Report on J-frame quality control

[Budnjax]

S&W in the 1970's were awful

If you think today's S&W revolvers are sloppy they used to be even worse. Back in the 1970's I worked for a major S&W general distributor and the guns put out under Bangor Punta ownership were frequently awful. I ordered a new model 36 3 inch nickel for myself and it looked great. Fired 5 factory wadcutters and had to punch them out of the cylinder with a dowel and hammer; cylinder was unfinished. Had a model 29 come in with no rifling, got a model 27 marked "44 Magnum." We once got a shipment of model 66 revolvers for the State Highway Patrol and they sent their head armorer to inspect the shipment. He turned the whole batch down due to bad quality control and back they went to Springfield. I read a story years ago that S&W had a survey done of their handgun purchasers and something like 80% never fired the gun they bought! Most just loaded it, put it in a drawer and hoped they never needed it. Wonder how many of those would never have gone "bang" if needed. Oh well, at least that 80% didn't know they bought a lemon.

 

[Octavian1978]

Slabside2, such a big let down when you're opening up an xmas gift just to find it broken. Hopefully you didn't fill out the background check and were able to return it to the seller. 900$ for a revolver and its arrives in pieces! I'd be furious. Sometimes I wonder if a few of these QC issues take place at the gunstores from mishandling by customers and what not? These situations really are disappointing to say the least. Hope it ends well

 

[slabside2]

Slabside2, such a big let down when you're opening up an xmas gift just to find it broken. Hopefully you didn't fill out the background check and were able to return it to the seller. 900$ for a revolver and its arrives in pieces! I'd be furious. Sometimes I wonder if a few of these QC issues take place at the gunstores from mishandling by customers and what not? These situations really are disappointing to say the least. Hope it ends well

Yep, $25.00 for the transfer but the dealer is willing to refund all the funds. Yes very disappointed. Guess I'll keep shooting my LCR

 

[turbo38gn]

I've been saying away from the new S&W revolvers for a couple of years now after playing the (will send you a shipping label to return it) but decided to take a chance on a BRAND NEW 340pd on Gunbroker. I picked it up today. Cost close to $900.00 I opened the box all excited and this what I seen. The blast shield was falling off. Now it's safe to say I'm DONE for good with the newer guns

since it's so messed up... I'll give you 450 for it... You wouldn't want to sell it for new..

 

[ladder13]

If you think today's S&W revolvers are sloppy they used to be even worse. Back in the 1970's I worked for a major S&W general distributor and the guns put out under Bangor Punta ownership were frequently awful. I ordered a new model 36 3 inch nickel for myself and it looked great. Fired 5 factory wadcutters and had to punch them out of the cylinder with a dowel and hammer; cylinder was unfinished. Had a model 29 come in with no rifling, got a model 27 marked "44 Magnum." We once got a shipment of model 66 revolvers for the State Highway Patrol and they sent their head armorer to inspect the shipment. He turned the whole batch down due to bad quality control and back they went to Springfield. I read a story years ago that S&W had a survey done of their handgun purchasers and something like 80% never fired the gun they bought! Most just loaded it, put it in a drawer and hoped they never needed it. Wonder how many of those would never have gone "bang" if needed. Oh well, at least that 80% didn't know they bought a lemon.

Impossible, I read it on the net.

 

[Edmo]

My 640 Pro came with the removable rear sight option and is chambered for the little known "335577 MMAG" round.

It is back at the mother ship... Third time back.

On the plus side, if you are an investor in S&W stock it has performed well in the recent years.

Edmo

 

[Rick_A]

I have a mix from 1950's to present. The closest to perfect is a lowly 442-1. The sloppiest is a 1980 10-8 that's the best fixed sight shooter. An ugly 2015 M67 is the best shooter overall. The vintage guns (1950's) are nice in external finish but are nothing special otherwise (other than being rather rare and sought after). They all shoot.

 

[ladder13]

Let's see... S&W introduced a K-Frame .357 "in the good old days" that had a forcing cone that was susceptible to cracking under .357 Magnum stresses.

Yep, I guess they don't make them like they used to.

I've seen a few pictures on this forum of canted barrels from 1970's and earlier era revolvers.

And I've also seen many posts on this forum regarding new production revolvers and alleged problems such as:

"rough edges" on the crown
"rough edges" in the forcing cone
"imperfect ribs" on the barrel
"canted barrel" where one needs a blow up the picture X10 to discern the cant

And so on.

I've had some legitimate problems with some smiths - One new 60-14 had a very loos yoke, and smith fixed it. But you know what? I had an old Model 60 square butt from the 1970's that had the same problem!

All is well, folks. The hand basket holding the world is still a long way from hell.

You forgot about all the old J(38, 37) and K Airweights(M12) with cracked frames due to overtorqued barrels.
Yep, don't make em' like they used to.

Almost forgot. Oversized throats on M25's.

Then there's this 28-2 owned by a forum member.

Maybe we should move on to those 1st, 2nd and 3rd G semi's now?

 

[slabside2]

Today's Smith+Wesson handguns and JUNK TRASH GARBAGE their I said it! All the money time and disspointment I wasted on them over the passed 5 years just pisses me off thinking about it. You guys that got a good one that actually works right out of the box count your blessings but some of us are just not that lucky. Was I a dope after I kept getting a bad one and kept buying another one YES I was. I don't see it getting any better I see it getting worse if that's even possible. It not just S+W it's most all the gun manufacturers guns right now. The odds are down to 30% of getting a good one right out of the box and them odds suck when your buying something your depning on to possibly save you life. Rant done. Oh yea HAPPY EASTER to all.
Mike

 

[Pointblank2U]

I'm really glad I bought a bunch of old S&W revolvers in the last decade or so. I'm keeping them and probably won't buy any new ones. Let me say this, I've been shooting since I was a kid and love revolvers.

I recently bought an LCR in 357 Magnum and it is without question the best ccw revolver in that caliber I've even seen. I have actually enjoyed shooting 357s in it. Of course I stay away from the super hot rounds and stick with Golden Saber, Gold Dot Short Barrel and Corbon DPX, but man, it's nice to carry 357s and know you can deliver an accurate punch with them. At about 17 oz., you can easily pocket carry it too.

 

[slabside2]

I'm really glad I bought a bunch of old S&W revolvers in the last decade or so. I'm keeping them and probably won't buy any new ones. Let me say this, I've been shooting since I was a kid and love revolvers.

I recently bought an LCR in 357 Magnum and it is without question the best ccw revolver in that caliber I've even seen. I have actually enjoyed shooting 357s in it. Of course I stay away from the super hot rounds and stick with Golden Saber, Gold Dot Short Barrel and Corbon DPX, but man, it's nice to carry 357s and know you can deliver an accurate punch with them. At about 17 oz., you can easily pocket carry it too.

I'm with you. I have a LCR in 38spl. and love it!

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

All the money time and disspointment I wasted on them over the passed 5 years just pisses me off thinking about it. You guys that got a good one that actually works right out of the box count your blessings but some of us are just not that lucky. Was I a dope after I kept getting a bad one and kept buying another one YES I was. I don't see it getting any better I see it getting worse if that's even possible. It not just S+W it's most all the gun manufacturers guns right now. The odds are down to 30% of getting a good one right out of the box and them odds suck when your buying something your depning on to possibly save you life. Rant done. Oh yea HAPPY EASTER to all.
Mike

Mike, I'm about through with buying guns, but the S&W revolvers I've bought in the last five to ten years have almost all been great. For the last twenty to thirty years most of my guns have been bought at my LGS. Also most of my supplies. Most of the guns have been used. I get to test-drive the used ones (which the store-owner has already inspected), which is pretty important when you're buying a fixed-sight gun. I have not been disappointed. I even traded for a 625-10 on this forum, and received it through my LGS. When the frame cracked for reasons which are not 100% clear, he shipped it off to S&W and got a credit for a free new S&W of my choice (nickel 22-4 1917 copy). That's sometimes how it works when you direct all your business to one LGS for a few decades.

I guess my main point is that S&W, like others, has its occasional problems. It's on YOU to test-drive the gun, preferably before purchase, and to try to deal in an environment where the dealer and/or manufacturer will back you up, somehow. This is not new. I had to do it back in the seventies when I was trying to find a 63 decent enough to buy, and I do it now through my LGS.

BTW, when the 642 FIRST came out, I had to have one. It went straight back to S&W for lack of carry-up (hand timing). They fixed it, and I'm still carrying it. I won't tell you how the sideplate fits the frame, but it does fit. There's no one decade that's all good or all bad.

My advice is to pick an LGS and give him a chance. Of course, your situation may dictate otherwise.

 

[HeyJoe]

im happy with my .327 LCR. my first new ruger revolver. i wouldnt hesitate to buy another. I have 10 smith and wesson revolvers, four bought new, two since 2011, all of which i am happy with and which function well

 

[ladder13]

Rugers are a great option for revolver lovers, and if I didn't have so many nice Smith's and really not interested in any more handguns, I'd be seriously taking a look.

My last 3 gun purchases were based on price alone, sort of against my rule of not buying guns I don't really need nor want, but the prices were too good and the guns were thrown at me.
Paid $200 for a 6904 with 5 mags, $250 for a 64-4 snub, and $300 for a Colt Agent.

Currently looking to cull the herd, it's way too large for me, the pile kind of creeped up on me. Going to sell my collector guns first, some already listed on the net.

 

[F75gunslinger]

I honestly think that the internet has made what used to be a very big world very small these days. You can go on this site, and we have people posting from all over the world. And everyone who gets a bad one will post about it. When someone does,we all read the post, and we put whatever little tidbit of information that we found in the back of our minds to keep in mind when we buy a new gun. Now when someone gets a new gun and posts about ti being perfect, or exactly what they wanted or thought it would be, there is no tidbit of what to look for next time, so our mind dismisses it far sooner. Not saying that S&W isn't putting out a bad gun here and there, but at least they're willing to fix the issue most of the time on their dime.

 

[Inusuit]

I wish I had a LGS with 10 S&W revolvers in the case, let alone 10 J frames.

 

[Octavian1978]

Its a lot easier to remember and focus on the negative than the millions of positive outcomes. Again though, I wonder how much of these QC issues occur at the lgs from mishandling and what not? I also wonder how many gunstores sell these guns online knowing they're defective or in pieces even? It's a shame to have to question monetary motives when selling something defective knowingly, that's supposed to defend someone's life possibly. Who do we blame when a product sits on a shelf for months even years, is handled by countless hands, and finally sold as a new product still? S&W, or the stores.

 

[Arik]

I have a 642. It's forcing c9ne is a little rough, I can't be certain but I think barrel may be canted a hair. When I load it and shoot it hits where I aim, doesn't have issues with reliability. ...and that's all I want in a handgun.

 

[Silver Creek Al]

Unfortunately, even purchasing a new S&W revolver nowdays (2016), a 640-2, one has to carefully examine the revolver for fit and function... and remember that it has probably been stored in a cool place for a while... it will warm up and expand a bit when shot... sure it shoots but I am very disappointed with S&W quality control... when closing the cylinder it scrapes the bottom of the barrel but is parallel to the barrel when closed....unfortunately the barrel cylinder gap is a bit large, .017....

 

[wrangler5]

Bud's recently had some 432s in stock (basically a 6-shot 442 in 32 H&R Magnum) at a time when I was looking for one. Grabbed it immediately (they're all gone now from Bud's web site - can't even set up an alert if they ever come back in stock.)

When it arrived at the LGS for transfer it had (1) a rather notchy trigger pull, (2) a hammer pivot pin that was standing ~0.013 proud of the frame below the cylinder release button, and (3) a bolt that didn't come flush with the recoil shield, so swinging the cylinder out was a pretty notchy thing that took both hands to make happen. (I usually do swing the cylinder using 2 hands, but I like the gun to be fitted properly enough that I can push the cylinder out with my index finger while pushing the release button with my thumb - all but 1 of my other S&Ws can do this.)

I called S&W immediately, and they suggested shooting it to see if the trigger and/or bolt issues changed any. So I went to the range, shot ~150 rounds of both 32 Long and 32 H&R, and just fell in love with the gun and the H&R round. Much more comfortable to shoot than my 442, even using cowboy loads in the latter. The trigger was smoothing out, but the bolt still worked the same, and the hammer pivot pin was still proud of the frame.

Called S&W, they said send it back, which I did. They called yesterday and said the gun cannot be repaired, they have no 32 caliber guns to offer as a replacement, and offered a 442. I told the lady I was carrying a 442 at the time and didn't need another one, and had a 638, 49, 640 and 2-inch 64, so didn't really need any more snub nose 38s. I also told her my old joints really couldn't shoot anything larger than 38 any more. She said she would see what she could come up with and call me back, but I am not optimistic.

If she does call back empty handed I'm going to suggest that they send my 432 over to the Performance Center along with an empty (no lock - gotta dream) 442 frame and have 'em move the barrel and cylinder from my frame to the new one, along with the innards and a properly sized bolt.

Any bets on how hard they'd laugh at that? I'd actually be willing to pay a fair bit to have that work done, as this is the first small gun I've found that I think my wife might be willing to carry. (She has shot a few of my small 38s and simply will not do so again. And she cannot rack the slide on any of the many centerfire autoloaders I've had her try.) The few 32 caliber S&Ws that I see on Gunbroker are all priced as collector's items.

Bottom line, though, for purposes of this thread, is that S&W sure dropped the QC ball on this particular gun.

Do they ever just offer money back if they can't provide an acceptable replacement?