Rethinking your carry choice in light of the riots.

[Protected One]

I read a story about a lady who had a daytime intruder break into her home. She was there with her 3 children and armed with a 5 shot J Frame. He had a knife.

She got into an upstairs closed with her children behind her, and when he came into the room and opened the closet door she emptied the cylinder, hitting him ALL 5 TIMES in the face and neck. The police arrived to find him on her neighbors front lawn, on his knees and begging for help. Some say "she stopped the threat", which is true, but I say she's lucky there weren't more attackers...because usually there are three or more.

That incident confirmed for me why I won't feel comfortable with 5 rounds, and that 38spl is not to be my carry or home defense round.

 

[sigp220.45]

I’d say she did just fine.

I’m not sure where you get the “usually three or more” from, but even if there were more I bet they would be beating feet for calmer pastures.

 

[HardToHandle]

I am seeing reports from the Kenosha riots of rifle-armed “protesters “ confronting the police. Same scenario in Austin, where an Active Duty sergeant shot a protest marcher who point an AK at him.

The new trend in Portland OR is wide scale protests in residential neighborhoods and into the suburbs - well away from the federal courthouse downtown. At the same time, there is Weimar-like fights between protesters on the right and left.

My point is the potential adversaries’ tactics and locations are fluid. Trouble may find you, even if you are trying to avoid it.

 

[bigben55]

Its my belief, that a CCW piece is meant to neutralize a threat or 2. Its not to "win" a gunfight against a carload of gang bangers. Stopping the initial threat "should" give you time to get away.

That said, more rounds is always better. I carry 15+1 of 9mm most times, but 5rds of .38+p other times.

 

[Chief Wiggums]

Kenosha .............
Trouble may find you, even if you are trying to avoid it.

Round 2 is coming....or maybe Round 1 never ended.....

 

[rubiranch]

This video is what made me change my EDC from a 642-1 to my new Shield 45 M2.0

Its on FB.

Geof Brookman - Way to get em B.j. Baldwin. Good on you | Facebook

 

[Mister X]

This video is what made me change my EDC from a 642-1 to my new Shield 45 M2.0

Its on FB.

Geof Brookman - Way to get em B.j. Baldwin. Good on you | Facebook

That’s no doubt an interesting case, but I always try to follow the rule of stupids..., don’t do stupid things at stupid places with stupid people at stupid hours.

Regardless, this is an extreme outlier and consider the potential alternative situations where the 642 would actually provide benefits over the Shield. Is an incident like the one you referenced more likely for you or is a fight at contact or even on the ground more probable? What about all the political and racial unrest...is it more likely you’ll get into an unavoidable long range gunfight or have one or more individuals swarm you and try to physical assault you and stomp you out? What about malfunctions? We see plenty of cases of those in video footage of actual events. Do you actually think you could clear one in the reactive close-quarter environment that defines civilian self-defense?

People like to say revolvers also malfunction(break), but see how many cases you can find of that occurring in actual fights, especially compared with the volume of autoloaders going down.

.45 ACP is more potent than .38 special +P, but not so much to switch platforms and lose the advantages the 642 provides. Extra rounds and a speedy reload? Find me evidence(a sizable number of cases beyond a handful) where that has been necessary and an advantage in civilian self-defense.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Pray for the best...............but prepare for the worst

Preparing for "the average".......... just ain't good enough IMHO!!!!

And please God......... don't let me be the "outlier"

 

[rubiranch]

I never had an interest in semi-autos and a few years back a couple of friends talked me into buying a Glock 36 and it confirmed my dislike for semi-autos. What pile of garbage.

I had an unfired M&P 45 for several years and decided one day to take it out and shoot it. I never cleaned all the factory lube and garbage out of it until after shooting 6-700 rounds thru it without a single jam. That made buying and carrying a Shield easy. Several hundred rounds later still not one single issue.

I didn't get it for the added capacity. My brother was a career LEO. One of my closest friends was on a SWAT team for 15 years and taught SWAT for another 3 years.

I have several other friends that are either current or retired LE.

They all agree that if you get in a gun fight and don't win in the first 3 rounds the odds are you're not going to win.

Out in the country where I live we don't have the rioting and other huge issues that other places in the country are experiencing so I have no worries about being attacked by gangs where multiple rounds might be necessary.

If I only get three chances I'd refer to put big holes into the threat than little holes.

Either gun would suffice. I just chose to carry a 45 instead of my 38.

 

[vipermd]

I started bringing my shockwave with me in the car when I have to drive out of town. It sits on the front seat under a cover. I don't take it when I am doing something local and have to leave the car. Nothing happens in my small town and I always have my Glock with me.

***Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. ... BATFE defines the Mossberg Shockwave as a Firearm and it should be defined as a Firearm on BATFE's Form 4473.

MOSSBERG® 590® SHOCKWAVE® PUMP-ACTION
O.F. Mossberg & Sons | American Built. American Strong. › wp-content › uploads › 2017/05

FYI Be Safe,

 

[Chief Wiggums]

Geof Brookman - Way to get em B.j. Baldwin. Good on you | Facebook

BJ Baldwin is on the cover of this months Concealed Carry magazine, which is provided monthly to USCCA members.
Constant training , a clear mind & a focused situational awareness is why he is alive today. Dude is a man.....

 

[Mister X]

Pray for the best...............but prepare for the worst

Preparing for "the average".......... just ain't good enough IMHO!!!!

And please God......... don't let me be the "outlier"

Sure, but what are you doing?

We see reports of physical assaults and beatings with makeshift weapons on a daily basis. Not ranged gunfights. Are you actually training for that reality or thinking the right gun selection is the answer? Most gun forum members are obviously usually gun centric and only see and focus on one aspect of the issue(often the outliers), but that leaves you woefully unprepared for what you’re likely to encounter.

 

[Ersnipes]

Nothing much has changed,still carry my Glock 43x

 

[NB4EST]

I live in a section of Kentucky's Cumberland Mountains. It's my opinion that various forms of media have never allowed this region to recover from its history of feuds that tainted its reputation in the late 19th/early 20th Centuries. Our terrain and reputation discourage a lot of visitors, rowdy or otherwise.....One group of protestors recently travelled to a little town a few miles north of me and were sent home minus their rallying flag....The road to reach my home is not the "4-Low-only-for-the-last-20-miles" I used to advertise it as being, but I don't expect to encounter much violence on local highways. That said, I still take the advice I read here about avoiding dangerous areas, try to avoid knee-jerk reactions, and still pack any of a few S&W revolvers with reloads. If need of food or other necessity forces me to drive to town, I'll consider throwing my double-stack 1911 .45 on the truck seat.

 

[Jessie]

Sure, but what are you doing?

We see reports of physical assaults and beatings with makeshift weapons on a daily basis. Not ranged gunfights. Are you actually training for that reality or thinking the right gun selection is the answer? Most gun forum members are obviously usually gun centric and only see and focus on one aspect of the issue(often the outliers), but that leaves you woefully unprepared for what you’re likely to encounter.

Many of us are a little too old to be duking it out with a pack of crazies. I’m not going to attend karate classes at this point in life. That’s why we carry guns.
They shouldn’t start fights with elders.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Sure, but what are you doing?

We see reports of physical assaults and beatings with makeshift weapons on a daily basis. Not ranged gunfights. Are you actually training for that reality or thinking the right gun selection is the answer? Most gun forum members are obviously usually gun centric and only see and focus on one aspect of the issue(often the outliers), but that leaves you woefully unprepared for what you’re likely to encounter.

Handgun selection is just one component, I've got 41 years of concealed carry experience and training including by and with law enforcement........ relying on only having 5 or 6 rds and only "needing" the average number of rounds fired..... when faced with mob is not good prior planning IMO.

My first rule is to avoid trouble.................and troubled areas.

At 66 my second rule is to stay out of "fights" with young men half or a third my age.

With 56 years of shooting a handgun my preferred primary is still a S&W revolver..... in my case a 3" model 66...... Ideally in today's environment backed up with a New York reload..... a high cap 9mm.... most likely a Beretta 92 Compact (16) or Centurion (19).

Not long ago I was "training" with some local Sheriff's SAR team members ......

In my quite "Burb of the Burgh"...... my daily attire does not include 2 guns and 69 rounds of ammo..... but I have a plan and the ability to execute.

 

[MetalMan]

As also posted in the "Am I Alone" thread....

With all of the "nonsense" going on around us, I'm considering to move my EDC from J-frames (currently Model 60-15 loaded with Winchester PDX1, 130gr, .38Spl +P) to my Kimber Ultra Carry loaded with 230gr .45ACP Federal Hydra-Shocks.

This allows me to go from 5 rounds to 7+1 for about the same carry weight. Both typically carried IWB in Milt Sparks VMII's.

I gotta tell ya that while I tend to avoid the big cities, these recent "peaceful demonstrations" have got me a bit rattled; especially as some of these are moving to the suburbs.

I'm planning a road trip from OH to CT in the next couple of weeks and, for the first time in a long time, am concerned about carrying enough firepower.

Very sad state of current affairs.....................

 

[Mister X]

Many of us are a little too old to be duking it out with a pack of crazies. I’m not going to attend karate classes at this point in life. That’s why we carry guns.
They shouldn’t start fights with elders.

That’s not what I was advocating for at all.

I see numerous posts on gun forums about someone being too old or disabled to fair well in a H2H fight, so they’ll just avoid it altogether with their superior situational awareness or just shoot their attacker. That’s a nice thought that’s always popular, but it’s not very realistic since you may not have a choice.

Being older or disabled can justify resorting to deadly force in situations where a younger more physically capable individual may not be, but it also makes you a much more appealing target and for valid reasons(you’re obviously less capable of fighting back effectively on multiple levels).

Even if introducing deadly force is warranted, you still have to be able to get to the gun without getting knocked unconscious, beat senseless, bludgeoned or stabbed, you must be able to retain it so they don’t shoot you with your own weapon and you have to reliably get off shots and make effective hits in an environment most never train for or even want to acknowledge occurs.

Age and physical limitations obviously figure into the equation and have to be considered when developing effective tactics and when participating in any training, but ignoring the realities of what can and does happen by just planning on relying on situational awareness or thinking you can simply resort to the ever accessible gun to resolve any problem is short-sighted.

 

[hogblue]

Thinking seriously about trading up to a 1 ton dually with a six inch oil well drill stem front bumper and a steel flat bed with round bale spike. Rem 870 for a back up. Truck will be able to get em coming or going

 

[Jessie]

What makes you think we’re “ignoring the realities“ and just rushing headlong into the OK corral with guns blazing?
It’s short sighted to assume things like that about someone you don’t even know, isn’t it?
You have your plans, I have mine and mine have served me well for a long time.
I hope yours work as well for you.
Stay safe