MaximumLawman
Member
So if you shot him through a lung and he went down, you'd step up and put one through his head to finish him off??
Responsibility regarding concealed carry
- Thread starter atheophilos
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So if you shot him through a lung and he went down, you'd step up and put one through his head to finish him off??
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
There's a saying that goes;"The best fight your ever in is the one you don't attend."
snub56 makes a great case for going for the cel phone first and notifying the authorities FIRST!
As to the "three shots" thing. Remember if you engage, you do it till the threat is down! If you've fired once and the threat is down you keep them covered till the bus shows up with the police.
In the end its up to you on wether or not to respond. Dale
snub56 makes a great case for going for the cel phone first and notifying the authorities FIRST!
As to the "three shots" thing. Remember if you engage, you do it till the threat is down! If you've fired once and the threat is down you keep them covered till the bus shows up with the police.
In the end its up to you on wether or not to respond. Dale
oldguyshoot
Member
I don't think most people conceal carry a firearm worthy of intervention. Intervention implies distance, and unless you're carrying a full-size weapon, you are not well-equipped for the task.
For me:
Pocket lint 380: pray it works - point blank range (why I don't own one)
Small revolver / Sub-compact auto: 6-15 feet
Compact auto or mid-sized short-barrel revolver - out to 20 feet
Full-size auto or revolver - 20 feet +
And the above is IF I'm not completely dumped with adrenaline, in which case all distances above are cut short.
So even if I see someone in need of help, I have to balance my abilities and capabilities with the situation. My EDC is a M&P J frame with CT laser grips, so that dictates how I can respond even if compelled. On the weekends I carry an FN Five-seveN with CT green laser in a shoulder bag, so I have the ability if required to engage a target wearing body armor at a decent distance and in a sustained manner.
And as others have mentioned, I would not get involved unless I thought mine or another's life were in immenant danger.
For me:
Pocket lint 380: pray it works - point blank range (why I don't own one)
Small revolver / Sub-compact auto: 6-15 feet
Compact auto or mid-sized short-barrel revolver - out to 20 feet
Full-size auto or revolver - 20 feet +
And the above is IF I'm not completely dumped with adrenaline, in which case all distances above are cut short.
So even if I see someone in need of help, I have to balance my abilities and capabilities with the situation. My EDC is a M&P J frame with CT laser grips, so that dictates how I can respond even if compelled. On the weekends I carry an FN Five-seveN with CT green laser in a shoulder bag, so I have the ability if required to engage a target wearing body armor at a decent distance and in a sustained manner.
And as others have mentioned, I would not get involved unless I thought mine or another's life were in immenant danger.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
At risk of sounding obtuse as well as ignorant, how does intervention necessarily imply distance? I can visualize any number of situations in which intervening could well be at point-blank range.
venomballistics
Member
Squarebutt
Member
Here's a very interesting article on the timeline and the aftermath of the event at a trailer park in TX about a year ago. Bad guy shot two neighbors, was about to ambush a deputy when a 66-year old neighbor shot him with a Python from about 150 feet. The part involving Gov. Perry made my day:
One Year Later: The Long Range Peach House Gunfight
One Year Later: The Long Range Peach House Gunfight
Der Biermeister
Member
No -- definitely not. However, I am unsure if I would be able to ascertain quickly that I have totally disabled the felon with the first shot. I am not an expert in shooting people. I also probably wouldn't be zeroing in on just where my shot hit -- so I imagine (trying to see myself in this type of situation) I would definitely fire a second shot, and possibly three. If he was down and not able to return fire, I would NOT fire again. I would actually try to do some first aid on him. I am a past EMT and Cardiac Technician (an offshoot of a paramedic) and am quite familiar with trauma victims.
Poodle Soup
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Would I chase the guy who stole your grannies purse down the street? No
Would I come to her aid if the *** decided to smack her around? Yup.
Would I chase the guy who stole MY grannies purse down the street? You betcha : p
All depends on the situation. They can have the banks money, just not the bank employees life.
Would I come to her aid if the *** decided to smack her around? Yup.
Would I chase the guy who stole MY grannies purse down the street? You betcha : p
All depends on the situation. They can have the banks money, just not the bank employees life.
I think he's got a point. But wouldn't you rather be ready for either? As I stated in another thread, mouse guns ain't gonna get it done. Mouse guns are for PERSONAL protection and inadequate to defend others at any distance past 5-7 yards.
There are many, too many variables but you could also close the distance. But will you have TIME?
MaximumLawman
Member
It's a little harder than most people realize to kill someone with a handgun when both of them are moving around, three shots or not. You said the bad guy is "a dead man", implying you'd kill him at all costs. Might want to change your outlook.
Murdock
Member
And lest we forget, if we are involved in a shooting, the words we type on a forum like this can be mined for evidence against us regarding our intent and mindset. It won't be fair, and will not be presented in context.
Our words matter. Speak with the future in mind. On-line forums are not as private as we might wish.
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I would have intervened in that Colorado theater if I had been able. That may have been a long shot supported by a theater chair but I'd have a good chance at hitting the gunman even at 60 feet.
That would have been an easy decision, gunman shooting people as fast as he could, nobody fighting back.
In a store robbery? Not if it doesn't look like the guy is threatening to shoot someone. If he has his finger in his coat pointed at the teller, I'd let him be. If he is waving a gun around, I'd let him be. If he's threatening to kill someone, pointing at people's heads, and has his finger on the trigger, I pray I can get a steady shot to the head to end the threat.
That's just me. Everyone needs to make their own decision at the time.
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That would have been an easy decision, gunman shooting people as fast as he could, nobody fighting back.
In a store robbery? Not if it doesn't look like the guy is threatening to shoot someone. If he has his finger in his coat pointed at the teller, I'd let him be. If he is waving a gun around, I'd let him be. If he's threatening to kill someone, pointing at people's heads, and has his finger on the trigger, I pray I can get a steady shot to the head to end the threat.
That's just me. Everyone needs to make their own decision at the time.
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That's not just a long shot it's a long shot with a room full of people going bat **** crazy between you and the shooter
Grayfox
US Veteran
We had an incident here a few years ago. A man was beating a woman in a public place. A Good Samaritian tried to intervene. The man AND the woman both beat the would be rescuer within a inch of his life.
Unless you know EXACTLY what's going on, best to stay out of it.
Unless you know EXACTLY what's going on, best to stay out of it.
Poodle Soup
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Apparently he didn't hit the guy hard enough if they BOTH turned on him : p
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
I was on the beach one night long ago (no weapon.. 'cept for a full wine bottle...) and there's this 50's greaser looking guy in the parking lot beating up on his pudgy girlfriend.. I barked at him from about 20 ft (bottle by the neck ..) and he backed up , telling her to get in the car. I said "you get in the car and you're on your own.." She got in the car...
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
One sad reason many women do that is that they are terrified of worse consequences if they don't. And an even sadder one is that the likelihood that they grew up seeing that happen to their mothers and think it's essentially normal. Or that they deserve it.
And yes, many will turn on you if you interfere.
Did you call 911?
I did something this foolish long ago myself. Never again unless I'm armed.
I yelled at a couple fighting and they both turned on me followed by a car load of their friends that showed up less than a minute latter.
Before I knew it I was now getting yelled at and threatened by five people instead of two. I quickly left.
The unknown. The unforeseen. The wildcard will get you hurt or worse.
Protected One
Member
35 years ago I was coming out of a club with my new brother-in-law ,and there was a guy who had his girl pinned against the wall of the club...and beating the snot out of her! I looked at my brother-in-law (who seemed unphased by the whole thing) and the turned to head in their direction. My brother-in-law grabbed me by the back of my shirt and said - "If you get mess with her boyfriend she'll jump on you to defend him".
I turned, and followed him to the car.
I turned, and followed him to the car.
45times6
Member
Carrying makes me both safer and More Careful, in the first place.
In many ways, I think that my decision to carry makes me safer independent of having the firearm. In my opinion, the fact that any "unpleasant" encounter I have while carrying has -- at least in principle -- the possibility of escalating to a use of lethal force, makes me even MORE careful about avoiding that situation in the first place.
I guess I'd put it this way: I don't see my carry permit as giving me license to go into a more dangerous part of town than I would visit if I weren't armed, or to drop down to the "murder mart" for a pack of gum when I'd normally never consider going there... rather, because I know that by carrying I am introducing raising the possibility of being involved in a shooting from a probability of zero to even a very infinitessimally small probability, I make better choices about where I go. However confident I am in my ability to effectively employ a firearm for my self-protection, I still think the best gunfight is the one you never had in the first place.
Another quick illustration of this: without carrying, I might be tempted to return a rude word or gesture to another motorist while behind the wheel; while carrying, though, I make sure I'm even more careful to avoid escalating unpleasant sitations, because the consequences are potentially much greater if they get out of hand.
The flip side of this, of course, is that if I DO find myself in a dangerous situation, carrying is empowering in the sense that I know that it allows me to apply this "bend like a reed" (to use a kung-fu movie cliche) mindset secure in the knowledge that the sidearm gives me another option for defending myself if it comes down to it.
In many ways, I think that my decision to carry makes me safer independent of having the firearm. In my opinion, the fact that any "unpleasant" encounter I have while carrying has -- at least in principle -- the possibility of escalating to a use of lethal force, makes me even MORE careful about avoiding that situation in the first place.
I guess I'd put it this way: I don't see my carry permit as giving me license to go into a more dangerous part of town than I would visit if I weren't armed, or to drop down to the "murder mart" for a pack of gum when I'd normally never consider going there... rather, because I know that by carrying I am introducing raising the possibility of being involved in a shooting from a probability of zero to even a very infinitessimally small probability, I make better choices about where I go. However confident I am in my ability to effectively employ a firearm for my self-protection, I still think the best gunfight is the one you never had in the first place.
Another quick illustration of this: without carrying, I might be tempted to return a rude word or gesture to another motorist while behind the wheel; while carrying, though, I make sure I'm even more careful to avoid escalating unpleasant sitations, because the consequences are potentially much greater if they get out of hand.
The flip side of this, of course, is that if I DO find myself in a dangerous situation, carrying is empowering in the sense that I know that it allows me to apply this "bend like a reed" (to use a kung-fu movie cliche) mindset secure in the knowledge that the sidearm gives me another option for defending myself if it comes down to it.
45times6
Member
Just realized that I went away from the topic in the OP -- sorry for straying, but I hope it might be interesting food for thought, anyway.
When in doubt hit the ground. But then why the gun?
When in doubt jump in! Then call your lawyer!
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I think your longer post was very applicable to the subject at hand, and stated my views better than I've managed to do.
I like the way you think.
sac-gunslinger
Member
One thing I learned when I was wearing a uniform is that "social interactions" can often be far different than they appear. My rule of thumb was that, if I could persuade the apparent attacker to attack me, then use of force would be justified. I stepped into a couple of altercations where the protagonists quickly retreated claiming they were "just playing." Fortunately, no one got hurt and we all had a good laugh (lots of head shaking, but a good laugh).
A friend of mine went to a domestic one night. The wife was a bloody, bruised, beaten mess. The perp had knocked his partner out cold. My friend finally got control of the guy, had him on the floor, only to have the wife do the cast iron frying pan thing across the back of his head. You just never know what the dynamics might be.
Be very careful minding other people's business. A 9-1-1 call, as has been suggested, is often the best step you can take in an event where you do not know what is going on.
A friend of mine went to a domestic one night. The wife was a bloody, bruised, beaten mess. The perp had knocked his partner out cold. My friend finally got control of the guy, had him on the floor, only to have the wife do the cast iron frying pan thing across the back of his head. You just never know what the dynamics might be.
Be very careful minding other people's business. A 9-1-1 call, as has been suggested, is often the best step you can take in an event where you do not know what is going on.
cmort666
Member
No such thing.
But I'd still call, and have, in one case to report domestic violence... several times with the same perpetrator.
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I have two words for you "Pay" "Phone"
Biggfoot44
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No , 45 x 6's commentary was relevent to the topic.
Unless you are LE , Corrections , or providing security services on a contractual basis , you don't have a Responsability to protect anyone not your imeadate family.
As mentioned before , short of an active shooter in progress, there is too much unknown as to what is actually occuring. Could be an undercover/ plainclothes/ off duty LE , could be a Bail Bondsman , could be a Victim momentarily gaining the upper hand on their asailent, could be a kinky couple roleplaying rough sex. And when you intervieene , you place yourself at risk of being percieved as the bad actor by responding LE , or other good samaratins. Well planned bad guys will have confederates planted among the bystanders to deal with resistance.
Never say never , but default plan should be to monitor pending the situation crossing the threashold into active felonous deadly force.
Unless you are LE , Corrections , or providing security services on a contractual basis , you don't have a Responsability to protect anyone not your imeadate family.
As mentioned before , short of an active shooter in progress, there is too much unknown as to what is actually occuring. Could be an undercover/ plainclothes/ off duty LE , could be a Bail Bondsman , could be a Victim momentarily gaining the upper hand on their asailent, could be a kinky couple roleplaying rough sex. And when you intervieene , you place yourself at risk of being percieved as the bad actor by responding LE , or other good samaratins. Well planned bad guys will have confederates planted among the bystanders to deal with resistance.
Never say never , but default plan should be to monitor pending the situation crossing the threashold into active felonous deadly force.
Biggfoot44
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What pay phones ? That's so 10yrs ago . I saw a pay phone last year , and called Biggfootette over to see it , so she's know what they used to be.
