Question on "chalk" found in rifling grooves of Pre-27

[rom141]

Hey folks, hoping someone has an idea on this one. I recently acquired a 1954 Pre-27 that turned out to be in much better shape than I had imagined. Upon a field strip and thorough examination however I found evidence of a thick chalk like substance stuck in the rifling grooves. I extracted some of it via a toothpick and confirmed that it was white, chalky and very thick but removable. I have no idea what it is / was however. To the best I can tell this revolver has had very few rounds through it, and the substance was very easy to remove. Barrel and rifling are pristine after cleaning, but I am not aware of any cleaners or other compounds that would leave this type of residue (other than maybe car wax?). Any thoughts or ideas on what that might have been? Thanks!

 

[Muley Gil]

Lead turns white after a number of years.

 

[mike454]

oxidized lead?

 

[Krogen]

Probably lead oxide as Muley Gil and mike454 have said. Likely left over from some leading many years ago. Be advised that lead oxide is more dangerous to your health than metallic lead - in part because of it's mobility.

 

[joe44va]

Cleverley called lead oxide and white lead. They used to use it in paint.

 

[Truckman]

Among many factors, lead oxide was a cause of the decline of the Roman Empire...It was used to sweeten the Roman wine, and left permanent brain damage to frequent drinkers......Ben

 

[PeteC]

Among many factors, lead oxide was a cause of the decline of the Roman Empire...It was used to sweeten the Roman wine, and left permanent brain damage to frequent drinkers......Ben

The Romans took their wine drinking seriously!

The Disturbingly Long History of Lead Toxicity in Winemaking | Wine Enthusiast

On one hand, neurological damage, paralysis and insanity... on the other hand, properly balancing the tannins in your favorite beverage... it's a hard call!

To quote a popular youtube channel (completely out of context), "You be the judge",

 

[moosedog]

Lead oxide. You'll sometimes notice this same thing at the muzzle end of a 22 rifle that was stored for a long time without having the bore cleaned before storing.

 

[gwpercle]

If it's not lead oxide ... it could be some type of bore protectant ... car wax would be a suspect ... But it could be J-B Bore Cleaner that wasn't completely removed . It's a cleaning paste that will dry and leave white residue .
I'm sure there are other paste bore cleaners ... J-B was just the first that came to mind and would be logical to be in the bore !
Gary

 

[DGNY]

Years ago there was a window polish and cleaner known as Glass Wax. It was messy to use on windows, but my grandparents favored it.

It would leave a decided residue wherever it went - and seemingly in places it wasn't even applied!

 

[tominboise]

Grease is oil that is thickened with clay. It could be that the bore was greased and the oil has evaporated over time. It sounds more like oxidized lead from your description.

 

[rct269]

Does oxidized lead come out with a toothpick?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[PeteC]

Does oxidized lead come out with a toothpick?

Ralph Tremaine

Yes, but a better question would be how it got between your teeth in the first place!

 

[handejector]

It is lead oxide. Quite common in the 1000s of old guns I have fooled with.

 

[luvsmiths]

Is there any chance that this may be lead oxide? Anyone?

 

[gmborkovic]

rom 141, who cares what it is? Did it clean out and how did the gun shoot?

 

[rom141]

Thanks for everyone's replies! Based on what I experienced in removing it and its texture etc. I guess I am inclined to believe that it is indeed lead residue, but it must be very old (not unlike me). The chalkiness cannot be overstated. Almost a powder with no cohesion, but compressed into the grooves. It seems like lead trapped in the rifling would take a long time to decompose to this level, but I can see how it could happen. To answer one question from someone I saw: it removed quite handily with proper bore cleaning tools and the rifling is pristine (along with the rest of the gun). Not sure about how it shoots yet, I am tortured about actually firing it, it is so unused looking I am inclined to think that it was never fired except maybe for the factory shot(s). Thanks again all.

 

[DGNY]

Thanks for your helpful update and condition report on that beautiful S&W. Of course, as perpetual enablers, we encourage you to do what your heart tells you to do. Especially if that includes a little range time just to check everything out!

All best.

 

[gwpercle]

Ah ... To Fire or not to fire ... That , is the question .

Collectors just look at them .

Shooters , shoot them .

So the question you have to ask yourself is ...
... am I a Collector or am I a shooter ?

In my case I'm a shooter ... I'll let my children worry about the re-sale value ... as Try Landry would say ... Let's Choot Em' !
Gary

 

[PeteC]

....I am inclined to think that it was never fired except maybe for the factory shot(s). Thanks again all.

I believe that is unlikely if there was enough lead residue/leading in the barrel to form a layer of lead oxide. Most likely a former owner did a good job cleaning the gun but forgot to give the bore a good scrubbing before storing it.

Look for faint imprints of a cartridge on the recoil shield. Sometimes you have to look at an angle with bright daylight or a small flashlight. Also look for residue in places that as hard to clean, like around the forcing cone, gas ring...

 

[rom141]

Look for faint imprints of a cartridge on the recoil shield. Sometimes you have to look at an angle with bright daylight or a small flashlight. Also look for residue in places that as hard to clean, like around the forcing cone, gas ring...

That's the thing, the darn thing has 100% of all bluing intact, and I cant find evidence of anything around the firing pin, forcing cone, or in the recesses of the cylinder. I have a borescope I use for my bee hives that I also use on my revolvers (it is lighted), and it usually tells the true story, but I'm hard pressed to find any evidence of use on this thing except for the smallest of clues. There is ever so slightly a hint of a turn ring on the cylinder, but that's about it. I am mostly a shooter, but this beauty is changing my mind.

 

[PeteC]

That's the thing, the darn thing has 100% of all bluing intact, and I cant find evidence of anything around the firing pin, forcing cone, or in the recesses of the cylinder. I have a borescope I use for my bee hives that I also use on my revolvers (it is lighted), and it usually tells the true story, but I'm hard pressed to find any evidence of use on this thing except for the smallest of clues. There is ever so slightly a hint of a turn ring on the cylinder, but that's about it. I am mostly a shooter, but this beauty is changing my mind.

In that case back to the other theory by gwpercle, some kind of grease or bore protectant dried out over the years. Or, it could be fairy dust... they all think they can just come out on Halloween, and nobody will notice...

Congrats on what sounds like an awesome acquisition, I am duly envious and looking forward to some pics!

 

[smoothshooter]

If not lead oxide, it could be residue from shooting tactical training ammo called " Simunitions ".
It is/was handgun ammo that had a bullet that had a thin semi-transparent plastic shell filled with chalk dust. Was intended to be used for military and law enforcement people to shoot each other with in training scenarios. It was relatively safe to use as long as the recipient was wearing a light ballistic vest or medium heavy clothing. If a shot went a little astray and hit someone in an unprotected area it could be quite painful, I was told.
The only examples I have ever seen were from 20+ years ago and the chalk dust was kind of a pinkish red color. Don't know if other colors such as white were ever used. Seems like the examples I saw were in .38 Special, but other calibers may have been made. I would think they would be for revolvers only because they might not have the recoil impulse to cycle an automatic unless one was willing to work the slide by hand for each shot.
The chalk made a good sized high-visibility splash on the target.
Do not know if they are still made.

 

[rom141]

That's interesting info. I didn't mention it because it was very slight, but I originally thought that the chalk had a bit of tinge to it. Not enough to call it red or even pink really, but I just assumed it was the lighting in my shop that was making it look a bit "colored". More towards the red end of the spectrum than blue is I guess what I mean. Its interesting. If it wasn't so clean and unused looking I don't think I would care that much, but I am now wishing I could know its past and what it has (or has not) seen. Guess I just need to put it in a pretty box and admire it for its mystery. Or maybe take it out and put some serious rounds through it like it was intended for