Revolver "push-off"

[Fessor]

As I understand, push-off is when a cocked revolver hammer can be pushed forward and caused to fall by applying force against the rear of the hammer. I'm looking at a model 14 at my LGS that exhibits this syndrome. The single action is a very light hair trigger and the double action pull is very light weight: so light I doubt it can pop a primer. What is usually the cause of push-off?

I would like to make an offer on the gun but wonder if I will need to replace the trigger and/or hammer or if a new spring kit will likely solve the problem.

 

[deadin]

Push-off is usually a sign of somebody screwing with the sear notch, sear nose or both. (Replacement hammer/trigger may be needed.)
Weak strike is from messing with mainspring, Might need replacement or, if lucky they just either filed off the tension screw or backed it out. Light double action pull probably is a turn or two has been cut off the rebound spring in conjunction with messing with the main spring.
Unless the gun is a real bargain and/or you are comfortable fitting new parts, I don't think I would touch it.

 

[DCWilson]

Push off can occur when there is a worn (= rounded over) contact point between the arm of the trigger and the foot of the hammer. There is a pretty simple fix that you can read about in the FAQs in the Gunsmithing section of this forum. It involves light use -- that's LIGHT use -- of a squared off arkansas (or ceramic) stone.

I have fixed maybe half a dozen revolvers with light to serious push off problems. It takes less than 30 seconds after you get the parts out of the gun.

Is the strain screw tight? Sometimes people back out the strain screw to get a lighter trigger pull, though this is an unapproved use of that screw. If the strain screw is all the way in, possibly somebody replaced the original spring with a lighter one, or (worst case) filed down the original spring to reduce its tension. Or the strain screw may have been shortened so that it would not completely tension the mainspring.

The trigger rebound slide spring may come into play as well, as that spring contributes to the resistance you feel in double action operation. But if the trigger returns completely to its forward position after you release it, the rebound slide spring is probably strong enough.

Oops, used too many words again, and Dean got in while I was still typing. But we are pretty much saying the same thing.

 

[2152hq]

For the hammer to be able to be 'pushed off' from the S/A position, there is either damage, excessive wear, or after market adjustments to the engagement edges of hammer, trigger or both.

With no springs in the gun at all, none,,,gently holding the trigger forward with one thumb while pushing hard on the cocked hammer with the other should not cause the hammer to fall.
It's that positive of an engagement as it is fitted at the factory, but fine enough of an engagement to allow a nice trigger pull as they come from the factory as a rule.

If someone decides the pull is not good enough and they alter the tiny sear notch in the hammer or edge on the trigger in the slightest, it can result in push off.

If that's been done, you can usually bet that other work has been done and you might as well figure a spring set to get you back to the starting point again. The ultra light DA pull and drop is a clue.
Other parts may have been altered in the hope of slicking the action up. It doesn't take much to ruin the angles on the cylinder bolt.

It's a revolver that needs an inspection inside before being bought. It could need a lot of parts and work. Perhaps more than it's worth.

JMHO

 

[Nightowl]

Some guns will experience push off with light springs. Replacing the main spring, or tightening the main spring strain screw will sometimes "fix" the push off. Sometimes the trigger can be stoned to fix the push off. Most times a new hammer or trigger or maybe both will need to be replaced. Finding a new hammer and trigger of the old style may be difficult. You cannot know what will fix the gun until someone who knows how to can give an accurate cost. When purchasing, I think you would have to discount the gun by $150-200 to cover the worst case fix.

 

[HappyHunter]

I would be cautious of a gun that has been identified with push off. Makes me wonder how many time it has been "pushed off".

To check for push off I use a postal or similar scale that will measure 12-15 pounds well. ( I use a refrigeration digital scale)

Place cocked (empty) gun muzzle down onto scale, then zero scale. Now press on hammer until 12 pounds is reached on scale...STOP! If no early push off is encountered gun is safe.

If you want I feel that pushing to 15 pounds is ok, but anything harder is looking to damage the delicate engagement surfaces of gun.

I will be returning two guns to my local gun store today...they where given to me to correct push off. Both did have push off, one was corrected by changing rebound spring as original had 5 coils cut from it, light stoning to recut angle, and cleaning. The other (rust bucked M15) would need new hammer and trigger...Instead it is now a DAO with hammer spur cut off and polished.

It is my opinion that once trigger push off if is "detected" guns can be ruined by demonstrating this phenom to others.

hth
Fred

 

[kwesi]

Update: I handled the gun for a few minutes but did not take it to test fire. It looked in good condition to a newbie. No push-off, cylinder locked up tight, no spin marks. The wood grips are not pristine but not bad either. He had his two initials engraved on the right side.

 

[DWalt]

Another thread arisen from its grave.

 

[kwesi]

My bad! I replied to the wrong thread.

 

[Hondo44]

Update: I handled the gun for a few minutes but did not take it to test fire. It looked in good condition to a newbie. No push-off, cylinder locked up tight, no spin marks. The wood grips are not pristine but not bad either. He had his two initials engraved on the right side.

I got a 44 Spl pre 24 with initials carved in the checkering. I deepened the checkering with a checkering file and you can't tell where they were. But they feel like cokes now.

They were just below the center diamond on this side:

 

[steelslaver]

Nice job on fixing up those stocks. I need to get a checkering file or 2 and start learning.

I check push off using moderate pressure with my thumb. I am sure that if you push hard enough any of them will disengage the hammer and do damage to the sears.

 

[mike campbell]

As mentioned earlier, pushing off can cause further damage. When the hammer is pushed off the hammer block is not retracted and can be broken by the falling hammer.

 

[jrog100]

Fred is right. If a S&W has push off issues, an UNQUALIFIED person has screwed it up. I've never seen push off occur from worn parts, just a hack job trigger screwup. Hard pass on any revolver that has this problem.

I would be cautious of a gun that has been identified with push off. Makes me wonder how many time it has been "pushed off".

To check for push off I use a postal or similar scale that will measure 12-15 pounds well. ( I use a refrigeration digital scale)

Place cocked (empty) gun muzzle down onto scale, then zero scale. Now press on hammer until 12 pounds is reached on scale...STOP! If no early push off is encountered gun is safe.

If you want I feel that pushing to 15 pounds is ok, but anything harder is looking to damage the delicate engagement surfaces of gun.

I will be returning two guns to my local gun store today...they where given to me to correct push off. Both did have push off, one was corrected by changing rebound spring as original had 5 coils cut from it, light stoning to recut angle, and cleaning. The other (rust bucked M15) would need new hammer and trigger...Instead it is now a DAO with hammer spur cut off and polished.

It is my opinion that once trigger push off if is "detected" guns can be ruined by demonstrating this phenom to others.

hth
Fred

 

[quinn]

I had a registered magnum with push off. I took it to a VERY knowledgeable gunsmith who told me that many old school lawmen kept their actions "dry" to prevent dirt accumulation. He said the wear causing the pust off was not uncommon on these guns. Since my gun had served with the FBI, Counter Intelligence Corps, and then county sheriff, I accpted my gunsmith's analysis. He fixed the push off in a couple of hours.

 

[44wheelman]

10 years +...and still going