S&W 625-JM Catastrophic Failure/Accident

mmholum;
First of all, I am glad you made it through this without injury. It is not pleasant to lose a gun but you can make that back (losing a hand or an eye would have been MUCH, MUCH worse!)

I can only speculate. It appears to me that all three cartridges went off (common with a catastrophic accident). It has every appearance of a double charge of fast burning powder.

I have two 550B's and it is possible to have a double charge even with a progressive press with auto advance. I have seen it.

Send those picutures to Smith and they may want to take a look at your ruined revolver. If so, they will pay to have it sent in. Any thing that they offer to do for you will be out of the goodness of their hearts. They are not apt to offer to warrantee this loss (unfortunately).

It should be a reminder to us all, that we need to maintain "eternal vigilance" to avoid a similar mishap. It could happen to any one of us.

Dale53
 
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I think it's and under load not overload.
A double charge is unlikely with the dillon according to a few members. But and under load is possible, a jam or obstruction of the powder and there is just a little powder in the shell.
And an under load is often more dangerous than overload. The ignition is to slow ending in extreme detonation.

The shock wave of such a detonation can cause other powder to ignite to and the problem is complete
 
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I destroyed my 629MG 4.5 yr back with a slow to release bullet. The load was a Magnus 300gr LSWC over 6.2gr Titegroup in a .44 Magnum case yielding 820 fps. The problem was what I had been shooting previously that day - .44 Russians and Specials - 200 of them. The long .44 Magnums had to be shoved into the chambers - I knew better. The physical maximum charge one could put in that case and still seat that long 300gr LSWC was ~10 gr - 11 gr was safe, according to Hodgdon's. 12.4 gr was impossible - I actually tried... but over 10.2 gr started compressing the propellant and offering significant resistance in pulling the lever on my Dillon 550.

In my case, it was late in the day - I was out of Russians and Specials - I had just a box of the subject rounds. The first two determined the drop - the third & fourth shot hit the 16" steel at 110 yd - the fifth one burst the gun - the sixth one was still intact, just squished it's case... I pulled the lead out easily (See photo.). I was blessed - a nick in my safety glass lens and a bloody small spot on my bare left arm were all I had to show for the experience. I found everything but the subject round's primer and a sight screw. It produced no recoil and only a muffled 'Boomff' followed by tinkle tinkle as the parts landed. I had instantly destroyed a $530 revolver only ~1.5 yr old - and which had launched only ~6-7 k rounds - only a few real Magnums - all made on that 550..

KABOOM.jpg


I called S&W. When asked, I told them it had probably shot it's only commercial rounds at their factory. Be honest with them. They sent a pre-paid label - and called me with their findings. The gun was dirty - the big bullet didn't exit fast enough for the fast burning Titegroup and a pressure spike occured, bursting the cylinder and the topstrap. The barrel was fine - and returned to me. The metal was tested - and found not to be a problem. They called me back - said they couldn't replace it - but I was a good customer. They subbed a standard production 4" 629-6 - when one came off the line in two days - for my MG - I was elated - the charge, with overnite s/h, was < half what I had paid for that new MG. The dealer didn't even charge me a xfr fee! I made out - honesty pays. Hodgdon's said that 6.2gr Titegroup behind a stuck bullet would have burst a Ruger, too.

Speaking of burst revolvers, S&W's burst upwards - Rugers go outwards and back.

Stainz

Addendum: As it should, such a catstrophe gives one pause for concern. Certainly, existing homebrew ammo is then all suspect. I dissected over 350 such loads - all fine. Of course, it only takes one. I attempted to make double loads - with no primer for safety. As I said, there was no way over 10.2 gr was going in a .44 Magnum case with that long and deep seating bullet without compression. The OP had something else going on - perhaps a high seated primer - to set off that adjacent round. He was indeed fortunate not to be hurt. Let's all be careful with our reloading - double check our powder drop settings... and always shoot the long cased rounds before the short cased ones... I knew better...
 
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Firstly, you could have seriously hurt. Glad you are OK>

How is this on a theory--you say if you had a double load on the Dillon 550, you would have had to have a round with no powder at all.
Hmm.....could the round before the KB have been the no powder round and that bullethead was lodged in the barrel and your next round was the KB.
That would explain the "missing round" with no powder and also perhaps the bullerhead at your feet.
 
I use Universal Clays for skeet loads in both the 20 ga. and the 28 ga.

I have never had a problem with the powder bridging in the 20 ga. loader, but in the 28 ga., since the drop tube is a little smaller in diameter, it sometimes happens.

I load on MEC Grabbers, progressive loaders, so there is a powder charged dumped with each stroke of the handle, so I have developed the habit of giving the handle a little extra bump when it reaches the top of the stroke just to dislodge any bridged powder in the tube.

Universal is somewhat bulky and fluffy, so it is bad that way.

Do not rule out a double charge, or something on that order, like a 1/2 charge in one cartridge followed be 1-1/2 charge in the next one.
 
I haven't tried it to confirm this, but I believe a charge of 11 gr. of Universal would overrun the case. I load 4.3 gr. of regular Clays in a 550, and it looks like a double would almost overflow the case. In any event, it would be next to impossible to overlook when placing a bullet in the case. Still, anything is possible. One reason, and the only reason I can think of that I'd like to have a 650. Not due to auto index, but rather the fifth station where you can use a powder check.
 
Good to hear no injuries were sustained as a result of this incident. it has some of the appearances of an overcharged case. Personally I have switched to Trail Boss for my revolver loads to hopefully avoid any double charge.
 
congratulations on surviving and thanks for posting. Looking forward to the final call on 'what caused the problem'.

Trail Boss double charges overflow the cases.


Question: Is it at all possible a bullet lodged in the seating die, and was later double loaded into a case?

I use a 650 Dillon the past decade, and despite it's many virtues, does requite due diligence in all phases of operation. Even given that comment, the 650 is far safer IMHO than the 550 I used for 20 years prior to the 650.

please advise on your findings.
 
Thanks for posting. Those photos scare me.

It's not just reloads that can blow you up. I was firing my (new to me)Taurus Tracker in 17hmr yesterday. I was shooting Federal ammo and the round didn't go "BANG!" it was more of a "pfffftt". I looked at my wife and said "that didn't sound right". I swung out the cylinder checked the barrel; blocked!
I'm positive that if my wife had been shooting and that "dud' had been in her gun she would have followed it with another round.
Admittedly the Tracker is way over built for the 17hmr but I'd rather not put it to the test.

Today I'm in search of a 5/32s brass rod.
 
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I really appreciate the thoughts guys. And I can't even explain how happy I am to be here in good health.

I've ruled out barrel obstruction because there was absolutely no barrel damage. I've seen guns with barrel obstructions that get shot. In all of them, there is some sort of evidence whether a barrel bulge or a ring in the barrel where the obstruction was. Borescope showed a clean bore with almost no fouling (30rds thru the gun since cleaning).

Right now, I'm kind of leaning towards the "detonation" explanation or a distraction at the press and I pulled the handle twice. But on the same note, when I tried to recreate the double charge (without a primer and taking significant safety precautions) my press wouldn't seat the bullet I was using. Even when I put some elbow grease into seating the bullet it still was significantly underseated. Wouldn't even come close to fitting in the cylinder. That kind of puts me leaning more towards the detonation explanation. Could have also been something crazy like a charge-and-a-half from the dillon, but it would certainly be a chance encounter - but thats really all it takes, one chance.

I will probably be calling S&W tomorrow and talk with them. They will probably want the last say on what really happened. All of the help I have received here has helped immensely. I feel much better at carrying on an intelligent conversation with them.

On a side note, I had an offer last night for a guy to buy it from me (local friend) so he can use it in his firearms safety courses that he teaches. Seems like a fitting retirement for the gun if Smith can't do anything for me.

Really appreciate the information and experiences from everybody here. :)
 
Glad you are OK. I don't know if I would rule out a scrib load on the previous round fired. You mentioned that the bullet found at your feet had a cut. It seems possible to me that if the previous bullet lodged in the barrel the next bullet would have hit it causing the cut. All of the pressure went upward and then disipated enough that it would not bulge the barrel but still have enough pressure to push both bullets out. Do you have any pic's of the bullet?

Just a thought. Regards.
 
Not sure what caused that but I'd pretty much rule out brass. I've seen magnum brass split the entire length of the case on several occasions during the last 40 years and never had a gun come apart like that. Glad you're ok, that would be a real scare! Talk to Smith and tell them what happened. I'd even ask them if they'd like the gun for examination but you may be right about warranty work(although I don't think they'll hang up!).
 
I called S&W today, after being transferred a few times, I talked to a gentleman who was very interested in more information about what happened. They wanted the gun shipped to them immediately and emailed me a prepaid packing slip. He even asked me if I had taken any photos of what happened or shared with anyone about my experience. I was honest the whole way through. He told me they would take a look at it and it may take a while, but they will get back to me with what they thought happened. Now we wait...
 
Have seen such damage, in an N frame; but it resulted from 3 simultaneous discharges of sub-standard, store-bought ammo. Glad you kept your digits.
 
Glad your ok, I use a high volume powder so if I would pull the handle 2 times with out indexing the powder spills out the top of the case makes a mess, but thats better then a blown up gun! HERCO works good in 45,10mm,38special. Using a powder like win231 in a 38 special case if its a light load you can triple charge it and no powder will come out of top of case.
 
The most probable cause of a double charge with a 550B is when the press is being set up for a new powder charge. It is easy to make a mistake at this time.

After the press is up and running, you are not apt to fail to advance the cartridge. It is before a rhythm is established when the failure to advance would be most likely to happen (allowing a double charge).

MMhoium;
Don't let this accident discourage you from reloading for your revolvers. I am SURE that you will be more vigilant in the future (as, hopefully, we all will)!

Good luck and keep us posted...

FWIW
Dale53
 
Blue Box said:
Glad your ok, I use a high volume powder so if I would pull the handle 2 times with out indexing the powder spills out the top of the case makes a mess, but thats better then a blown up gun! HERCO works good in 45,10mm,38special. Using a powder like win231 in a 38 special case if its a light load you can triple charge it and no powder will come out of top of case.
Click to expand...

The .38 Special and .357 are the ones that really worry me. A .45 I can see the powder level in when placing the bullet prior to seating. Same goes for 9mm, .40, and to a lesser degree 10mm. .38's and .357's are very difficult to see into and will EASILY accept a double or triple charge.:mad: Of course you've still got to make a conscious effort to look each time you place a bullet. Advancing the shell plate on a 550 is an automatic response to me, having loaded tens of thousands of rounds on one. The potential for mishap is when something happens like a primer doesn't seat properly. I have to stop and remove the already charged case from the shellplate prior to cycling the handle again or a double charge will obviously occur.:eek: Someone over on the Brian Enos forum was working on some sort of electronic powder check for the 550 a few years ago and had a working prototype as I recall. Anyone ever hear anything about this?
 
mmhoium said:
On a side note, I had an offer last night for a guy to buy it from me (local friend) so he can use it in his firearms safety courses that he teaches. Seems like a fitting retirement for the gun if Smith can't do anything for me.
Click to expand...

Or you could bring it back to life. The frame, rear sight and cylinder are gone, but the rest of the gun (barrel, sideplate, grips, lockwork) may be usable. The barrel would be a great start on a project gun, or you could part them out. A complete 5" M-625 barrel group should bring $100 or so. I've never seen a stainless N-frame sideplate for sale, so I don't know what it would bring. The complete lockwork is probably worth another $100, and the grips would likely fetch $50.

After all, it's not like you're messing up a pristine collector's item at this point...


Okie John
 
Sorry to see Your beautiful revolver destroyed.
Grateful to hear that You were not injured.

FWIW: every gun detonation (long bbl or short) which I've heard about, was firing cartridges loaded on a progressive machine.

After viewing several destroyed revolvers, I've kept My Rockchucker press, and have continued loading the old fashioned way, albeit slower, though I feel much safer.
 
Its either a double charge or you were using a faster burning powder prior to set up and some was still left in the powder measure.
 
MakeMyNight said:
Sorry to see Your beautiful revolver destroyed.
Grateful to hear that You were not injured.

FWIW: every gun detonation (long bbl or short) which I've heard about, was firing cartridges loaded on a progressive machine.

After viewing several destroyed revolvers, I've kept My Rockchucker press, and have continued loading the old fashioned way, albeit slower, though I feel much safer.
Click to expand...
You make a very good point. There is no substitute for being able to look down in a loading block of charged cases and visually checking that each one has one, and only one, charge of powder in it.

I started on an RCBS Junior, still have it, and may go back to it. Seeing things like this gives me the heebie jeebies, especially since I've had a near miss myself.
 
I was just thinking about getting a progressive reloader(550b),I agree most double charge.i.e.blown up guns have been reloads from a progressive reloader.Something about "Progressive" that gives you more than you bargained for.It looks to be a over pressure load to do that to any gun.
 
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