Question from a Non Reloader

[Whit]

While I don't reload, I have a friend that Kees me in 38 wadcutters. The vast majority of the time I shoot 38 Spl in my 357 Mag revolvers. To avoid getting a powder build up in the cylinder, thus making it difficult to chamber the longer mag rounds, why not just load magnum brass to 38 load specifications? For casual range shooting…I'm not a bullseye shooter, is there any downside to the practice of loading down in the longer case? Thanks for your expert input.

 

[StrawHat]

You might need a bit more powder to make the velocity equal to what you get in the smaller case but it would not be a great amount.

I would shoot thousands of 38 S&W Special cartridges out of various revolvers chambered for the 357 Magnum cartridge. With proper cleaning, I never had the problem that is so often screamed about on various fora.

Kevin

 

[Pisgah]

Well, it's never a good idea to just willy-nilly put a load in to a different case, but it's no problem finding .38-level loads for the .357 case in loading manuals. Generally, such loads are very pleasant to shoot.

 

[tmd17]

... The vast majority of the time I shoot 38 Spl in my 357 Mag revolvers. To avoid getting a powder build up in the cylinder...

Are you getting build up? To your question though, yes it is very doable.

Like StawHat, I hear about this "problem" all the time but I have never experienced it and I shoot a lot of 38 in my .357's.

 

[venomballistics]

It should be an easy goal.
Really, all that is necessary is to keep the load below 1000 FPS
Wadcutters don't seem to like life in the fast lane.

 

[Alk8944]

While I don't reload, I have a friend that Kees me in 38 wadcutters. The vast majority of the time I shoot 38 Spl in my 357 Mag revolvers. To avoid getting a powder build up in the cylinder, thus making it difficult to chamber the longer mag rounds, why not just load magnum brass to 38 load specifications? For casual range shooting…I'm not a bullseye shooter, is there any downside to the practice of loading down in the longer case? Thanks for your expert input.

The .357 case has approximately 12% greater volume than .38 Special. So, for a roughly equivalent load in the larger case increase charge weight/volume by 12%. Just that simple.

 

[SMSgt]

I shot far more .38 wadcutters in my Ruger Blackhawk than .357s, and I never had the proverbial "carbon ring" issue. Clean the cylinders with a brass brush when you're finished shooting and neither will you. Neglect the cleaning and the problem is caused by you.

 

[TJm15.38]

I can't see using .357 Magnum cases for target loads. I shoot mostly .38 Special target rounds in a Model 65-5 and a Model 28-2. I just pay a little more attention to cylinder cleaning with a proper size brass brush and carbon buildup has never been a problem. I load .38's with a hardcast bullet and Winchester 231 powder and it's a fairly easy cleanup each time.

 

[rwsmith]

When I had spare brass.....

I would load .38 special in .357 cases because when I go to the range I usually shoot the .38s first, and I don't want to clean crud rings at the shooting range. So using .357 cases i avoid taking range time to clean guns. .38 bullets I shoot in .38 revolvers.

That 1/10 of an inch difference in length doesn't do anything to loading data because there is already a preponderance of volume in the .38 and the .357, but if it makes you feel better, add few tenths of a grain to compensate for it.

No I have to justify why I 'had' spare brass. I used to have a ton of .357 brass, but now I hardly have any. I'm thinking about ordering some but then maybe it'll pop up in my garage or something.

 

[venomballistics]

I shot far more .38 wadcutters in my Ruger Blackhawk than .357s, and I never had the proverbial "carbon ring" issue. Clean the cylinders with a brass brush when you're finished shooting and neither will you. Neglect the cleaning and the problem is caused by you.

This is true if the revolver is not pressed immediately back into service after a range session. My EDC gets loaded for carry and holstered before the brass from practice is done rolling on the floor.
This may or may not be the same for the OP

 

[imakmst]

As everyone else has said, just shoot what you've been shootin' and clean as needed. Think of it as quality time with your firearm.

 

[Hair Trigger]

While I don't reload, I have a friend that Kees me in 38 wadcutters. The vast majority of the time I shoot 38 Spl in my 357 Mag revolvers. To avoid getting a powder build up in the cylinder, thus making it difficult to chamber the longer mag rounds, why not just load magnum brass to 38 load specifications? For casual range shooting…I'm not a bullseye shooter, is there any downside to the practice of loading down in the longer case? Thanks for your expert input.

It would seem easier, but optimum powder choices are different between .38Spl and .357M, and one powder may not directly translate from one case to the other by a ratio of weight to case volume. I load for both and stick to published data, and use Hornady exclusively because it gives good results. That being said, a +P .38Spl. load tops out around 850 fps (158grain bullet), and a "low power" .357M load starts at around 950-1000 fps., (same weight bullet and using listed powders).

If you're having difficulty cleaning the carbon ring inside the chamber throat, get yourself a Lewis lead remover. There's a piece for the chamber throats and one for the forcing cone, and the throat tool is excellent for removing the carbon ring. They come caliber specific.

 

[Forrest r]

I've shot countless 1000's of the 38spl's in my 357mags since the 80's. It was a common practice back then simply because the 38spl cases were soooooo common. It was mothing to buy 1000 1x fired 38spl cases for $10.

I cast my own bullets, my 1st mold was a 6-cavity h&g #50 148gr button nosed wc mold. Back then I lubed those cast bullets with the old nra 50/50 lube. I either used bullseye or www452/trap 100 for powders.

Those reloads were absolutely filthy to shoot, tons of smoke and black suit on the firearms. There was no shortage of massive carbon rings to clean out of the cylinders after a +/- 400 round range session.

I wanted to learn how to shoot a revolver accurately and bought a s&w 586 and shot +/- 1000 reloads with those h&g #50's in the 38spl brass every week.

I quickly learned I didn't need to lube that wc in all 3 lube grooves. This actually made the reloads more accurate and cut down on the smoke/crud/carbon ring.

I also quickly learned to use an old/worn copper bore brush chucked in a drill with copper choir boy wrapped around it to clean the cylinders. A little hoppe's #9 and +/- 30 seconds per cylinder hole and they were clean. It took longer to clean the cylinder face and top strap.

I also started moving the bullet out further in the 38spl cases (longer oal). This aided in slowing the carbon ring buildup by increasing the short start pressure/better initial burn. Along with increasing accuracy. I still load my 38spl reloads with the bullet long/out further to this day. A h&g #50 wc loaded long (right). A Mihec 640 series fn hp loaded long (bottom crimp groove/has upper and lower crimp grooves) left.

Cylinders have leade's in them, it's the sloped area in front of the cut area for the case ends. Putting the bullet out further into the leade aids in the bullets alignment along with giving the bullet resistance/seals faster increasing the short start pressure of the reload. This aids in a hotter/higher pressure burn/more complete burn of the powder and lube.

Those reloads loaded long in the 38spl cases (pictured above) shot in a 686 357mag @ 50ft. The 686 was bench rested and scoped, 6-shot groups @ 50ft.

 

[loc n load]

38's in 357 magnum.

I have shot tens of thousands of 38 specials in my 357's. As pointed out in previous posts, clean the chambers.
Back in the day, once fired 38 spl brass was easy to come by and inexpensive, 357 Mag brass was not.
At one time I was shooting 500 rds of 38's a week through my
Model 65 and i never encountered a problem chambering 357's as long as I kept the cylinder cleaned.
Duplicating 38 loads in 357 brass can be done, but IMO it is not necessary.

 

[Forrest r]

The 686 used in the post above.

The picture above was taken after a extended range session +/- 500 rounds using powder coated bullets. You can see fouling on the cylinders. It's extremely thin and there isn't a carbon ring built up in the cylinders.

A close up of that 686 after a 200 round range session using 38spl cases/coated bullets. I don't bother to clean or wipe down that revolver with such a low round count that was shot thru it.

A +/- 600 round count shot in a nm 1911 chambered in 9mm using a 125gr cast/powder coated bullet and a 25,000psi load.

A close up of what the bbl looked like.

1 tight patch soaked in hoppe's #9 and a little elbo grease. Then 1 dry patch and that bbl is clean.

I've cast and shot bullets since the 70's using my brother's equipment and him as a mentor. I bought my own casting/reloading equipment in the 80's. And started swaging bullets in the 90's. I started pc'ing (powder coating) in 2014.

IMHO:
coated bullets have been a real game changer when it comes to carbon the ring build up, soot & general fouling of firearms compared to their traditionally lubed counterparts.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

This is true if the revolver is not pressed immediately back into service after a range session. My EDC gets loaded for carry and holstered before the brass from practice is done rolling on the floor.
This may or may not be the same for the OP

I would opine that the typical "range session" with most revolvers is considerably less than the 200 to 400(?) round ones described in some of the previous posts...?

Of course, if one can still LOAD your EDC's 357 Magnum cases into the revolver's cylinder after the range session ends you should still be "good to go" (defense-wise?) until you get around to cleaning it?

One would hope?

Cheers!

P.S. I personally have never had a problem with sticky cylinders in a revolver except with a 22 and some typically extra dirty older lead ammo. My revolver brass only hits the ground when I fumble on a reload...

 

[mikld]

I started reloading 38 Special in late 1969 and have tried every sane reload at least once. I have reloaded 357 brass with data straight from my manual's 38 Special section (being aware of lower Special loads and stuck bullets) and on rare occasions, the reverse; 357 data in Special brass (also aware of pressure signs). Never tried any extrapolation using "formula" but thought out the data/process and never ruined any brass or handguns. Of course I didn't try these loads "willy-nilly", but gave each load a lot of thought. As far as the dreaded "carbon ring", I too have never had a problem, even after a good session (150+ rounds) and I clean my guns after each range session.

Yes, you can use 357 brass for wadcutter loads BTDT many times and some manuals have data specific to 148/150 gr wadcutters in 357 Magnum...

 

[venomballistics]

I would opine that the typical "range session" with most revolvers is considerably less than the 200 to 400(?) round ones described in some of the previous posts...?

Of course, if one can still LOAD your EDC's 357 Magnum cases into the revolver's cylinder after the range session ends you should still be "good to go" (defense-wise?) until you get around to cleaning it?

One would hope?

Cheers!

P.S. I personally have never had a problem with sticky cylinders in a revolver except with a 22 and some typically extra dirty older lead ammo. My revolver brass only hits the ground when I fumble on a reload...

My range sessions used to be pretty heavy. Enough to have a fair grasp of this problem.
I used to have a load with some of those Hornady swaged lead bullets in 44 special. It was nice range load, but would very quickly create the ring of crud making magnum cases tight, and or impossible. I also had the same issue with cast lead, but it took a bit longer to reach a bothersome level.
I haven't tried it with any of the coated yet. I imagine that would solve most of the problem.

 

[rhodesengr]

I went through this a while back. I think I have a thread about it. I wanted to develop a load in 357 that would be about the same as the so-called FBI load which is something like 1000fps with a 158gr lead bullet. Using listed loads, I came up with 8gr of AA#5. 8gr is the bottom of that particular listed load range. It is far cry from full power 357 loads. So that should satisfy what you want.

EDIT: found my old thread
Speed for 38special with Hornady 125gr XTP bullets

You can skip down to post #42 where discussion about the FBI loads starts. I have made this load with the Rim Rock soft lead, gas-checked bullets but those are expensive and I mostly just use 158gr SWC with a medium hard lead. I started that thread trying to get a load with 38spl that would use 124gr XTP bullets in 38spl. By the end, I gave up on that idea and came around to the idea of just not shooting 38spl loads in my 686 Comp. So now I have a variety of 357 loads from the milder 8gr of AA#5 with 158gr lead (1000fps) up to 21.5gr of H110 with the 125gr XTP (1500fps measured with my 686)

 

[GypsmJim]

I bought a 357 revolver in 1971. Only used 38 spl because they were cheaper. Once in a blue moon I shot 357s out of it.

I cleaned the revolver maybe a couple times a year. Used Hoppes and a cloth. Never used a brass brush.

Never had a problem loading any rounds. I didn't know there was a problem until a few years ago, when I read it on the internet.