Relying on a vintage firearm for SD/EDC

Thinking about it again in perspective: 35 years ago I carried a 35 year old Colt Cobra which had been fired twice before it came to me. I carried it a lot and fired it a little. For the last 20 years it has laid in the safe, well lubricated. I see no reason to believe that the passage of time alone has rendered it less reliable.
 
Sorry no pictures. A few weeks ago that talented fellow from Colorado sold me a particularly elegant pair of K frame stags for a 15-2. (Tnx, Ken!) Since I generally carried that 15–2 onboard a car, I needed another candidate.

I rummaged around and found another 38 special. Yes, a decent looking factory nickel M&P. Serial number 4138xx indicates probably right around 1922, good because it has the slightly heat treated cylinder. So, having found in the leather department a svelte (non maker-marked) closed toe thumb strap 4” K frame holster, I have a new rig for sometime car carry. Action is smooth and very tight, Barrel is pristine, actually like new; and the fake stag grips give it that old time look! (Thus conserving the pencil #’d original grips.)

So, the answer to the OP question is “yes “. I think that particular S&W will be just fine. Thanks for asking.
 
I also probably would not carry a 1911 made prior to about 1924 when they started hardening the slides due to wear and cracking issues on the older 1911s

It's my understanding that 1911 and A1 slides were not hardened until after WW2. At least the ones produced for the military.

I could be wrong about that but it's the reason I don't shoot my RR with a Colt slide that is WW2 vintage. If I could get some good verification that the slide was hardened I'd probably shoot it some. I have another 1911 that gets a regular workout.

A collector over on another forum insisted that they were not hardened but I don't know the facts.
 
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It's my understanding that 1911 and A1 slides were not hardened until after WW2. At least the ones produced for the military.

I could be wrong about that but it's the reason I don't shoot my RR with a Colt slide that is WW2 vintage. If I could get some good verification that the slide was hardened I'd probably shoot it some. I have another 1911 that gets a regular workout.

A collector over on another forum insisted that they were not hardened but I don't know the facts.

Two thoughts.

First, I can’t speak directly to the A1 slides, as it may have only applied to the Colt commercial slides. What changed for Colt was the availability of tungsten carbide cutting tool steel which Colt began using in 1924.

The high speed tool steel used prior to that could not mill a hardened slide to its final dimension, which is why the slides could not be heat treated as the heat treat process warped the slide, and in particular the rails on the slide.

The government might not have cared on the A12 and might not have specified the front portion of the slide be hardened.

Second, there are also three different things referenced in terms of hardening.

The biggest issue with the 1911 slide was that the slide could crack about 1/3rd of the way back where the recoil spring cover stops and steps to the slide rail, creating a sharp corner / stress riser. My understanding is this is the portion of the slide that was hardened on Colt commercial pistols beginning in 1924.

My understanding is that all 1911A1s also had this area hardened, but I could be wrong. It’s possible that pre war A1 slides were hardened in the front third of the slide during a post war arsenal refurbishment. Generally speaking, “new” 1911A1s showed some discoloration in this area from the heat treatment process, much like heel dipped Garand receivers( where the rear of the receiver was hardened by dipping the rear half in molten lead).

However, after refinishing that discoloration on 1911 slides is much less visible.

Slide stop notches were spot hardened beginning in 1942, to prevent the slide stop notch from peening. These are Star BM pistols, not 1911s, but when they started having issues with slide stops cracking, they started drilling the corner to create a larger radius and then spot heat treated that area. On the lower pistol it’s very evident. On the one above, it’s not.

C85DBA95-47C5-4ED9-8E54-FD41ADDBF6C3_zpsek2n0ukp.jpg


Fully hardened slides were experimented with during WWII, and if I remember correctly Remington-Rand used induction hardening for this, with questionable results. However, fully hardened slides didn’t appear on the Colt Commerical pistols until 1947.

The government didn’t buy many 1911A1 after WWII, but IIrC did buy a batch in 1950 gearing up for the Korean conflict and my understanding is that these were fully hardened, along with a handful that were fully hardened late in the war as various manufacturers experimented with it.

That would mean that very few A1 slides were ever “fully hardened”.
 
I see this statement all the time. If I am involved in a self defense shooting the gun is the least of my worries. Besides I am probably more apt to damage my carry gun by dropping it, or bumping it into something, than using it in a defense shooting and then having the police mess it up. Besides if you are under investigation for a homicide what makes you think the police will not take possession of ALL your guns???? A good self defense shooting IS a homicide. The question they will be looking at is it a justifiable homicide, manslaughter, negligent homicide or a murder.

My carry guns are hard to come by, Either 325 PDs or a 431, both of which now command about a $1500 price tag. They get hostler worn etc. Carrying a gun around all the time is NOT going to improve its value. LOL. But, I want what I feel id the best tool for ME to defend me and mine with. The value is a distant second.

If it’s a questionable shoot you are going to get arrested and the gun(s) you have on you will be taken and held as evidence. If the district attorney/states attorney charges you, they are not going to worry about your other guns unless you make bail, a PR bond or otherwise. In that case a condition of the bail will be surrendering your firearms so that you do not pose a threat to someone else. If you are acquitted, or the charges are eventually dropped or plead to a misdemeanor that does not make a you a prohibited individual you will get them back.

Of course that could take months and they may store them all in a big pile on a wet concrete floor over by the leaky water heater, so there’s that.

——

But the issue at hand here is that even if it appears to be a valid shoot and you are not arrested, the odds are high that your handgun will be taken into evidence for the purpose of ballistic testing to support your account of what happened. That still might take awhile and it still might be marked with a case number.

In that case however, if you own another gun, you could still carry it, provided they also didn’t confiscate your concealed carry permit pending the outcome of the investigation.
 
All true. One point, if you don't make bail you had best hope for a good out come at trial and have someone you trust to look after you guns and the rest of your stuff, make house payments etc. Plus, IF you get charged, the values of the gun will be a blip on the windshield in comparison to bail money, lawyer fees, lost wages. etc etc etc. Again, the gun will be the least of your problems.

I have plenty of other guns if all they do is take the one I used. But, like I also said it I am involved in a shooting the least of my concerns is the gun. Me and mine mean way more than a gun.

But, also as I stated carrying a gun around every day will not improve its looks. Even if you spent most of you time at a desk wearing a suit, the grips will have cloth rubbing them, exposure to a little sweat or at least humidity, chair arm bumps, getting in and out of cars. Holster rubs. Carry a gun for a year and it will become a shooter grade gun. IF you have to use it may or may not get taken into evidence. IF that happens it may or may not get marked. It does not happen everywhere and every time. As I said it would be the least of my worries and if it did get marked and you did get it back, on a shooter grade carry gun it would just be interesting past of the guns history. Again. Least of my worries

Lotta IFs. IF I use it, IF it gets taken in as evidence, IF it gets marked, IF I get charged, IF I make bail, IF the charges get dropped or I win in court.

Earlier this summer I had a flat tire on a Sunday in the middle of nowhere. It would have been a long time waiting for AAA. I emptied the trunk and changed the tire wearing a 325, reloaded trunk, drove 35 miles on the doughnut, got to a where I could buy a plug, Installed plug, Inflated tire, changed out the doughnut. Doing stuff like that is more apt to damage a 325 than the chances of getting it evidence marked. Like I said, I am far more apt to mess it up by dropping it.
 
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I don't understand why people buy a car for thousands of dollars and drive it for a few years and it's worth nothing and they think it's ok. Go on an expensive vacation and spend thousands and nothing to show for it but memories, AND THEN worry about losing a couple of thousand on a pistol that saved their life.
There's money and guns made every day. Lose one, go buy another. Larry
 
Interesting case here. A judge had to order the return of guns seized from a cop killer’s parents. They weren’t the shooter’s guns, weren’t used in the crime, and weren’t used as evidence in the trial or the appeal. Had them for 8 years.


MSN
 
I'd choose to carry my 1913 .38 HE, 1923 .44 HE, or my 1950 M&P .38 instead of anything I do carry - they are my best shooters - better triggers, better accuracy. But all three are too big for CC. Instead my choices now are my 1983 Mdl 38 j-frame (inside the waist with a Bulldog pocket holster, and DeSantis Clip Grip), or one of my P365XL's.

Had two gun-pulling incidents in my life (both while I was a music club sound tech), and no discharges, and no questions from the police other than "did you discharge your firearm?", and nothing other than checking my gun for firing, and writing down my statement.
 
Agree with all who stated it's more about condition and reliability than age.

I have lots of options for EDC including a SIG 365XL which I like and find pretty convenient. More often than not I carry a Chief's Special (barely a pre-Model 36) J-frame shipped early in 1957. It's a birth year S&W for me, all original, and in superb condition.

Very accurate, easy to shoot, and it's about the only EDC I own that I can actually forget I'm carrying. It goes on a belt outside the waistband, high, and shirt-tails easily cover it. That's the reason it gets worn so often.

The fact that it's 65 years old is irrelevant for practical purposes. It isn't everyone's idea of an EDC but the one I'll wear beats the ones I won't or don't.

When it comes to choosing an everyday carry (EDC) pistol, there are several factors to consider. Here are a few ideas to help you make an informed decision:

1. Glock 19: The Glock 19 is a popular choice for EDC due to its reliability, compact size, and larger magazine capacity.

2. Smith & Wesson M&P Shield: This pistol offers a slim profile, making it easy to conceal, and it comes in various calibers to suit your preference.

3. Sig Sauer P365: Known for its high capacity and compact size, the P365 is a great option for those looking for a subcompact EDC pistol.

4. Springfield XD-S: This single-stack pistol offers a slim profile and comes in various calibers, making it a good choice for concealed carry.

5. Ruger LCP II: If you're looking for a lightweight and highly concealable option, the Ruger LCP II is worth considering. It's chambered in .380 ACP and is great for pocket carry.

Remember, choosing an EDC pistol is a personal decision, and it's essential to try out different options, consider your shooting preferences, and seek professional guidance to ensure you find the right fit for you.
 
I would, and have, carried my old ones.. only predate me by 20 years or so... it's the NEW ones that haven't quite proven themselves that I am hesitant on...
 
The oldest pistol that I have carried for self-defense is a Colt Model 1903 Hammer in .38ACP (this morphed into the .38 Super). Good little gun carried well in a pocket or in the Bible case.
 

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As long as the gun is still in safe working order, I see no reason why one couldn't use a vintage firearm for self-defense.

In fact, in many ways it would be rather hypocritical for most folks to call issue with using an otherwise operational vintage firearm for self-defense when even the most modern firearms are still based on technology from over a century ago.
Seriously, John Moses Browning's tilting barrel, locked breach design is still the dominant action type within the firearms industry, and the most popular pistol cartridges in use today are likewise over a century old, so what difference does it make whether the gun itself is old or new if it works?

Heck, I've heard that folks who cannot legally own modern firearms often use reproductions of old Black Powder Cap and Ball Revolvers for self-defense, which are obviously lethal, so if that's all they've got available to them, why not?
 
I have at times, and will again, carry my 1892 Colt SAA .45 when I feel the urge. It has been fitted with a smokeless proofed cylinder and maintained well. I trust it and my ability with it. I have shot more single actions than everything else put together (and it has been a lot,) but everything else has broken way more than the single actions.
 
When it comes to choosing an everyday carry (EDC) pistol, there are several factors to consider. Here are a few ideas to help you make an informed decision:

1. Glock 19: The Glock 19 is a popular choice for EDC due to its reliability, compact size, and larger magazine capacity.

2. Smith & Wesson M&P Shield: This pistol offers a slim profile, making it easy to conceal, and it comes in various calibers to suit your preference.

3. Sig Sauer P365: Known for its high capacity and compact size, the P365 is a great option for those looking for a subcompact EDC pistol.

4. Springfield XD-S: This single-stack pistol offers a slim profile and comes in various calibers, making it a good choice for concealed carry.

5. Ruger LCP II: If you're looking for a lightweight and highly concealable option, the Ruger LCP II is worth considering. It's chambered in .380 ACP and is great for pocket carry.

Remember, choosing an EDC pistol is a personal decision, and it's essential to try out different options, consider your shooting preferences, and seek professional guidance to ensure you find the right fit for you.

Is AI our newest member?
 
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I alternate between a 1958-59 S/N range Model 36, a twenty one year old P-232 Sig and a four month old Sig P-365. Depends where I’m going, how I’m going and how the planets are aligned for lack of a better excuse.
 
When it comes to choosing an everyday carry (EDC) pistol, there are several factors to consider. Here are a few ideas to help you make an informed decision:

1. Glock 19: The Glock 19 is a popular choice for EDC due to its reliability, compact size, and larger magazine capacity.

2. Smith & Wesson M&P Shield: This pistol offers a slim profile, making it easy to conceal, and it comes in various calibers to suit your preference.

3. Sig Sauer P365: Known for its high capacity and compact size, the P365 is a great option for those looking for a subcompact EDC pistol.

4. Springfield XD-S: This single-stack pistol offers a slim profile and comes in various calibers, making it a good choice for concealed carry.

5. Ruger LCP II: If you're looking for a lightweight and highly concealable option, the Ruger LCP II is worth considering. It's chambered in .380 ACP and is great for pocket carry.

Remember, choosing an EDC pistol is a personal decision, and it's essential to try out different options, consider your shooting preferences, and seek professional guidance to ensure you find the right fit for you.



These are vintage?? Maybe in another 50 years or so......
 

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