tlay
US Veteran
It sounds like this one will fit right in with my collection!
"Rare" or "Beware" ?
- Thread starter Engine49guy
- Start date
Hey, this is fun. More, more.
OP
Engine49guy
Member
Good job !
Many astute K22 fans picking up many oddities !
Looks like Lee nailed them all plus the wrong hammer on the earlier posted 1954 tapered barrel K-22 I missed focusing on the TM !
I should have posted the gun pic as well but it was a 4 screw bright blue pre 18, K315519 !
BTW Did 18 (no dash) boxes even have end labels or were they only printed on the box until the dash revisions came into play?
Many astute K22 fans picking up many oddities !
Looks like Lee nailed them all plus the wrong hammer on the earlier posted 1954 tapered barrel K-22 I missed focusing on the TM !
I should have posted the gun pic as well but it was a 4 screw bright blue pre 18, K315519 !
BTW Did 18 (no dash) boxes even have end labels or were they only printed on the box until the dash revisions came into play?
Last edited:
05CarbonDRZ
Member
At least the reblue is well done...
Not in my opinion!
However, the one thing that we collector/accumulators have to acknowledge is that with S&W's, nothing is ever certain.
"An old frame was found in a drawer and assembled with newer parts and shipped 30 years later."
"They didn't have any old boxes so it shipped in a current production box."
"The roll stamp is on the wrong side."
"The serial number is the wrong font for the era."
"It's a five screw but shipped in the 3 screw timeframe."
I am not saying that this is the case here, but we collector/accumulators want everything to be neat and tidy and to follow an exact timeline. It makes trying to figure these old firearms much easier and allows us to sleep at night.
I will restate the fact. With S&W's, NOTHING is ever for certain. Trying to look at every gun ever made and attempting to put it in some order is never going to be 100%. There will always be anomalies that will leave us scratching our heads. S&W was in the business to make money and they cared not how things would look to collectors 100 years later.
I will offer as one of the most well known examples, the crates of light rifles that were found in the factory and sold in the 1970's. OMG, guns built in the 40's but technically shipped in the 70's. The horror of it, it doesn't fit the timeline??????
"An old frame was found in a drawer and assembled with newer parts and shipped 30 years later."
"They didn't have any old boxes so it shipped in a current production box."
"The roll stamp is on the wrong side."
"The serial number is the wrong font for the era."
"It's a five screw but shipped in the 3 screw timeframe."
I am not saying that this is the case here, but we collector/accumulators want everything to be neat and tidy and to follow an exact timeline. It makes trying to figure these old firearms much easier and allows us to sleep at night.
I will restate the fact. With S&W's, NOTHING is ever for certain. Trying to look at every gun ever made and attempting to put it in some order is never going to be 100%. There will always be anomalies that will leave us scratching our heads. S&W was in the business to make money and they cared not how things would look to collectors 100 years later.
I will offer as one of the most well known examples, the crates of light rifles that were found in the factory and sold in the 1970's. OMG, guns built in the 40's but technically shipped in the 70's. The horror of it, it doesn't fit the timeline??????
Last edited:
Interesting, I have a 1954 K22 #212826, Bright blue finish, target non relieved stocks, target hammer and the trademark on the left side, although I believe the trademark is smaller than the op's. It is a strong 95% finish and has the large B stamped on the barrel flat and behind the extractor. The finish wear is consistent throughout, no reason to suspect a reblue.
You'd have to wonder why anybody would spend the money to make the op' k22 what it now is. hmmmmmm
You'd have to wonder why anybody would spend the money to make the op' k22 what it now is. hmmmmmm
ironhead7544
Member
I thought that trademark looked WAY too good.
Continuing the conversation about that spurious K22. Considering the pistol is 60 years old, I'm o/k with the other member assessments about a hammer replacement, a reblue, etc, after all, these things are not unheard of, but the trademark location being the defining issue, with all due respect, I don't think so. Why would you need or want to, move the trademark. What benefit could possibly offset the cost?
Let's think about what it would take to move the trademark, you'll need to make the right side trademark totally disappear from the right side plate, without a trace, smooth as silk, and the same level field as the frame or somehow locate a new side plate that not only fits the frame, but does not have a trademark already stamped into it. Then you would need a trademark die to stamp into the frame, the jigs and fixtures to support the frame and the skill to drive the die into the frame perfectly centered and level and to do so without any frame distortion. Engraving the trademark is another option, but the trademark on that K22 was not engraved on the pistol.
Please keep in mind, that without the gun in hand, it's difficult to be sure of anything, that being said, I think the odds are better that the trademark location is original to the pistol.
Sometimes we find that we have more questions than answers.
Big Rick
Let's think about what it would take to move the trademark, you'll need to make the right side trademark totally disappear from the right side plate, without a trace, smooth as silk, and the same level field as the frame or somehow locate a new side plate that not only fits the frame, but does not have a trademark already stamped into it. Then you would need a trademark die to stamp into the frame, the jigs and fixtures to support the frame and the skill to drive the die into the frame perfectly centered and level and to do so without any frame distortion. Engraving the trademark is another option, but the trademark on that K22 was not engraved on the pistol.
Please keep in mind, that without the gun in hand, it's difficult to be sure of anything, that being said, I think the odds are better that the trademark location is original to the pistol.
Sometimes we find that we have more questions than answers.
Big Rick
usnrigger
Member
I would agree the reblue is not that well done. You can see in the first photo the light rolling around high and lows in polish. To bright for era from photos. It should take time in your hand to spot a good refinish. Seeing it at 4' you might not even know it's been refinished. Some can fool 75%+ of people that look at them. If the guy even wanted a high polish when the refinish was done the flats are to wavy for me. Should have been hand polished to 800 and then used wax base polish with loose wheel.
It's still a nice gun and if functions well would see a lot of range time in my hands. I'll have to post some photos and see all who can spot some refinishes from photos atleast. Fun quiz time
It's still a nice gun and if functions well would see a lot of range time in my hands. I'll have to post some photos and see all who can spot some refinishes from photos atleast. Fun quiz time
bwade
Member
This was an excellent thread to help us all sharpen our observation skills! Thumbs up to Engine49guy, we need more of this.
OP
Engine49guy
Member
Another ..Rare or Beware ?
Advertised as NIB ...
Things that make you go Hmmm ?
3 things just jump out as wrong for a 1965 era gun....
Advertised as NIB ...
Things that make you go Hmmm ?
3 things just jump out as wrong for a 1965 era gun....
Last edited:
YeshuaIsa53
Member
Gun looks good. I have never seen a box for one of those, but did they have grey boxes yet? Five circles on a box with magnas? Where are the diamonds? Doesn't look like target hammer.
OP
Engine49guy
Member
Yes, not a "Wide TH"..so would not be marked as such on box..
1965 serial wold have been diamond Magna era, this gun has post diamond era grips that look like 70's era Magnas.
box would have solid border not rope border style,
label would be suspicious but considering box is wrong era confirms its a fake IMO.
On a side note the nickel is breached on both sides of the muzzle so not a "NIB" gun either .
1965 serial wold have been diamond Magna era, this gun has post diamond era grips that look like 70's era Magnas.
box would have solid border not rope border style,
label would be suspicious but considering box is wrong era confirms its a fake IMO.
On a side note the nickel is breached on both sides of the muzzle so not a "NIB" gun either .
Last edited:
Rigmover
Member
3 things wrong should have dymonds magnas , its a nickel plated model 15-2 not 14-2 as most have 6" barrels and the box says its has a Target Hammer but I don't think so.
But still a very nice gun.
Rick
But still a very nice gun.
Rick
OP
Engine49guy
Member
The only thing legit in the ad is that its a nickel 4" HB 14-2 Dayton gun,
Rigmover
Member
Probably is a Dayton its in the right serial range. The book says they made about 184 of them but nothing about any nickel ones made but knowing S&W anything is possible and only a letter would tell.
Rick
Rick
OP
Engine49guy
Member
IIRC around 1040 HB Dayton guns were made ,
Other nickel 14-2 HB's have popped up but guessing perhaps only around 10% production was nickel ..
Just dont understand why someone would advertise a semi rare gun with bogus grips, box and label then lie about its condition being NIB.
Other nickel 14-2 HB's have popped up but guessing perhaps only around 10% production was nickel ..
Just dont understand why someone would advertise a semi rare gun with bogus grips, box and label then lie about its condition being NIB.
The willful suspension of disbelief comes to mind. Still, an unusual and nice looking gun. Is nickel legit?
Similar threads
