Proper jargon - is a model 14 a K38?

[petemacmahon]

I was always of the opinion that the Ks(K22, K32, K38) went the way of the dodo bird when model numbering started. But I run into people all the time that call their model 14 a K38. To me, NO, that's not a K38.

What do all you'all think?

 

[22hipower]

I suppose K38 Masterpiece (or K22 or K32 Masterpiece) is correct for the pre-model number guns. Many folks, myself included, often refer to them as pre-14s (16s, 17s) which I know is like fingernails on a blackboard to some people. Don't think there is anything wrong with calling the later ones K38s though; they're K frame 38s. A rose by any other name still smells the same. . . . I try not to get too worked up about it.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[steelslaver]

To me a model 15 or 14 is still a K38. K38 is a name model 14 is a designation.
But, then I am not a purists

 

[JP@AK]

The best way to answer the question is to look at what the company was calling them from 1958 onward (that is the year model numbered guns actually started shipping to dealers).

Take a look at this picture of a Model 14-2 that shipped in 1967. The spec sheet that shipped with it, clearly seen in the picture, should answer your question.

Here's how it worked. When the company assigned model numbers, they were added to the existing names. A Combat Magnum was still a Combat Magnum but it was now also a Model 19. A Highway Patrolman was now a Highway Patrolman Model 28. Etc.

 

[JP@AK]

Don't think there is anything wrong with calling the later ones K38s though; they're K frame 38s.

Well, yes, Jeff. But all K frame .38 revolvers are not K-38s and never were. The K-38 was always and only the designation for the postwar, K frame .38 Special, with the adjustable rear sight and a 6" barrel (admitting that there were some special order 5" barrels in the mid-1950s).

 

[Babysitr]

I don't even care...but I hope a nice one comes my way soon! don't yet own a model 14, I mean K38.....

 

[DWalt]

Yes, S&W's advertising uses the "Model XXX, Name" format. So "Model 14 K-38 Masterpiece " is correct.

 

[22hipower]

Well, yes, Jeff. But all K frame .38 revolvers are not K-38s and never were. The K-38 was always and only the designation for the postwar, K frame .38 Special, with the adjustable rear sight and a 6" barrel (admitting that there were some special order 5" barrels in the mid-1950s).

Thought we were homed in on the 14s/16s/17s but that is a clarification that should be made. Wonder though what we should call a 15-6 with six inch barrel? That would seem to be a K38 too even though it is a Model 15.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[OLDSTER]

To me, the K38 designation refers to the pre-1957 Combat Masterpiece introduced in 1949.

 

[handejector]

To me, the K38 designation refers to the pre-1957 Combat Masterpiece introduced in 1949.

Except that the Factory NEVER called the Combat Masterpiece a "K-38". They simply called it a "Combat Masterpiece". After the 22 CM was introduced, they called it a "38 Combat Masterpiece", and the 22 was the "22 Combat Masterpiece".

 

[rct269]

One of our colleagues noted he was not a purist----and that's all well and good. I'm pretty sure nothing's chiseled in stone anywhere about what we're supposed to call any particular handgun-----other than in my mind, of course.

The first model number I ever saw was 19. It was on the box of this shiny new gun I was about to buy. It was in small print. Right up above it, in BIG print, it said COMBAT MAGNUM. That's what I was going to buy. I suspect, had all it said was Model 19---no matter in what size print----I suspect I'd probably have bought a PYTHON------has a certain ring to it---kinda like COMBAT MAGNUM.

Well, I bought it, took it home, and put it on the shelf. I told folks it was a COMBAT MAGNUM. They said it was a pretty neat gun.

It wasn't too long after that, that I heard folks talking about Model 19's, and Model this, and Model that. I thought about that some, and decided it was sad they didn't know what the names of these guns were.

Then----then pretty much everything went straight to Hell in a handbasket!! Folks started calling the early guns like a COMBAT MAGNUM---started calling them "Pre-Model 19's---and Pre Model this---and Pre Model that. More often than not I didn't know what they were talking about----had to look it up.

Then I got mad, not because I had to look stuff up; but because these "Pre-Model" this and that folks didn't seem to care enough to learn and use the proper names.

I'm still mad. I guess that makes me one of those purists.

(Oh, and by the way, a K-38 is a K frame .38 Special Target gun with a 6" barrel. Another K frame .38 Special target grade gun with a 4" barrel is a Combat Masterpiece. It's actually alright with me some folks either don't know that or don't care. The folks who don't know can find out easy enough, and as far as the folks who don't care go, well that's just sad.)

Ralph Tremaine

I see Lee beat me to it with this K-38 and Combat Masterpiece business. Good on you, Sir!

 

[2K7]

I don't know......

.....what you call this thing, but I sure like it!

1957 Illinois State Police Contract, 5 inch barrel, .38 Special.

 

[hkcavalier]

If clarity is the goal, it makes the most sense to call the non-model marked guns by their name and all model marked guns by their model and revision (if any).

If a friend was asking me to come check out their new-to-them K-38, and I show up and it's a 14-5 full lug with factory combats, even if not technically incorrect it would seem *weird* to me.

 

[murphydog]

.....what you call this thing, but I sure like it!

1957 Illinois State Police Contract, 5 inch barrel, .38 Special.

A wide rib bull barrel - K-38 Masterpiece (like yours).
A narrow rib tapered barrel - .38 Combat Masterpiece (like the MSHP contract guns).
Clear as mud.

 

[Engine49guy]

When it comes to S&W nomenclature sometimes it is difficult to have absolute rules as there is usually some exception to that rule.

IMO it is generally understood that if you say K-38 you are referring to a post war K target site revolver in .38 Special caliber and usually one made prior to model numbers otherwise you would just say a Model 14, 15 etc.

While there are pre war K frame target site revolvers usually people dont call them " K-38's" , (BTW IIRC those were called .38 M&P target revolvers).
The exception is with the pre war K-22 Outdoorsman and K-22 Masterpiece which people refer to as pre war K-22's all the time.

On a side note the in house factory designation for the Combat Magnum (AKA Model 19), was the KT .357 for "K frame Target options .357".

Using this logic you would think the .44 Magnum (AKA Model 29) internal designation would have been "NT .44" but you would be wrong... it was actually "NT 430" which stood for "N frame Target Options with a bore of 0.430 inch " which was the actual size of its bore.

What does this all mean ?
Not much really but it is fun to chat about.

 

[UncleEd]

Time to clarify:

The K-38 Masterpiece was clip fed and
capable of single acton and double action
fire.

The Model 14 was magazine fed and capable
of SA/DA but also full auto.

 

[Green Frog]

L don't know about the rest of you guys, but if somebody tells me they have a K-38, I expect to see an adjustable sighted 38 Special revolver on the K sized frame. If it's late enough for the factory to have added Model Number markings, that's all well and good, but if it's a K-38, it's a 6" target revolver on S&W's medium frame, and everything else is just noise.

As usual, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it!"

Froggie

 

[22hipower]

L don't know about the rest of you guys, but if somebody tells me they have a K-38, I expect to see an adjustable sighted 38 Special revolver on the K sized frame. If it's late enough for the factory to have added Model Number markings, that's all well and good, but if it's a K-38, it's a 6" target revolver on S&W's medium frame, and everything else is just noise.

As usual, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it!"

Froggie

Ok, but what do you call it if it is what you say except that it has an 8 3/8 inch barrel? Or is stamped 15-6 and has a six inch barrel? And does it really matter to anyone outside of our somewhat eccentric group?

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[cmansguns]

So what do you label mine?

K Frame, in fact the first "hand ejector"
38 caliber
DA or SA...your choice
"bred" for Combat (US Army)
too early for Model 14
way too early for K38 Masterpiece
too early for even "pre 14"

Guess I'll just keep calling it a Smith & Wesson, or "neat old piece".

All above...…….very, very tongue in cheek folks.

 

[diecidecimi]

Thought we were homed in on the 14s/16s/17s but that is a clarification that should be made. Wonder though what we should call a 15-6 with six inch barrel? That would seem to be a K38 too even though it is a Model 15.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Maybe I'm wrong, but a M15 even six inched, will have a Baughman front sight. For this reason it will be a M15 again. The scarce M14 4" barreled had a Patridge foresight, and for this reason it wasn't a M15.....