Pure Bred Dog Rant

PA Reb

PA Reb

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The one thing I am always looking up and reading more about than revolvers is pure bred dogs, Rottweilers to be specific. One thing I learned from the start of this beloved hobby of mine is to stay away from "puppy mills" and to always purchase from a reputable breeder with a good health guarantee. In PA., there is a group of people who mainly reside in the SE part of the state that have a lot of dogs for sale in the $300 - $500 range but these people run what is truly deemed puppy mills. So, when an individual interested in the purchase of a pup visits the website of one of the many so called "top breeders", the prices jump dramatically to the $2.5K on into the $5K range whose parents have a hundred titles after their names. All people like me want to do is purchase a dog with show qualities (meaning as close to the breed standard as possible) but don't have that kind of cash to put out for a dog which may or may not turn out as desired. It seems to me that these breeders are out of control and buying a well bred dog has become a rich man's hobby. Its a crazy world we live in!

O.K., my rant is over now!
 
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PA Reb said:
The one thing I am always looking up and reading more about than revolvers is pure bred dogs, Rottweilers to be specific. One thing I learned from the start of this beloved hobby of mine is to stay away from "puppy mills" and to always purchase from a reputable breeder with a good health guarantee. In PA., there is a group of people who mainly reside in the SE part of the state that have a lot of dogs for sale in the $300 - $500 range but these people run what is truly deemed puppy mills. So, when an individual interested in the purchase of a pup visits the website of one of the many so called "top breeders", the prices jump dramatically to the $2.5K on into the $5K range whose parents have a hundred titles after their names. All people like me want to do is purchase a dog with show qualities (meaning as close to the breed standard as possible) but don't have that kind of cash to put out for a dog which may or may not turn out as desired. It seems to me that these breeders are out of control and buying a well bred dog has become a rich man's hobby. Its a crazy world we live in!

O.K., my rant is over now!
Click to expand...

My solution is to contact the local breed club of a dog you're interested in. They normally have a rescue section. These are dogs that are either turned in to animal shelters or to the breed clubs themselves. I'm currently enjoying my 3rd rescue of an Old English Sheepdog (shaggy dog) the main reason this breed gets given up is that people buy the cuddly puppies but soon realize that these cute little puppies turn into huge dogs that has hair that never stops growing and takes too much of their time to properly care for them. The breed rescue people are more cautious on who they adopt out the dogs to, knowing the particular requirements of that breed. Rescue dogs seem to me to be more appreciative of the care (but I'm biased;))
 

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I agree, the prices do seem pretty high, but I don't really know how much it costs for breeding, vet bills and feeding. Also can't really say what the blood line is worth. Are you planning to show this dog? Then you're gonna pay some big bucks. If not, then just take your chances. I've had many dogs. Some pure breeds, some not. Loved them all. Quirks or not. Another thought might be a rescue dog from a shelter. My neighbor has one and she's very very smart. Just an opinion.
 
Once upon a time I went over to a guy's house. The front door was partially open and I could hear a low growl behind the door. When John answered the door I could see his really strange looking dog. 'What kind of dog is that?' 'Its a registered German Shepherd.' OK

Later he told me he thought he had purchased a registered German Shepherd puppy from a breeder (puppy factory) in Illinois. Later on he got a letter from the AKC canceling his registration. This dog was big, tall, long bodied, almost hairless especially on his tail. Had a really big head. His daddy was most likely a Great Dane.
 
We got a Great Dane from a guy who "showed" them.

We paid a few hundred dollars, he delivered it over 150 miles.

The dog was trained - well!! :D

BUT, he was a leaner, he loved to lean against your leg, too affectionate!

That is a B A D show trait, :eek:

Check with the guys who show, they are perfectionists,,,,,,,

Heck, I prefer an affectionate dog!! :)

He walked like a "king" on a leash.
 
Another resource is to contact people who show dogs. Tell them you are in the market for a pup but doesn't necessarily need to be show quality. Some will have litters which they will keep one or two and sell the rest but do not wat the hassle of advertising.


My rant: I own a Llewellin Setter which AKC recognize as a English Setter. Llewellins were recognized as early as 1902 by Field Dog Stud Book (earliest dog registery) before AKC existed.

Take a look at the wikipedia article: English Setter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and notice the differences between bench/show setters and field setters. Show setters are nearly double the size of field setters; what nearly a hundered years of breeding for show has done for the breed. Now, we have to differentiate between show and field type. My rant over.
 
+1 ON FIELD VS SHOW DOGS

IMO the AKC is ruining dogs. #1 they don't recognize many dogs. My French Brittany's for instance, HELLO Brittany is in France & is where the breed began! To avoid a puppy mill a lot of research, a trip to visit the breeder and maybe more $ is in order. I am all for rescues for most people. You could have an AKC champion hunting dog breed that never hunted a day in it's life. Guys like Sigbot (Bodo) Winterhelt spent their lives, & founded NAVDA (north American versatile hunting dog assoc) breeding new lines of versatile hunting dogs all to be able to live up to breed standards & field ability vs good looks dog to dog. A less popular breed may have a better chance of not being from a "mill", but you still have to do your homework & check out the breeder/facility/background. I'm a believer in no such things as bad kids or dogs, just bad parents & owners. A mutt could have everything needed to make a great companion dog or hunter, if the owner/trainer does their part.
 
Bkreutz

Is that a Wire haired Terrier? I have on that was rescued from a bad situation. Girl friend saved him and I promised her I would look after him if something happened to her. Something did.

I agree with the AKC wrecking a lot of breeds. Irish setters comes to mind. What was once a great hunting breed is now mostly a bunch of beautiful morons.

I believe that a dogs heart is a lot more important than his breed. Give the vast majority of them some time and attention and they will love you till their last breath.
 
I had an English Bulldog for 11 years, loved him but I'd never have another. Any pure bred for that matter. While he was alive and for some years after, I followed the circuit. Dog breeders and those who show are cut from a different bolt of cloth. They're downright odd IMHO. I'll take a mutt any day. They're loyal, not near as temperamental, and will eat pretty much whatever you put in front of them without yakking all over the house.
 
i have always had akc dogs. up until our recent cocker spaniel. every beagle, german shorthaired pointer, and the previous cocker spaniel have been from pure blood lines. that is what akc registered is. pure blood line for the breed. it's when that blood line has show quality with verifiable history that the prices go up. the gsp and cocker we had we not going to be bred so i never actually registered them myself with the akc, but i had the paperwork to if i needed/wanted to.

our current cocker is a beautifully marked male and quite a bit smarter than the akc cocker we had. he is registerable with the ckc or kcc or some other dog registry that i had never heard of and from what i read, very disreputable. the kids wanted another one after 2 years, he was very pretty, he seemed well adjusted, friendly, and smart when i went to look at him so i brought him home. i am glad i did. i paid $250 for him(which happens to be the max that i will pay for a dog). this was the same that i paid for the akc cocker 9 years ago and the akc gsp 15 years ago.

i guess what i am trying to say is unless you want to show or breed, don't get caught up too much on the akc part. spend some time with the dog of your choice, get to know his/her personality and if you click with him/her, then it's the right dog for you.
 
I would suggest going to some AKC dog shows in your area and getting to know some of the owners of the breed in which your are interested. Most are very friendly and love to talk about their dogs. You will learn a lot about the different kennels and breeders in your area.

Once you find someone with an upcoming litter, let them know that you are interested in either a "show" quality or "pet" quality pup. Often they will determine that a beautiful and healthy puppy is missing some minor conformation characteristic and let it go to a good home for a very reasonable "pet" price.

Letting them know that you'll provide a good and loving home is very important to most of the show breeders... and will help to get you a great dog at a reasonable price.

Edited to add: Most good breeders are very careful to maintain good health and temperament in their line as well as "looks" and conformation. Over breeding with no controls can lead to hidden health or behavioral problems that are amplified through the generations.
 
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What are you going for? Just the look? Any Rott will look the part. No one will know if it's there is a % other unless it's 50/50, in which case you will know. The whole "pure bred" thing is BS.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
We used to breed Chihuahuas, many years ago. The 'breed'
now is half the size they were we we bred them. Tiny, short
noses, round heads, skinny and usually shaking. I don't like
them, they aren't really dogs to me.

Unless you are going to breed and show a dog, I suggest you
rescue a dog. We have, and are thoroughly pleased with all
our friends we have saved. They seem to realize they have
been saved and seem to be smarter than breeds. I know my
new pup is a Terrier, and that's about it, but he loves me and
my family. The only thing is, he has a 'likker' problem.
 

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If you have ever been to Germany or parts thereabout--all you will see are German Shepards with really big head.
America has bred the big heads out of them.
I like small dogs aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaLOT.
Blessings
 
Our last Doberman from a reputable breeder cost $2500.00 and that was five years ago. Last year we adopted a sweet dobie from Houston Doberman Rescue for $250.00 The rescue dog is every bit as smart, lovable, healthy and affectionate as our high priced dog. She just didn't come with a long pedigree. Our older dobie loves having a little sister to run and play with.
 
Texas40 said:
All our dogs come from the shelter. Never paid more than a few dollars for any of them. All three current dogs are rescue pups.

You cant change the world but you can change one dogs world.......
Click to expand...

Bears being repeated. I was fortunate to have three St. Bernards in my younger years. They were wonderful dogs and I would give up every S&W I own to have them back. That said, the next dog I get will be from a rescue organization.
 
Even well bred pure bred dogs can come down with all sorts of genetic problems later in life. I have a AKC Yorkie, well actuallt Mrs Comrad has one and as good as he is he's developing all the well known breed problems late in life. Just like the last one we had. Did I mention, this one will be the last. Give me a good mutt anytime, just like me.
 
We have had about a 1/2 dozen dogs, at least. Our first, Maggie was a pure-bred GSP from a friend of a friend (thru Quail Unlimited and the Turkey Federation). We've had 3 others, all from the pound. All pure-bred. Pointers are very active and many people can't handle it. We've also had 3 terriers from the pound ( well, one was a foundling-somebody left him in our yard). All but the Maltese worked out well. She is now happy in another home being a single dog.

A friend in SoCal has had at least a 1/2 dozen pointers from GSP rescue.

We won't buy another puppy! Give a rescue a chance!
 
Breeds these days have been genetically altered through breeding to produce dogs that, I would think, usually look the part of the breed, or at least the way someone wants them to look. This does not take into consideration the effect this has on health and temperament. So I am not into pure breeds. Have you met people who think they are pure bred? Like royals or aristocracy? I like mutts, like me.
 
Funny this came up. I am looking for another pug as I write. Ours passed on at 13 yrs. We loved that dog. I think I cried more than my wife. I swore I would never have another dog to get attached to but I lied. She cost us a fortune with health issues, but was very funny and sweet. Anyone know of a good place in Texas.
 
I'm going to order a T-shirt I've seen that says "Rescued is my favorite breed." I've owned a few purebreds, but generally prefer the mutt temperament.

I agree that changes in breed standards and faddish preference have loused up some breeds. The example that stands our for me is the weirdly sloping back of today's German shepherd.
 
It's not always possible nor feasible, but a really good way to get a good batch of dogs is if you have friends with like dogs, from different breeders. You wind up with a dog that is usually pretty dependable so far as hips and health. It can break a genetic funneling that your area might wind up with after generations of only a couple of breeders in a given area.
I was lucky enough to have this work out with my chocolate lab, Stains.
His dad was a yellow and a great hunting dog, and not too big. His mom was another buddy's hunting dog; a so-so hunter, but a really nice dog. They wanted to get them hooked up and I got the runt bitch of the litter for setting up the deal......:rolleyes: Yeah, he's 92lb and stands far taller than his parents and outweighs them by a solid 20-25lb. He's been pretty healthy, extremely tough and durable, and a super companion. I wish to breed him with any lab before he is gone. Stains is now 8-1/2 yrs. And still hunts the hills with me- quite a testament to his hips for a 90+lb Labrador. He never was quite calm enough to be a duck dog. Sitting still is not his game. He just likes quail and pheasant hunting a lot more.

If anyone has a very nice lady lab who needs a boyfriend, I would love to get the dogs together!!! Let me know. Thanks, Paul.
 
steelslaver said:
Bkreutz

Is that a Wire haired Terrier? I have on that was rescued from a bad situation. Girl friend saved him and I promised her I would look after him if something happened to her. Something did.

I agree with the AKC wrecking a lot of breeds. Irish setters comes to mind. What was once a great hunting breed is now mostly a bunch of beautiful morons.

I believe that a dogs heart is a lot more important than his breed. Give the vast majority of them some time and attention and they will love you till their last breath.
Click to expand...

Not a Wirehaired, it's an Old English Sheepdog. I have had mutts in the past (and loved all of them), what sells me on purebred rescues is the consistency. This is my 3rd OES rescue and while they are all a little bit different, they have breed traits that I like. Very loyal, once they learn their territory (property lines in my case) they never leave it for any reason. They have some hip dysplasia problems but almost all large breed do. They have short lives compared to little dogs (mine have all passed around 14) With a purebreed (rescue or not) you know before you buy what the temperament and characteristics are going to be. But in the end, any dog is good, I love them all. (when I grew up, my family bred Great Danes so having a large dog is pretty normal for me:D) I have a friend in England who has an Irish Setter, he named him "Plank" to match his intelligence. (great dog BTW, just kind of an airhead)
 
I think of dogs like any other tool. Get the right tool for the job.

If you're looking for a great pet and breed isn't part of the question do a little home work, go to your local shelter and choose very wisely. Be very aware that dogs in the shelter are there for a reason. It might be a great dog and it might also be a complete nightmare.

If your looking for a pure breed for show then do lots of homework, pick your breeder very carefully.

I'm a grouse hunter. My needs are pretty specific when it comes to a bird dog. it needs to point, have stamina to hunt day after day, it needs to be biddable, it needs to work at reasonable range, natural retrieving is nice, it must have a coat that will protect it in the brush and thorns, it must be okay in the house, etc. So I do lots of homework, study breeders, get referrals and then hope I pick well when getting a pup.

Strange I took grief for not getting a shelter dogs the last two times I got pups. People look at me in like I'm from Mars when I tell them you don't often find great bird dogs at the shelter. No one takes a great bird dog the shelter. Worse a lot of shelters won't adopt out if you tell them you're going to use a dog for hunting cause were animal killers.

153291848.OMIzZbU8.Timberhandoff11_08_13.jpg
 
PA Reb said:
The one thing I am always looking up and reading more about than revolvers is pure bred dogs, Rottweilers to be specific. One thing I learned from the start of this beloved hobby of mine is to stay away from "puppy mills" and to always purchase from a reputable breeder with a good health guarantee. In PA., there is a group of people who mainly reside in the SE part of the state that have a lot of dogs for sale in the $300 - $500 range but these people run what is truly deemed puppy mills. So, when an individual interested in the purchase of a pup visits the website of one of the many so called "top breeders", the prices jump dramatically to the $2.5K on into the $5K range whose parents have a hundred titles after their names. All people like me want to do is purchase a dog with show qualities (meaning as close to the breed standard as possible) but don't have that kind of cash to put out for a dog which may or may not turn out as desired. It seems to me that these breeders are out of control and buying a well bred dog has become a rich man's hobby. Its a crazy world we live in!

O.K., my rant is over now!
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you are blaming us breeders...you have admitted that you don't want to buy from a mill and that you are aware that the breeders who are at the top don't have the health issues you are trying to avoid. But you don't wish to pay for a quality bred dog. So all of the top breeders should just absorb the extra costs to do all the research and testing prior to breeding that is required to get a litter of high quality?

That's like saying you would like to buy a Lamborghini, but you don't want to pay more than you would for a Kia. There is a bit more R&D that goes into a hand built high performance machine then goes into a production line low end model.

High quality, sound bred lines don't come cheap. Many years of DNA research, testing for illness, identifying faults, selective breding to remove the faults from your line and culling of puppies happens before you have a good line that everyone wants to purchase. Then when you have a litter, and you have 15 buyers who seek your puppies, but the litter is only 4 dogs you should just give them out at the same price the puppy mills sell at? Sorry, that just isn't going to happen.

Think what you want about the AKC ruining breeds, but know what you are talking about before you make your statements. AKC is in it for a number of reasons, including the money, but the number one reason is to look out for the breed. Health is the primary issue there, and much of the funding for that research comes from the AKC and the National Club for each breed. Many health research projects are in place to eliminate issues that are breed specific and canine general.

Rescue is your answer. Many high quality dogs go to rescue for any number of reasons. Maybe a military person is getting shipped out and can't keep his/her dog, divorce in the family forces them to place their dog, death of the dogs owner, etc. I can tell you that the high quality dogs aren't at the pound very often and when they show up there, they go very fast. Rescue will pre-screen you and help you find the right dog for your stated purpose. Call your local rescue for the breed you like, they will help you out and may even be aware of a breeder who has a older show dog that needs to be placed. I know how you feel, it is expensive, but please don't blame the breeders who are trying to improve the breed and watch over it so the mills don't destroy the quality of the dogs that we have. Have a bit of patience - you will find the right dog, just don't rush into anything and allow others the time to help you.

Pete
 
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rojodiablo said:
It's not always possible nor feasible, but a really good way to get a good batch of dogs is if you have friends with like dogs, from different breeders. You wind up with a dog that is usually pretty dependable so far as hips and health. It can break a genetic funneling that your area might wind up with after generations of only a couple of breeders in a given area.
I was lucky enough to have this work out with my chocolate lab, Stains.
His dad was a yellow and a great hunting dog, and not too big. His mom was another buddy's hunting dog; a so-so hunter, but a really nice dog. They wanted to get them hooked up and I got the runt bitch of the litter for setting up the deal......:rolleyes: Yeah, he's 92lb and stands far taller than his parents and outweighs them by a solid 20-25lb. He's been pretty healthy, extremely tough and durable, and a super companion. I wish to breed him with any lab before he is gone. Stains is now 8-1/2 yrs. And still hunts the hills with me- quite a testament to his hips for a 90+lb Labrador. He never was quite calm enough to be a duck dog. Sitting still is not his game. He just likes quail and pheasant hunting a lot more.

If anyone has a very nice lady lab who needs a boyfriend, I would love to get the dogs together!!! Let me know. Thanks, Paul.
Click to expand...


Here is an example of what I'm trying to say - no research on the sire or dam's lineage - you don't know what either one has in it's background for health issues, your boy has been healthy, but you don't what genetic issues he (or she) carries and will pass on, but they both look like labs to you (even though one is really tall and over weight, has none of the laidback lab qualities the standard calls for) no OFA xrays on hips to determine if there is any hip displasia, no PRA testing for genetic Renal failure, no history known of seizure in his or her line, but hell, lets breed em!! We can sell em cheap and make a fortune! What, you say your pup is sick - hell, I don't know what it is, call a Vet - your problem buddy, he's your dog now. I don't offer any guarantee at these prices. Must be something you fed him, cause I own the dad, and he is healthy.;)

Best to you in your quest.

Pete
 
Just by chance, one of the featured articles on Yahoo talked about the ten most expensive breeds of dogs. The Rottweiler was number nine in the ten most expensive breeds.
Here's the section on them.
9. Rottweiler
Cost: $2,000 - $8,000
A descendant of ancient Roman cattle dogs, Rottweilers are used today as police, military and companion dogs. Powerful with a large build and a 'blocky' head, the Rottweiler makes an excellent guard dog and loyal family pet. It can be overly aggressive to strangers and other animals, though, and needs proper socialization and training from a young age.

That's a lot of money:eek:. Have you ever considered a gerbil:D
Just kidding. Get (or pay for) whatever you want. Life's too short not to.
 
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