire and cycle properly from the git go it is a lemon and should be returned as one. And if a new handgun design is problematic, it will certainly show up in the first batches before production revision.
Smith has some EZ on recall right now, with a very serious problem:

M&P SHIELD® EZ® PISTOL IMPORTANT SAFETY RECALL NOTICE FOR PISTOLS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN MARCH 1ST, 2020 AND OCTOBER 31ST, 2020

Smith & Wesson has identified two M&P Shield EZ Pistols on which the hammers manufactured by our supplier were cracked. In those firearms, the hammer failed to fully engage the sear, causing the round to fire, cycling the slide, and potentially resulting in multiple discharges without depressing the trigger.

 

[Inusuit]

I don't understand ragging on Mark for all the things he should have done or tried from different ammo to tinkering with the gun to waiting a year to buy it. S&W should have sold him a functioning handgun and when they did not, they should have done everything possible to fix it. His point is good that if he had worked on the pistol, it might have voided the apparently worthless warranty.

I don't think there is or should be a minimum number of posts before "you can complain." I have read much more vitriolic diatribes from members here with with hundreds of posts. Mark has been respectful and low key given the level of frustration he must feel. If this is not a place one can discuss S&W failures, where do you suggest he go?

 

[dla]

And S&W as well. Should the OP have to troubleshoot the problem for S&W? Are they going to listen to him if he finds the problem?

.

As a matter of fact - YES. Pretty obvious from the lack of results that it is prudent for the user to put some effort (and common sense) into debugging the problem.
Why do so many newbies think that complaining on a forum is a substitute for individual responsibility?

Having said that, the OP should:

1. Get someone else to shoot the pistol
2. Try some different ammo

 

[mark_lives_things]

As a matter of fact - YES. Pretty obvious from the lack of results that it is prudent for the user to put some effort (and common sense) into debugging the problem.
Why do so many newbies think that complaining on a forum is a substitute for individual responsibility?

Having said that, the OP should:

1. Get someone else to shoot the pistol
2. Try some different ammo

Neither of those things will fix my gun.

 

[mark_lives_things]

Also, something I said on Twitter that bears repeating here: I gave S&W every opportunity to fix this before I complained about it publicly and posted the videos. The only reason that I'm going public with this is that I don't have any other options at this point. I just want my problem taken seriously and addressed, and I'm done being gaslighted or blown off with various excuses.

 

[gnystrom]

Sorry about your problems. My coworker owns one and has not had one issue with his various handloads. Can you fire the gun leaving your forefinger off the grip? Run your video in slow motion and see if there is any contact with the mag release and your forefinger. Any contact might be causing the problem.
I cannot get the slide to lock back on my P365 unless I shoot it lin my left hand.

 

[mark_lives_things]

.Can you fire the gun leaving your forefinger off the grip?

I'm sorry, I don't follow -- that's my trigger finger. (?)

 

[WR Moore]

Of course there's a risk to being an earlier adopter of anything, but 1) somebody's gotta do it and 2) it's the company's responsibility to fix the problems that the early adopters bring to the company's attention.

My grievance is not that the pistol is defective. My grievance is that I still have a defective pistol after three months, two trips back to factory, and countless hours spent trying to get S&W to fix my gun.

I understand that, but the problem is that if THEY can't reproduce the problem, it's most difficult for them to fix it. The only way the multiple sets of extractor springs for the 1000 series came about was multiple complaints. Possibly including having samples that demonstrated the problem at the factory.

When we adopted the M&P40 some folks had a similar problem. For most it wasn't the gun, it was something in their grip and it was a trial and error thing to discover it as it wasn't readily visible. There was a redesigned mag catch introduced later. Perhaps there will be here.

Added material: I've no idea what passes for 10 mm ammo from major manufacturers these days, but it'd be what S&W used in development and test firing. You might ask and try some. As others have noted, using boutique ammo (OK, S&B isn't boutique, but everyone has the occasional bad batch) and then blaming the gun has it's own problems. What YOU think the gun should run with wasn't a design factor. Have you by any chance contacted S&B?

 

[Frank Black]

I'm sorry, I don't follow -- that's my trigger finger. (?)

LOL! Yes, guns aren’t known to fire without proper trigger manipulation ... which, typically, involves that particular digit known as the “trigger finger.”

 

[M29since14]

Mark, have you in fact asked another experienced pistol shooter (or two, or three) to give your gun a try? In your situation, that is one thing I would do. It’s possible there is something about the way you hold the weapon that is causing the problem. If other shooters have the same difficulty, at least you know that much and can be reasonably sure your grip is not causing the problem.

If you can’t easily replace the magazine catch, which seems like a good thought, a different approach might be to add a Hogue Handall or something similar to the gun and see if that changes anything. That might help stabilize your hold on the gun, in case it is shifting enough on recoil to cause the magazine to be released. It’s a cheap experiment.

Hope you get your M&P 10 operating satisfactorily soon. Good luck!

 

[Rlg#17]

I have tried to like the polymer Smiths, but just cannot do it. I have at last count owned 7 of them to date. The longest one was owned for just shy of 6 months. Various calibers, barrel lengths, frame sizes. I don’t own a 10mm, and won’t even try one after having owned the previous half dozen.

Warranty has been part of the reason for some of the issues I had with some of those pistols so I feel for you there. It appears to me that they just aren’t listening when you call about an issue…

I started with S&W back inthe early70’s, was even fortunate to make it to the factory and learned how to repair revolvers and semi-autos. They are not the same company as back then for sure!

I will tell you that the brand G models, 20, 29, and 40 that I have run everything I want all the time. Never had any issues with them at all. Ide take a 1006 or variation before I took a polymer Smith 10.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you!

Regards,
Rick Gibbs

 

[2wheels]

Full mag, chambering from magazine. So 14+1.

Full mag - as in 15, and the loading one off the top by manually racking the slide? Just asking.

 

[luvsmiths]

That's another frustrating part of this: they have decidedly *not* listened to me at any point in this process. They're not even reading the information that I was told to provide to them, and they're even less curious (if that's possible) about other information I've offered to share, such as the videos.

It's truly maddening.

REPLACE NOTHING on your own. That's what they would love. They don't look at your information, and video's because they don't want the information.

They want plausible deniability.

Put this all over the net wherever you can. Put your vids and info on you tube. Find some grade school kid- he'll have the stuff come up anytime someone punches "Smith and Wesson" into a search engine! Let everyone see it. S&W is a shell of what they once were. It's all about the money now. CS has gone out the door. Buy American? To be treated like THIS.

Deal with Glock CS sometime. They would have taken care of this immediately. Many others the same.