REAL flight problems

[LVSteve]

As if the Southwest meltdown over Christmas wasn't enough, recently there have been a slew of near accidents driven by airport controllers and some bizarre flight diversions.

The near misses have taken place at Austin, JFK, Honolulu, and Burbank. These have variously involved aircraft being cleared for takeoff while another is landing or runway incursions.

Yet Another Nearly Catastrophic Air Collision Narrowly Averted In California, According To Report | The Daily Caller

JFK's international terminal has power problems resulting in several international flights being turned around mid air. Turin to Turin? 8 hours. Auckland to Auckland? 16 hours. WTH are flights leaving their origin when the destination is hosed???

Power outage cancels, diverts flights at Kennedy Airport | AP News

But for the ultimate in bizarre, there is the story of a flight in Japan that missed the closure time of its destination airport by ten minutes because of delays leaving Tokyo. As no airport anywhere on the route could handle the large plane and its number of passengers, it went back to Tokyo. Seems the Japanese have zero tolerance for being late. I'm sure Onomea can fill us in on that cultural feature.

Japanese Flight Forced to Turn Around After Missing Landing Deadline by 10 Minutes

Japan Airlines Airbus A350 Diverts Twice And Returns To Tokyo

 

[martyd]

I use to have a 90% travel job, 65% by air and loved the air travel, that has all changed.

After watching Airline Disasters on the Smithsonian TV channel I try not to fly.

 

[Onomea]

The Japanese love their rules. A rule is a rule. I was once in a restaurant in small city an hour or so out of Tokyo and asked for a double bourbon on the rocks. The waiter looked confused, went away briefly, and upon his return worriedly said, "Sir, we are terribly sorry but I checked with the manager and we only have singles here."

I said, "I see. Let me have one single straight up, and another single on the rocks, please."

That worked like a charm. Just figure out what their rules are and help them check the boxes they need checked.

Alternatively, if you can't work within the rules to get what you want, break the rule, get what you want, and then apologize with every appearance of deep sincerity. That works, too.

If I were the captain of the above plane, I would have noted an extremely worrying warning light blinking. Major safety issue. Upon landing, and the passengers disembarking, the warning light would have mysteriously stopped blinking.

i would then have been very, very, very sorry, and adamant that such an egregious error, while beyond my control, would never, ever happen again.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Alternatively, if you can't work within the rules to get what you want, break the rule, get what you want, and then apologize with every appearance of deep sincerity. That works, too.

Much truth to the adage "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission".

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[ameridaddy]

....
i would then have been very, very, very sorry, and adamant that such an egregious error, while beyond my control, would never, ever happen again.

That was my observation during my one summer on a project in Japan. Having things go as planned is a big deal for the Japanese, a matter of saving face.
I remember being in endless meetings for every small issue that came up. Their planning was unbelievably thorough, but their response to the unexpected was maddening.
On D-day, on schedule, we started the production machinery for our new product, and 30 seconds in the machine stopped. A sea of Japanese guys in suits started gesturing, waving arms and jabbering away at each other, and my Japan-experienced colleague whispered in my ear
"For G*d's sake, do something, or we'll have another **** meeting!"
I went to the machine, had a look, spoke to the maintenance tech (the only guy not in a suit, but in blue work pants and smock), he made a small adjustment and - zoom - off we went.
He knew what to do, but was afraid to step up with all those suits present. Gaijin "expert consultant" in a suit's instruction made it OK.
Bottom line, it seems the Japanese have skill, pride, outstanding planning, but don't adapt to the unexpected very well, which may be due to their respect for authority and top down culture.

 

[Onomea]

Spot on, ameridaddy. Re stepping in, being unconventional to get things done, we used to call it "the gaijin wildcard."

Played that card many times.

 

[biku324]

We're spoiled. The pre-COVID travel smoothness is over, as travel is way up and the Boomer controllers are now nearly all gone. You don't get 35 years of experience in really complex tasks in 18 months no matter how good the training.

 

[kaaskop49]

There are prolly more near-misses than we (want to) know. On my 1st flight to Vegas in Jan 2008, the pilot of our Delta flight was coming in to land when he violently pulled up and to the left. He explained momentarily that another aircraft had barged into the landing pattern in front of us w/o tower OK. We landed safely about 20 minutes later. However, the incident was apparently officially ignored as there was no mention of it.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[LVSteve]

There are prolly more near-misses than we (want to) know. On my 1st flight to Vegas in Jan 2008, the pilot of our Delta flight was coming in to land when he violently pulled up and to the left. He explained momentarily that another aircraft had barged into the landing pattern in front of us w/o tower OK. We landed safely about 20 minutes later. However, the incident was apparently officially ignored as there was no mention of it.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Funny old thing. The only missed approach I've been on was also at McCarran. Apparently a vehicle moved across the runway the pilot was aiming at.

 

[Walkin Horse]

That was my observation during my one summer on a project in Japan. Having things go as planned is a big deal for the Japanese, a matter of saving face.
I remember being in endless meetings for every small issue that came up. Their planning was unbelievably thorough, but their response to the unexpected was maddening.
On D-day, on schedule, we started the production machinery for our new product, and 30 seconds in the machine stopped. A sea of Japanese guys in suits started gesturing, waving arms and jabbering away at each other, and my Japan-experienced colleague whispered in my ear
"For G*d's sake, do something, or we'll have another **** meeting!"
I went to the machine, had a look, spoke to the maintenance tech (the only guy not in a suit, but in blue work pants and smock), he made a small adjustment and - zoom - off we went.
He knew what to do, but was afraid to step up with all those suits present. Gaijin "expert consultant" in a suit's instruction made it OK.
Bottom line, it seems the Japanese have skill, pride, outstanding planning, but don't adapt to the unexpected very well, which may be due to their respect for authority and top down culture.

Was this at the noodle plant?

 

[jeffrefrig]

No problem here! I've never flown in my life, in an aircraft. There's no place to pull over in the middle of the Pacific if you get an idiot light!

 

[ameridaddy]

Was this at the noodle plant?

No, a tobacco plant.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

During my 10 years of owning and flying a Cessna Cardinal I experienced five near misses involving another aircraft. Three of the five events happened when I was under under air traffic control. The controllers all made mistakes that cold have resulted in fatal accidents. I recorded all of my radio transmissions and after the most serious one I took the recording to a Flight Service Station and played if for them. Their reaction was " Oh well, we all make mistakes". I couldn't believe their total lack of concern..a real I could care less attitude.

 

[BC38]

Much truth to the adage "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to get permission".

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

FWIW, that was my first thought too!

 

[jeffrefrig]

Still no flying here, yet, and now I have to take special meds before those all day road trips! Don't stop for gas when the guy on the porch is playing a banjo.