Puma attacks

[Whitwabit]

Just an article in out local paper this week about a female adult being killed by game wardens in Iowa. Quite a few sightings in Missouri, and Illinois fave finally acknowledged several sightings in IL. It was originally thought only the roaming males were in these Midwest states, but now females are seen so it looks like we will have some permanent cats.

There have been reports of a large cat in the area for the past 10 years or so .. very large number of White Tail Deer all thru the area so game for them is abundant .. woods all along the Illinois river and creeks feeding it give plenty of cover ..

Myself and 2 others saw a large animal crossing a 4 lane road along a park with the river just 300 yards to the east .. we were all in different cars going to work one morning at 2:30 AM .. we asked each other when we got to work if the others had seen it and all did .. was tan in color and had a long solid tail .. that was back in 2000 ..

 

[rwsmith]

Sounds like one O them...

There have been reports of a large cat in the area for the past 10 years or so .. very large number of White Tail Deer all thru the area so game for them is abundant .. woods all along the Illinois river and creeks feeding it give plenty of cover ..

Myself and 2 others saw a large animal crossing a 4 lane road along a park with the river just 300 yards to the east .. we were all in different cars going to work one morning at 2:30 AM .. we asked each other when we got to work if the others had seen it and all did .. was tan in color and had a long solid tail .. that was back in 2000 ..

Sounds like one O them cow-gars.

 

[Absalom]

Yep - Hard to convince people of this but every once in a while i encounter some gun laden neophyte who is 'protecting himself from cougars and bears'! - I usually tell them if they are that concerned then stay out of the woods.

Very well said. While we read of cougar and bear attacks, snake bites, falls off cliffs, etc, the chances of that happening are slim. One thing I learned during a career in the Corps: no point in worrying about dying or getting wounded. It won't change the odds.

I think the key is balance. People lose sight of proportionality, and obsess about certain threats while disregarding others.

Part of the reason is psychological. A cougar tearing into you triggers a much more primeval fear than the idea of dying from hypothermia because you broke your leg and weren't prepared, even though, a few miles into the wilderness, the latter is much more likely to kill you than a wild animal.

We also tend to focus on threats if we are interested in the "countermeasures". Here on the forum we are all into guns and knives, so we focus on how those can help.

It's the same with home safety. We like to worry about home invasions and intruders, because that's where our guns come into play. But there is a danger of a skewed view of reality. If you have guns stashed in strategic places and sleep with an AR next to your bed, but don't have a funtioning fire extinguisher and first aid kit in the house and don't know CPR, your safety plan is seriously out of whack.

So I don't think at all it's a bad idea to be prepared, including being armed with handgun and knife, and being aware of all dangers. But stuff happens, and not just in the outdoors; there are risks everywhere. Walking down the street, getting run over by a texting-and-driving teenager, is probably more likely than a cougar attack.

If you walk through the woods like a SEAL team that has just been inserted into ISIS territory, always on edge and expecting to be ambushed any second by a man-eating cougar, you're just not going to have much fun.

 

[30-30remchester]

It was mentioned that if you take a gun to defend yourself you should stay out of the woods. That type of philosophy if believed and practice would have you spending your life in a concrete cell. Whether in the woods or in the city there is danger. How you choose to deal with it is personal preference. But belittling someone who chooses to be proactive may not be the best thing to do because you might need his assistance some day. It has also been mentioned that a gun will do little to no good because cougars attack from behind. Sometimes maybe. It would be interesting to take a poll of respondents who have ever seen a cougar and of those how many were fleeting glimpses. As to them always coming from above and behind is stating lack of actual experience. I have been within 20' of one for several minutes and have seen a few and they were facing me not above me. Two different experienced hunters have came upon a cougar on a fresh kill and they were both challenged by the eye level cat. No the danger is not always from above and behind from a cat. And for carrying a gun for bears again I wonder how many have ever seen a bear up close outside of a zoo. I challenge anyone to get closer to a black bear than I have. While sitting on a bucket getting my fishing gear ready in Alaska, I sensed something behind me. I turned and got a wet nose on my cheek from a campground bear. He was quite accustomed to humans, I was not accustomed to him though. He wasn't startled but this 16 year old kid was. Later that summer I had a black bear start to climb in the shell camper a friend and I were sleeping in. I do not know what convinced him to retreat, whether it was the fact we had not bathed in 3 months or our franticly kicking him in the face or the fact we were screaming like little girls, but he did leave. So call me anything but a neophyte because I have been there, done that, and have scars to prove it. If you choose to go unarmed, that is your choice, but do not poke fun at people who are prepared for something that may never happen.

 

[Mistered]

It was mentioned that if you take a gun to defend yourself you should stay out of the woods.

Whether this was directed at what I said or someone else I do not know - however I will clarify it for the 'good of the order' - IF someone carries while in the woods that is fine - I advocate it - providing one is comfortable, competent and safety conscious at all times with the choice of carry. There are potential dangers in the woods that need to be considered - and the judicious carry of a firearm could give one an edge if confronted by a 'danger'
HOWEVER
If one is carrying PRIMARILY out of fear of wildlife then maybe this person should reconsider their reasons for being in the woods.
I have spent literally most of my free time in life in the woods - and still do - hiking, backpacking, fishing, hunting, Jeeping, relic hunting (another story) but my point is I have rarely allowed an irrational fear of ANYTHING be my primary reason for carrying.
Do I carry while in the wood? Yes most of the of the time but there have been times I have not carried due to the particular situation as it might not necessarily be practical or acceptable.
The woods for me is not a 'novelty' as it might be for some but more like a way of life as the National Forest is literally out my front door and within minutes from my property I can be in areas most only dream about.
In conclusion the woods presents it's own dangers but hardly anything more than might be encountered in any one of a number of urban areas in any city in the US - and is most likely SAFER than such. I would feel safer heading into the woods armed with nothing more than a pocketknife than to walk through say Compton, CA armed with an AR15.
Its all about the perception of the environment one needs to consider.
If one wants to head into the woods I hope it is for the grandeur, history, beauty and all that goes along with it - AND with a certain awareness of the dangers - and those are not necessarily animal related.

 

[Texas Star]

You can still hunt them here.

Did you take that cat? What'd it weigh? That looks like a BIG cougar!

What did you shoot it with?

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Did you take that cat? What'd it weigh? That looks like a BIG cougar!

What did you shoot it with?

No! No! Not me!
I wish it was me but it's not.
It's reported to be down around Ruidoso.
Here in NM most Lion hunting is done with dogs.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

In watching the show a question came to my mind - Why those people were unarmed?
Is it against the law to carry a handgun there, or were they naïve ?

AFAIK, the answer is yes.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Tiger country...

Being armed is not likely to help in a cougar attack. As others mentioned they prefer to attack from the rear and high. They pounce on their victims regardless of species. They stalk their prey. Unlike bears, they attack to get a meal, human or otherwise. They try to get a bite in the victims head or threat.

The best defense against a cougar attack is situational awareness. Attack from the rear and high is a clue to the terrain you must be most cautious in. Have a good knife because you might not get to shoot the animal if it attacks because you are wrestling it. A shot has to be incapacitating to stop the attack. However a gaping knife wound is going to have a greater affect than a bullet hole. The cougar will instantaneously know,itmis badly cut. That has a good chance of getting it break off the attack.

Ok, so how do I know what I just said. Here is how. My last two tours in Nam were as a battalion (not Force) recon Marine. We operated on our own and did not have the protection from animals that larger units have. Not a lot of predators want to wander into a company strength area.

We worked in four, eight, twelve, and sixteen man teams. Eight was the norm. We were in I Corps, the northern part of South VN. That is tiger country, and some Marines were attacked by tigers who like cougars will eat you. No fatalities that I know of but some serious injuries. Generally only a few of us had 1911s unless we carried M3 A1s with no bayonet fix. We toted KA Bars. And others had M7 bayonets.

We were told if we were attacked by a tiger to use the blade to slice into the cat as many times as possible because the cat would be deterred by the hacking. Now I cannot not attest to whether that works or not because I never had to fight a tiger. You can be assured I am really glad to not of had the experience.

Yep-we reportedly lost 12 KIA's to tigers, IIRC. We were on a typical roving patrol one night (Jeep Borne) and lit the lights to light up an open area (cleared) and there were these glowing eyes about 8 inches apart. Lights didn't reveal what was there, but we definitely hauled it outa' there-di di mau!

 

[Texas Star]

I guess this is a good place to recommend the books by Jim Corbett and Kenneth Anderson, about hunting man-eating cats in British colonial India.

My favorites include Corbett's, The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag and Anderson's, The Black Panther of Sivanipalli.

Unusually for British hunters, Anderson used an American rifle, a .405 Winchester. Corbett used .275's from Rigby and from Westley Richards and a Jeffery .450-400. After his death, Elmer Keith somehow got hold of the .400. It was sold at auction a couple of years ago, I think by the Julia house.

Rigby is again in business in London and owns Corbett's Rigby .275. For those who don't know, the .275 is just the 7X57mm Mauser loaded with John Rigby 's patented bullets. But Corbett often took it after tigers because it was lighter to carry than his heavy double rifle. He was probably a fantastic marksman.

He recalled that as a military cadet at school, the .450 Martini gave him problems with recoil. He did learn to shoot it well. On one occasion a stranger officer paused to coach him in a friendly manner. He learned that this man was none other than Lord Roberts! (A famous and popular Field Marshal.)

Corbett was born in 1875, so the Martini was still in use when he was a schoolboy. It was soon succeeded by the .303 rifles. I think his aversion to recoil as a young boy caused him to carry a .275 a lot, reserving the .400 and a .450 for occasions when he expected to meet the cat at close range and when he was in a machan or otherwise not having to walk much.

Both of these men had terrific courage and jungle skills. I've always wondered why Corbett, in particular, was never knighted. Today, Corbett National Park in India is named for him.

 

[Ray]

As a matter of fact the lion caught game ranger Wolhuter by the right shoulder and he had to reach for his sheated knife on his right hip, with his left hand.
Regards, Ray

 

[model70hunter]

Last year there was an article about a cougar that was trying to prey on a single mother and her children. They called the California game warden. He came by to explain the states position.

Basically he could do nothing unless the cat was in the act. He said if she shot it she would go to jail. The cat kept trying to catch them between the car and door. It would stand up on its hind legs and watch them through the windows. She was completely unnerved and a newspaper ran the story. The last follow up was the cat finally disappeared after a few weeks.

Big cats messing with families or livestock Would learn the 3 S's away from Ca.
Shoot, shovel and shutup.

There is something seriously wrong with the thought process of the CA leaders when they value a predator over the life of a child.

 

[rwsmith]

Good reason.....

Good reason to have a sheath knife or at least a spring blade knife (if allowed) in wild animal country.

 

[rwsmith]

Excellent write up there.....

I guess this is a good place to recommend the books by Jim Corbett and Kenneth Anderson, about hunting man-eating cats in British colonial India.

My favorites include Corbett's, The Man-Eating Leopard of Rudraprayag and Anderson's, The Black Panther of Sivanipalli.

Unusually for British hunters, Anderson used an American rifle, a .405 Winchester. Corbett used .275's from Rigby and from Westley Richards and a Jeffery .450-400. After his death, Elmer Keith somehow got hold of the .400. It was sold at auction a couple of years ago, I think by the Julia house.

Rigby is again in business in London and owns Corbett's Rigby .275. For those who don't know, the .275 is just the 7X57mm Mauser loaded with John Rigby 's patented bullets. But Corbett often took it after tigers because it was lighter to carry than his heavy double rifle. He was probably a fantastic marksman.

He recalled that as a military cadet at school, the .450 Martini gave him problems with recoil. He did learn to shoot it well. On one occasion a stranger officer paused to coach him in a friendly manner. He learned that this man was none other than Lord Roberts! (A famous and popular Field Marshal.)

Corbett was born in 1875, so the Martini was still in use when he was a schoolboy. It was soon succeeded by the .303 rifles. I think his aversion to recoil as a young boy caused him to carry a .275 a lot, reserving the .400 and a .450 for occasions when he expected to meet the cat at close range and when he was in a machan or otherwise not having to walk much.

Both of these men had terrific courage and jungle skills. I've always wondered why Corbett, in particular, was never knighted. Today, Corbett National Park in India is named for him.

These guys weren't just 'trophy hunters'. They operated in the worst conditions where the animal had the advantage of surprise and the ability to move in dense vegetation, often noiselessly. Indeed, taking on killer cats was damn dangerous. Notice that you don't hear about the hunters who got killed doing this. I think that the really good hunters aren't ashamed to admit that several days in wait has their nervous system trashed and they have to back off and recover before tackling it again.

It was ALMOST humorous when Patterson (The Lions of Tsavo) realized that waiting on a raised platform in the dark jungle put him in terrible danger from something that can see in the dark much better and could easily climb to him without having an escape route. He was more like bait than a hunter. And that in the 'trap' that he built the lions wouldn't wait behind the bars to be shot but were able to reach through and almost slice them to pieces until they were able to to break out.



Note how these guys are attacked in the open by a tiger that is invisible in knee-deep grass until he charges and springs straight for them, disregarding that they are on top of an elephant. I believe one man was mauled until the tiger was dispatched with a howdah pistol or some short but powerful weapon.