Pure Bred Dog Rant

[wbraswell]

Breeds these days have been genetically altered through breeding to produce dogs that, I would think, usually look the part of the breed, or at least the way someone wants them to look. This does not take into consideration the effect this has on health and temperament. So I am not into pure breeds. Have you met people who think they are pure bred? Like royals or aristocracy? I like mutts, like me.

 

[Arik]

Rescue here too. Some kinda mutt rat terrier. Awesome dog, great personality, happy, healthy. Couldn't as for more

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[joonbis]

Funny this came up. I am looking for another pug as I write. Ours passed on at 13 yrs. We loved that dog. I think I cried more than my wife. I swore I would never have another dog to get attached to but I lied. She cost us a fortune with health issues, but was very funny and sweet. Anyone know of a good place in Texas.

 

[shouldazagged]

I'm going to order a T-shirt I've seen that says "Rescued is my favorite breed." I've owned a few purebreds, but generally prefer the mutt temperament.

I agree that changes in breed standards and faddish preference have loused up some breeds. The example that stands our for me is the weirdly sloping back of today's German shepherd.

 

[rojodiablo]

It's not always possible nor feasible, but a really good way to get a good batch of dogs is if you have friends with like dogs, from different breeders. You wind up with a dog that is usually pretty dependable so far as hips and health. It can break a genetic funneling that your area might wind up with after generations of only a couple of breeders in a given area.
I was lucky enough to have this work out with my chocolate lab, Stains.
His dad was a yellow and a great hunting dog, and not too big. His mom was another buddy's hunting dog; a so-so hunter, but a really nice dog. They wanted to get them hooked up and I got the runt bitch of the litter for setting up the deal...... Yeah, he's 92lb and stands far taller than his parents and outweighs them by a solid 20-25lb. He's been pretty healthy, extremely tough and durable, and a super companion. I wish to breed him with any lab before he is gone. Stains is now 8-1/2 yrs. And still hunts the hills with me- quite a testament to his hips for a 90+lb Labrador. He never was quite calm enough to be a duck dog. Sitting still is not his game. He just likes quail and pheasant hunting a lot more.

If anyone has a very nice lady lab who needs a boyfriend, I would love to get the dogs together!!! Let me know. Thanks, Paul.

 

[Bkreutz]

Bkreutz

Is that a Wire haired Terrier? I have on that was rescued from a bad situation. Girl friend saved him and I promised her I would look after him if something happened to her. Something did.

I agree with the AKC wrecking a lot of breeds. Irish setters comes to mind. What was once a great hunting breed is now mostly a bunch of beautiful morons.

I believe that a dogs heart is a lot more important than his breed. Give the vast majority of them some time and attention and they will love you till their last breath.

Not a Wirehaired, it's an Old English Sheepdog. I have had mutts in the past (and loved all of them), what sells me on purebred rescues is the consistency. This is my 3rd OES rescue and while they are all a little bit different, they have breed traits that I like. Very loyal, once they learn their territory (property lines in my case) they never leave it for any reason. They have some hip dysplasia problems but almost all large breed do. They have short lives compared to little dogs (mine have all passed around 14) With a purebreed (rescue or not) you know before you buy what the temperament and characteristics are going to be. But in the end, any dog is good, I love them all. (when I grew up, my family bred Great Danes so having a large dog is pretty normal for me) I have a friend in England who has an Irish Setter, he named him "Plank" to match his intelligence. (great dog BTW, just kind of an airhead)

 

[Bill Bates]

I think of dogs like any other tool. Get the right tool for the job.

If you're looking for a great pet and breed isn't part of the question do a little home work, go to your local shelter and choose very wisely. Be very aware that dogs in the shelter are there for a reason. It might be a great dog and it might also be a complete nightmare.

If your looking for a pure breed for show then do lots of homework, pick your breeder very carefully.

I'm a grouse hunter. My needs are pretty specific when it comes to a bird dog. it needs to point, have stamina to hunt day after day, it needs to be biddable, it needs to work at reasonable range, natural retrieving is nice, it must have a coat that will protect it in the brush and thorns, it must be okay in the house, etc. So I do lots of homework, study breeders, get referrals and then hope I pick well when getting a pup.

Strange I took grief for not getting a shelter dogs the last two times I got pups. People look at me in like I'm from Mars when I tell them you don't often find great bird dogs at the shelter. No one takes a great bird dog the shelter. Worse a lot of shelters won't adopt out if you tell them you're going to use a dog for hunting cause were animal killers.

 

[Pete99004]

The one thing I am always looking up and reading more about than revolvers is pure bred dogs, Rottweilers to be specific. One thing I learned from the start of this beloved hobby of mine is to stay away from "puppy mills" and to always purchase from a reputable breeder with a good health guarantee. In PA., there is a group of people who mainly reside in the SE part of the state that have a lot of dogs for sale in the $300 - $500 range but these people run what is truly deemed puppy mills. So, when an individual interested in the purchase of a pup visits the website of one of the many so called "top breeders", the prices jump dramatically to the $2.5K on into the $5K range whose parents have a hundred titles after their names. All people like me want to do is purchase a dog with show qualities (meaning as close to the breed standard as possible) but don't have that kind of cash to put out for a dog which may or may not turn out as desired. It seems to me that these breeders are out of control and buying a well bred dog has become a rich man's hobby. Its a crazy world we live in!

O.K., my rant is over now!

I don't understand why you are blaming us breeders...you have admitted that you don't want to buy from a mill and that you are aware that the breeders who are at the top don't have the health issues you are trying to avoid. But you don't wish to pay for a quality bred dog. So all of the top breeders should just absorb the extra costs to do all the research and testing prior to breeding that is required to get a litter of high quality?

That's like saying you would like to buy a Lamborghini, but you don't want to pay more than you would for a Kia. There is a bit more R&D that goes into a hand built high performance machine then goes into a production line low end model.

High quality, sound bred lines don't come cheap. Many years of DNA research, testing for illness, identifying faults, selective breding to remove the faults from your line and culling of puppies happens before you have a good line that everyone wants to purchase. Then when you have a litter, and you have 15 buyers who seek your puppies, but the litter is only 4 dogs you should just give them out at the same price the puppy mills sell at? Sorry, that just isn't going to happen.

Think what you want about the AKC ruining breeds, but know what you are talking about before you make your statements. AKC is in it for a number of reasons, including the money, but the number one reason is to look out for the breed. Health is the primary issue there, and much of the funding for that research comes from the AKC and the National Club for each breed. Many health research projects are in place to eliminate issues that are breed specific and canine general.

Rescue is your answer. Many high quality dogs go to rescue for any number of reasons. Maybe a military person is getting shipped out and can't keep his/her dog, divorce in the family forces them to place their dog, death of the dogs owner, etc. I can tell you that the high quality dogs aren't at the pound very often and when they show up there, they go very fast. Rescue will pre-screen you and help you find the right dog for your stated purpose. Call your local rescue for the breed you like, they will help you out and may even be aware of a breeder who has a older show dog that needs to be placed. I know how you feel, it is expensive, but please don't blame the breeders who are trying to improve the breed and watch over it so the mills don't destroy the quality of the dogs that we have. Have a bit of patience - you will find the right dog, just don't rush into anything and allow others the time to help you.

Pete

 

[Pete99004]

It's not always possible nor feasible, but a really good way to get a good batch of dogs is if you have friends with like dogs, from different breeders. You wind up with a dog that is usually pretty dependable so far as hips and health. It can break a genetic funneling that your area might wind up with after generations of only a couple of breeders in a given area.
I was lucky enough to have this work out with my chocolate lab, Stains.
His dad was a yellow and a great hunting dog, and not too big. His mom was another buddy's hunting dog; a so-so hunter, but a really nice dog. They wanted to get them hooked up and I got the runt bitch of the litter for setting up the deal...... Yeah, he's 92lb and stands far taller than his parents and outweighs them by a solid 20-25lb. He's been pretty healthy, extremely tough and durable, and a super companion. I wish to breed him with any lab before he is gone. Stains is now 8-1/2 yrs. And still hunts the hills with me- quite a testament to his hips for a 90+lb Labrador. He never was quite calm enough to be a duck dog. Sitting still is not his game. He just likes quail and pheasant hunting a lot more.

If anyone has a very nice lady lab who needs a boyfriend, I would love to get the dogs together!!! Let me know. Thanks, Paul.

Here is an example of what I'm trying to say - no research on the sire or dam's lineage - you don't know what either one has in it's background for health issues, your boy has been healthy, but you don't what genetic issues he (or she) carries and will pass on, but they both look like labs to you (even though one is really tall and over weight, has none of the laidback lab qualities the standard calls for) no OFA xrays on hips to determine if there is any hip displasia, no PRA testing for genetic Renal failure, no history known of seizure in his or her line, but hell, lets breed em!! We can sell em cheap and make a fortune! What, you say your pup is sick - hell, I don't know what it is, call a Vet - your problem buddy, he's your dog now. I don't offer any guarantee at these prices. Must be something you fed him, cause I own the dad, and he is healthy.

Best to you in your quest.

Pete

 

[Mydogmax]

Just by chance, one of the featured articles on Yahoo talked about the ten most expensive breeds of dogs. The Rottweiler was number nine in the ten most expensive breeds.
Here's the section on them.
9. Rottweiler
Cost: $2,000 - $8,000
A descendant of ancient Roman cattle dogs, Rottweilers are used today as police, military and companion dogs. Powerful with a large build and a 'blocky' head, the Rottweiler makes an excellent guard dog and loyal family pet. It can be overly aggressive to strangers and other animals, though, and needs proper socialization and training from a young age.

That's a lot of money. Have you ever considered a gerbil
Just kidding. Get (or pay for) whatever you want. Life's too short not to.

 

[Doug M.]

I am aware of the puppy millers in the Lancaster area. A pox. As for well bred purebreeds, they serve a niche purpose. As described by our hunter who buys that way - you gotta consider the purpose. My dogs are couch hounds, so I don't need that. A working rott for police service, I would consider $20K as a cheap one, and not be too bothered at closer to $40K, but the stakes are way different.

I said this somewhere else and will edit to address tense and the like:

There is a big advantage to purebreed dogs, if one pays attention to the purpose of the breed (and some don't): predictability. If one wants a dog of a certain size (range), temperament (range) and coat type, let's say, an informed consumer can predict or learn from research and consulting with a breeder what dogs are most likely to fit their life. We have had 3 mixed breeds, and all were/are great dogs, but they could have been completely different. Our first was a RottXSpringer, and she did have both modest physical (hip) issues related the cross or her ancestors' hips, and of course the sometimes iffy Springer temperament problems. The 2nd was a RottXPit, and a great dog in every way once she got over her separation anxiety, even after being neglected before she ran away to the person who brought her to us, but I know some very sharp rott people who have kept data on the crosses they have rescued and said every other one but Sasha was cuckoo in a very bad way. Bozo, of course, is an unholy pain and a serious responsibility. Rescue thought (understandably) he was a RottXDane, but he at best has a good bit of Fila in him, and displays a lot of Fila temperament. He loves us, and is easy going and submissive with us and our Terv, but his hatred for strangers and its violent display has to be seen to be believed. I have little doubt he would be dead by now as a result of the owner not having a clue if he was not with us – he did get returned to rescue at least twice as I recall because adopters did not understand his response to strangers. See the avatar picture? That muzzle is not for show.

Our Terv is purebred and given to us when the man who had her learned the hard way how high strung she is. She's great for us, but we're odd ducks. He had lost a prior dog to an accident while being boarded, and I think did not do enough research to understand what a dog like her could be like.
... * ...
All of our dogs have been rescue, whether formal or informal (re-home). We prefer dogs to people, so we adjust more easily than some other folks might to the oddities and demands of a dog. Our rotties have been great dogs, generally both social and protective, and they are likely my favorite breed. When I was still running seriously, I considered a Rhodesian Ridgeback as a great choice for a companion, and they are a great breed, too.

I was on a very active Rott list for years, but it is shut down now. I still have some rescue contacts if you would like me to reach out - send me a PM and I can help. Breed rescues often have a better idea of the right dog for a person, have assessed them, and know what they are working with. Sometimes, all-breed rescues and local pounds simply don't have the resources and background to see subtle points (hence our experience with Bozo - the rescue rep had no idea what a Fila is and Bozo never displayed temperament at his home there). I do consider buying a purebred, and in theory my next generation of pets will be a female Boerboel, a male RR, and a cat, all raised more or less together. More likely - a rescue RR or rott and a cat.

 

[labworm]

Pete99004

We have all seen your gang, and I know they are well cared for and beautiful animals. Pure bred or mutt, that's all the counts.

One day out for a walk, I ran into a lady with an English Bulldog and we talked for awhile.

Asked what his name was and she said "Romeo", I looked at his face which probably produced the largest smile on mine in my entire life.

 

[mbliss57]

My wife bought an AKC Shih Tzu from a breeder..I think a puppy mill. He is a great dog. But his pure bred show traits are non existent. He looks like a Shih Tzu but acts half Jack Russel or something. Very athletic, looks to chase deer and is pretty unique. He has developed an extra rib that sticks out his side. So even though he has papers he is not the typical pure bred Shih Tzu.
We liked having the dog (Cooper) so much we bought another in 2009. This time I researched for a reputable breeder. This dog is the quintessential Shih Tzu. I am sure we could have shown him in shows if we wanted. But we just wanted the traits of the breed and didn't care about showing. He walks / carries himself like a king. And he is the lapdog of the century. The other one will sit with you only on his terms. We paid $500 for the 1st and $600 for the second. he next time we will go through a rescue. Being able to see the temperament of the adult is very helpful.

 

[SW_shooter]

Before I say it I will qualify it with "I realize not all breeders are like this" but....
My ex-wife and I went to a breeder to pick out a AKC Golden Retriever pup, not because we were going to show her but because we believed we would get a pure bred Golden. We even got the AKC papers showing lineage and all of that stuff.

Well, we got one alright, an inbred dog. Now she was an awesome dog for the eight short years we had her in our lives. But she suffered greatly due to what our vet told us was inbreeding. First she had mange, not an inbreeding issue but poor health of the mother issue. Pup got it at birth according to the vet. Next she developed OCD in her front shoulder, then she had it in both back legs. All of this required surgeries, lots of them and lots of $$. We loved her and so we spent the money to fix her up each time. Then she developed liver cancer and after almost a year to the day we had her put to sleep to end her misery.

During the years we had her (Sedona) our vet kept telling us these issues should have been eliminated by the breeder by the selective breeding described earlier by another poster (Pete99004 I believe). I've always felt we got Sedona from a puppy mill and not a reputable breeder. But, I loved that dog and still get a lump in my throat whenever I think about her after letting her go 8 years ago.

I will say this, Sedona was the smartest dog I've ever met. She understood what we said as well as what we thought. Sometimes I swear that dog could read my mind and then do whatever it was I was thinking. The stories I could tell are funny and heart warming.

Sorry, got off topic. PA reb, do what you feel you can whether its a breeder, puppy mill, rescue or other but love the dog and you will get love back many fold greater. They all give love bigger than we give them.

 

[Onomea]

This is an interesting thread with valid, reasoned perspectives from many angles. I think the advice to consider carefully what you want the dog for, and then doing your research, is very good.

Thinking about it, that is usually the case, isn't it, when acquiring something that is important to you.

 

[therevjay]

I've had lots of dogs over the years. Only two have been "purebreds". Both of them were given to me free, and cost a small fortune in vet bills. I always thought the old story about purebreds getting sick a lot was just that, a old story, it's not. (or maybe I was just unlucky)

Both were good dogs (as pets) However my English sheepdog would have to have been protected by the sheep. And my Yellow Lab hunting dog had pollen allergies and had to mostly stay indoors except in the dead of winter. Besides being terrified of rabbits. She never saw any ducks, but was once chased by a seagull.

Most all dogs are good dogs. But if I go looking for another dog after our present one is gone (if I outlive her) I think I'll stick with a mutt.

 

[BillK01]

When we were looking for a yellow Lab years ago we went to some field trials and got to know the various breeders that way. Got to meet the parents etc and ended up with a great dog for decent price of $500 - but that was about 15 years ago and our girl is sadly gone now. My oldest has allergic asthma and there are no more dogs in our future. It's too bad since there's many a day I really miss having a good dog and I really miss our girl - she was a great dog. Good luck to you op - dogs really are great for your soul.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Hope you find the dog that best suites you.

It's been my experience that the initial cost of a dog, whether it be $25, $250 or $2,500, pales in comparison to the time, money and dedication required to properly care for them through their lifetime. The decision to take on the responsibility of an animal should be carefully considered.

 

[Faulkner]

On the farm we like farm dogs, generally herders, and I prefer border collies. They have to be able to co-habitate with other animals around. We have a registered bordie collie now (my youngest son's) that does a great job and is a super family pet.

But the best farm dog I've ever had was a mixed breed rescue we got as a pup. We were never sure what breeds she came from but if I could replicate it I certainly would.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I think of dogs like any other tool. Get the right tool for the job.

If you're looking for a great pet and breed isn't part of the question do a little home work, go to your local shelter and choose very wisely. Be very aware that dogs in the shelter are there for a reason. It might be a great dog and it might also be a complete nightmare.

If your looking for a pure breed for show then do lots of homework, pick your breeder very carefully.

I'm a grouse hunter. My needs are pretty specific when it comes to a bird dog. it needs to point, have stamina to hunt day after day, it needs to be biddable, it needs to work at reasonable range, natural retrieving is nice, it must have a coat that will protect it in the brush and thorns, it must be okay in the house, etc. So I do lots of homework, study breeders, get referrals and then hope I pick well when getting a pup.

Strange I took grief for not getting a shelter dogs the last two times I got pups. People look at me in like I'm from Mars when I tell them you don't often find great bird dogs at the shelter. No one takes a great bird dog the shelter. Worse a lot of shelters won't adopt out if you tell them you're going to use a dog for hunting cause were animal killers.

Nice looking Setters. I hunt grouse with a Griffon. If you want a dog that needs to work (bird dog) one is better off just paying for a dog from a registered breeder. For me it was a NAVHDA registered breeder. I spent a year looking for a puppy and talking to breeders. I tried the cheap route, not worth the time or money IMO. Jim