Pure Bred Dog Rant

[shouldazagged]

I think of dogs like any other tool. Get the right tool for the job.

That's exactly what I did. My middle-aged rat-terrier-mix rescue dog, the Holy Terrier, is the perfect tool for keeping me company, keeping me laughing, and keeping me walking so I don't lock up rigid.

He thinks of me as a fine tool for throwing stuff for him to fetch, helping him patrol the perimeter, and warming the bed.

The right tools for the right job.

But I sure admire your grouse dogs, and wish I could still hunt.

 

[DeathGrip]

Ding bat setters.

I was owned by an Irish Setter. She was anything but dumb. I believe the term is abstract thought. She could solve problems and make fun of you. The whole time running in circles. I had 20 minutes of tricks to show off to our guest.

She never fetched.

She was the easiest dog I ever trained.

Also, She was a protective guard dog.

 

[rojodiablo]

Here is an example of what I'm trying to say - no research on the sire or dam's lineage - you don't know what either one has in it's background for health issues, your boy has been healthy, but you don't what genetic issues he (or she) carries and will pass on, but they both look like labs to you (even though one is really tall and over weight, has none of the laidback lab qualities the standard calls for) no OFA xrays on hips to determine if there is any hip displasia, no PRA testing for genetic Renal failure, no history known of seizure in his or her line, but hell, lets breed em!! We can sell em cheap and make a fortune! What, you say your pup is sick - hell, I don't know what it is, call a Vet - your problem buddy, he's your dog now. I don't offer any guarantee at these prices. Must be something you fed him, cause I own the dad, and he is healthy.

Best to you in your quest.

Pete

Quite the opposite. I'm not looking for a dog so inbred that it reads like a Mississippi love affair. The dogs are both AKC dogs. Neither is a 'show dog' in the sense that they are pure hunting dogs. We got them together BECAUSE both were very healthy, and had the traits we were looking for in labs.
To insinuate that my dog is overweight is retarded. He's uncut, and as such he is VERY energetic. He hit his stride weight-wise at 2-3 years. He's held right between 86 and 93lb for the last 6 years running. The hills we hunt are the edges of the Sierras; the dog covers probably 800-1500 vertical feet in a day, and my GPS shows us hiking around 9 miles give or take, in elevation from 3600-5500ft. Stains is no slob.
As it has been, most of the dogs we hunt with ARE related to the parents, and so my friends and I have had to look elsewhere to find other good labs to breed them out with.

I do not care about a show dog. My dogs are meant to get dirt under their nails, and thorns in their hides. When we are out, he sleeps with me in the tent, he eats with us, and I would not have it any other way. He's probably the only lab you will ever hear of who has gone hog hunting.

But how does he stack up against show dogs? he handles himself quite nicely, thank you.

 

[S&W Fan]

Just echoing the sentiments regarding shelter/rescues. I've shown my pup before, now 3-got her 2 years ago, Lab/Rottie mix. Very healthy, great watch dog and once I let someone in, she turns into a 75lb lap dog. Loves kids, women (like me lol), my family members, big dogs & puppies especially. I'd be lost without her. I've had 3 pure breds in my life (I'm 57)-a mini-schnauzer when I was a kid, GSD and a Rottie. This one is the best.

 

[Pete99004]

But how does he stack up against show dogs? he handles himself quite nicely, thank you.

I'm quite sure that he does and didn't wish to infer anything else. I was trying to point out that he didn't fit the standard for the breed - per your description of him - not that he can't hunt or isn't a good companion or wasn't athletic. I was also trying to point out how breeds get issues. When humans don't look into the lineage of the dog that they intend to breed to, or have a long term relationship with their own dogs lineage, they are rolling the dice. A high quality breeder would never look for a mate to breed their dogs to in that manner, nor would they risk all the work they have put into developing their line by breeding to anyones dog that was not genetically tested for everything possible. There are to many problems that will skip one, two or even more generations, only to pop back up down the road.

When you say - "If anyone has a very nice lady lab who needs a boyfriend, I would love to get the dogs together!!! Let me know. Thanks, Paul." - that leads me to think that your not doing any background research or genetic testing. You will only be able to state with any certainty that your litter is a litter of AKC registered lab pups. You won't be able to honestly tell a prospective buyer that these pups are clear of any of the genetic defects inherent to that breed of dog.

That is all I was trying to say. No offense was intended.

Pete

PS - I would like to add that the only difference between the show dogs and the hunting dogs is the venue that the owner prefers the dog to work at. If a show dog is out hunting - it's a hunting dog and conversely, a hunting dog entered at a dog show is a show dog. The AKC standard is the same standard for that breed regardless of the venue the dog works at.

 

[A10]

Pure bred Doxie lap dog....

 

[Wheeler57]

Hope you find the dog that best suites you.

It's been my experience that the initial cost of a dog, whether it be $25, $250 or $2,500, pales in comparison to the time, money and dedication required to properly care for them through their lifetime. The decision to take on the responsibility of an animal should be carefully considered.

I am with Phil. Personally I would never get a purebred myself, primarily because there is going to be someone willing to buy them and give them a home. But I do not have a problem with those that do.
When the time comes for us to add a new dog to our lives there is always an unwanted puppy available. This has worked for us for 40 +/- years.
I do not want to participate in a "this is the best way to get a dog" argument. This process has served us well.
Best wishes to all dog owners. Just make sure you do a responsible job of your decision to become one.

 

[LouisianaJoe]

If you want to rescue a dog go to Pet adoption: Want a dog or cat? Adopt a pet on Petfinder

You can search by breed and location.

What ever you do, get a breed that matches your lifestyle. I am older and slower now so it would be an injustice for me to get a dog that needs a lot of exercise over a large area. I do not have access to that and a dog that does not have its needs satisfied will be trouble.

 

[shouldazagged]

I've only been on this forum since February. Does it usually get testy right after Christmas?

Just thought I'd ask.

 

[labworm]

Pure bred Doxie lap dog....

Gee, I was going to sign off and call it a night and had to see your pup.

Quit messing with my sleep.

 

[A10]

Gee, I was going to sign off and call it a night and had to see your pup.

Quit messing with my sleep.

AHAHAHAHA!

 

[Pete99004]

I've only been on this forum since February. Does it usually get testy right after Christmas?

Just thought I'd ask.

This is nothing - just wait and see what the new year brings in....whoa baby!!!

Pete

 

[rwsmith]

No purebreds

Mutts 'R Us - There are plenty of shelter dogs but if I were a breeder I'd find the best mongrels (disposition, smarts, desire to please, health, etc.) and breed the best mutts on the planet. There are entirely too many bad inherited traits in too many purebred dogs.

A little golden, a little collie, a little shepherd..... Hey! That might replicate my most loved dog!

 

[hangnoose]

PUREBREEDS

It had an opportunity to get a few pudelpointers from Sigbot "Bodo" Winterhelt, but the wife wanted a smaller dog with a softer coat and she didn't like the beards, like many of the newer breeds, navda types. We do love our Brittany's and they probably are a better fit for us. My hunting Buddy met & hit it off with Bodo, then in Ca, & got to spend app 6 weeks living / working at his ranch with him training 2 of his own Winterhelt bred dogs & others. The training lessons he learned were worth more than the cost of the dogs Imo app 6-800& each back in the late 80's. Bodo had an interesting life training dogs in 1930's Germany, developing the pudelpointer breed & bringing it finally to the US via Canada, then founding /cofounding NAVHDA. I thought he must have died as he had a type of cancer in 2003. Now I read he left NAVHDA app 2010? due to regulatory differences & formed a new organization, WOW, at his age? Anybody have any info? Hunting over a pair of his bred & trained dogs was a lifetime treat. The first year we used my buddies pudelpointers, less than 1 year old? They retrieved ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, quail, woodcock & practiced with live pigeons.

 

[quneur]

PS - I would like to add that the only difference between the show dogs and the hunting dogs is the venue that the owner prefers the dog to work at. If a show dog is out hunting - it's a hunting dog and conversely, a hunting dog entered at a dog show is a show dog. The AKC standard is the same standard for that breed regardless of the venue the dog works at.

I'm not saying the AKC is bad but their main focus has been breeding for show and conformation. They ran a few trials throughout the years but was never as popular as The American Field venues. Its only been since mid-1990 since the AKC has really been focused into getting breeds back to working status. The American Field, owners of the Field Dog Stud Book is older than AKC and only deals with gun dogs. As for different venue trials, all I know is that they are different. On another board, there were two judges discussing what they each look for and it was an interesting discussion; one looked for how they ran while the other looked at how they worked. But AF National Championship at Ames Plantation is the gold standard in field trials in any venue.

When AKC went back to focusing on field trials, there weren't much genetic trial stock. What helped was cross registration with FDSB. With Llewellins, I can cross register with AKC but only as an English Setter. The only reason people do is so that they may run trials as most would not make it in the show circut. I know my dog wouldn't as she is field setter, small, heavily chested, big bugged eyed, small head, etc. She looks very different from bench setters; enough so that it is almost a separate breed.

I do know the AKC had less genetic material to work from when it came to the Irish setters. FDSB had very few Irish registered so they went back and imported contenental breeds to breed back - Red Setters and their like. I never hunted behind one but do know some serious dog people who swear by them.

 

[Brian41]

I've had a lot of bird dogs over the years and most were papered or could have been. I'm a bird hunter and through my involvement with Pheasants Forever and other groups have met some good breeders of bird dogs.
I trusted them and their knowledge of dogs and breeding and have got dogs from such people. They may do field trials but mainly have been breeders for the working man dog and bred for the hunt.
I've been lucky that way and have had some fine dogs as pets and hunting partners too. I've looked at the breeder first and what they produce rather than being worried about papers and how many champions in their lineage. Dumb luck maybe but worked for me.

 

[BigBill]

My female
rottie I got when the PO couldn't carry her around anymore when she hit 70lbs. She never was given any exercise. After two leg operations and $2k later she became my best friend. At 145lbs and having curly hair she appeared to be a nufie rottie mix with the size of her chest and legs plus being 145lbs. I get all of my pets for free. This rottie was free but neglected. She passed on because of cancer at 10yo. I heard that large dogs lead short lives plus she wasn't healthy at the start.
My misses walks my 3yo lab everyday. You can see his muscle bulging from his fur. You can bet this one has no leg problems. Again another free pup that no one wanted. I tell every pet we get that they just hit the lottery. I look forward to getting another female rottie.

I tried to get a dog from a shelter by emailing them but I never get an answer. My vet was quite upset that I want to rescue a dog and can't. My best dogs are mixed breeds. Max my new lab even opens his own Christmas presents. Only his presents and no one else's. He's smart but plays dumb when he wants too.

 

[dougb1946]

Your choice in breeders is probably more important than the AKC paperwork.

AKC is a registry. Owners submit information on litters. Standards are set by breed clubs, not the AKC. The AKC doesn't spend a lot of money verifying data. That is up to the dog buyer. If you deal with a reputable breeder, you will be able to see the pup and probably the pups parents. The pups ancestry, probably with health histories, testing results, and performance awards will probably be available and bragged about a bit.

If you are looking for a performance dog(hunting, herding,service), be aware that in the US, breed clubs have primarily been show dog clubs. In some cases, the field bred are almost a breed separate from the show bred dogs.

The breeder is selling predictability. You will have a better chance of getting the size, shape, color, intelligence, and drive level you are looking for, with a guarantee. A rescue may give you all you need from a dog, but if you have specific requirements and intend to invest real money in training, a respected breeder may be your best choice.

 

[doublesharp]

Mutts 'R Us - There are plenty of shelter dogs but if I were a breeder I'd find the best mongrels (disposition, smarts, desire to please, health, etc.) and breed the best mutts on the planet. There are entirely too many bad inherited traits in too many purebred dogs.

A little golden, a little collie, a little shepherd..... Hey! That might replicate my most loved dog!

That's what my dogs are....designer mutts. A toy poodle bred with a peckingese then the peek a poo bred with a maltese to get an ocherese. Local breeder combined the breeds and raises them on a farm about 50 miles from us. it is a labor of love and the dogs are a sturdy, healthy, happy breed.

 

[Fishslayer]

Reputable breeders put out some serious cash having their dogs & puppies checked for any number of conditions. There is still no 100% guarantee. Most will take back any dog, any time. They will usually make you sign a contract to such.

Our departed Fauna has an impressive pedigree but turned out to be unsuitable for cop work. When she was gifted to us it was with the condition that she be spayed. The breeder probably lost a couple of $K on her.

Our Cattle Dog was a gift from a backyard breeder who sells dogs to the local ranchers. He recently went blind from PRCD (VERY common in Cattle Dogs) at 7 years old. He's my little guy & no way would I give him up, but if I wanted to I'm pretty sure I'd be SOL.