S&W declined to fix my 5906.

T

Trebor Snave

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Background: My father picked up a used 5906, first year production. He decided to give it to me (like I need another 9mm) so hey! new gun!

Everything looked good until I put it on safe and thought, "That's odd. Isn't that supposed to decock the hammer?" As a safety it's great. As a decocking lever, not so much. So I got in touch with S&W and sent the gun in for repair.

After 10 weeks in the que, I got a call. "Yeah, we can't fix it. The frame rails are too worn." Seriously. What do the frame rails have to do with the decocking function? It's a steel gun, how many rounds has this thing seen?

They gave me the choice of sending the gun home or a discount on a currently manufactured handgun. I should get it back today. I'm kind of at a loss what to do with it. I don't mind shooting it or even keeping it in the truck since I know what its issues are, but I have other guns that fulfill those roles and I'm not a big fan of the third gen autos anyway. I really hesitate to gift it to one of the kids, which was the original plan. I hesitate to sell it in not-perfect condition even though it's functional. Does anyone else besides S&W work on these guns? Is it even worth my time and effort to get it fixed?

Sigh.
 
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As a big 3rd Gen fan, when I read what you wrote I was confused. Then I realized that at no time do I ever put a 3rd Gen "on safe". I load them, rack the slide, decock, set to fire (after dropping the magazine and adding back one round). I treat them like revolvers - no safety needed. However, if your decocker is not working, which is weird, I can only recommend a local gunsmith in Dallas. If you don't mind shipping it back and forth send me a PM and I'll hook you up.
 
Okay, I don't wanna sound like a know-it-all jerk because I'm only half of that (heh) but it is my opinion that there is a collection of people who know about as little about 3rd Gens as any collection of people in the industry and they work at S&W currently.

I'm not saying there is nobody at S&W that knows a 3rd Gen. I'm saying that there are a slew of people working there that don't know their butt from a hole in the ground and I would love to see someone else look at this 5906 and agree that it is "worn out."

S&W has shown us plenty of times that it's a lottery when you deal with them -- some folks there are far better than others.

Wish I could help you with your specific problem, I'm sure some fine advice will show up right here and doing the work won't be tough. But call me very skeptical that your pistol is "worn out."

My money is on the side of "whoever made that assessment is a tool that assembles tupperware guns and scrubs the tables in the break room."
 
Just for the heck of it disassemble the slide and then reassemble after cleaning and lubing the parts.

It could have been put back together wrong by the previous owner or needs a good cleaning.

BTW,have you fired the gun as is before sending it off?

If yes,did it function correctly?

Another option is a complete slide off ebay for parts.
 
Trebor Snave said:
Background: !

Everything looked good until I put it on safe and thought, "That's odd. Isn't that supposed to decock the hammer?" As a safety it's great. As a decocking lever, not so much. So I got in touch with S&W and sent the gun in for repair.

After 10 weeks in the que, I got a call. "Yeah, we can't fix it. The frame rails are too worn." Seriously. What do the frame rails have to do with the decocking function? It's a steel gun, how many rounds has this thing seen?


Sigh.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the sear release lever is worn out. Corrective action for the condition you describe is fitment of a new sear release lever. This is a part that requires precise fitting and gauging to assure proper timing of the decock function.

I can kinda see the rationale behind what they told you. You see the sear release lever is frame mounted, pivots on the hammer pin in fact. The sear release lever is pressed downward by the manual safety lever that's slide mounted of course. It stands to reason if the frame/slide is worn to such extent that permits the slide to lift upward off the frame thereby increasing the distance between the lever and the safety, I can foresee a condition where the safety can't press downward far enough to release the sear and lower the hammer.

I would fit a new replacement sear release lever and see if that doesn't correct the issue. Note: this is something best performed by someone knowledgeable of 3rd gen guts.

BTW, Brownells has the levers SMITH & WESSON SEAR RELEASE LEVER | Brownells

Cheers
Bill
 
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BMCM explained a possible problem that could be involved.

My personal thoughts? At a guess? Having been trained as a S&W armorer for the 3rd gen's?

The "decocking timing" must fall within a specific range in order to occur safely and properly.

The sear release lever, being located in the frame (as BMCM described), has to be lowered the proper amount, in the proper "timing". This occurs by it "indexing" against the corresponding surface (above it) of the manual safety assembly's cylindrical body, as the safety assembly is rotated (which occurs by depressing the lever, or levers, if it's ambi).

This tolerance/spec range for normal engagement between the sear release lever & manual safety/decocker assembly takes into account the expected tolerance between the frame & slide rails, meaning the allowable amount of minor movement between them.

Now, if the frame rails have been excessive worn, that can create problems. Since it's a used gun, you have no way to know how much use it's seen ... or ... whether a previous owner my have deliberately did something to it which affected frame rail condition, like "hand-lapping or polishing" the frame rails. (One of those do-it-yourself ways to create problems with an otherwise good gun, and which was seemingly way too popular many years ago.)

Now, while I've not personally seen a steel-framed 3rd gen which had developed excessive frame/slide rail tolerance issues, I have seen an early production aluminum-framed 5904, which had been used HARD, but without sufficient lubrication (it was bone dry when brought in for "problems"). The rear set of frame rails had become so worn down that the gun developed excessive slide movement and functioning issues. So many years have passed that I can't remember if decocking timing & function was one of them, though. It was an issued weapon, so it was just considered "toast" and pulled from service. (Other users got a strict reminder to properly maintain lubrication.)

FWIW, the standard 3rd gen frame rails, sometimes called "stepped" rails, were smaller and less thick than the later TSW "box-type" rails. Those original standard rails could sometimes be "more generous" in the amount of movement possible in any particular gun compared to the thicker TSW rails, which provided for "tighter" fit between the frame/slide rails.

If the 5906 frame (and maybe slide?) rails have become too worn (for whatever reason), it may no longer be possible to fit a sear release lever so that the decocking timing can be kept within the necessary spec range.

If it were me, and my gun, as a S&W 3rd gen armorer I'd have taken them up on the offer of keeping the gun and giving me a discount on another, like a M&P or a SW1911. There are still other 3rd gen's out there you could find to pass down in the family.
 
StakeOut said:
Just for the heck of it disassemble the slide and then reassemble after cleaning and lubing the parts.

It could have been put back together wrong by the previous owner or needs a good cleaning.
Click to expand...

I would do this first, before moving on to sending it to a gunsmith. I have seen firearms that were so dirty internally that it affected the actual physical movement of safety/fire control components. I always try fixing the easy stuff first, some times it does the trick. If it is still not working, no harm, no foul. You have only lost some time.
 
Trebor Snave said:
They were going to let me have an M&P for $405. Looks like MSRP for those is $599, so not quite $200 off. Maybe that would have been a good deal; I dunno.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound very good, look up the price on Gallery of Guns, and see what a M&P goes for. I am finding $480 to 500 in my area. They are giving you about 80 dollars for your gun. You probably could sell it for parts for twice that.

If the gun can't be repaired you could also get a $200 gift card next time the local police do a buy back.
 
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5Wire said:
Some Gen 3s. 59XX was one. I just spoke with 'Dave' last Monday. Parts inventories insufficient.
Click to expand...
Probably why S&W CS wanted to keep it and give the OP a trivial amount off a cheap plastic wonder gun... to get their hands on some nifty used 5906 parts. ;)
 
Walkingwolf said:
If the gun can't be repaired you could also get a $200 gift card next time the local police do a buy back.
Click to expand...
Trebor Snave said:
"Gun buyback"? What foreign language are you speaking? They don't do those around here; one of the MANY reasons I live where I do.
Click to expand...
Ha!!! :D Here in the People's Republic, specifically in the Boston area, it is very hard to find a working handgun for sale for less than $200 anywhere. Why? :confused: Because the anti's & cops will pay you $200 in gift cards on the spot for any old piece of questionable junk you bring them. :eek: So why bother with the time, hassle and expense of selling? :rolleyes:

I've been tempted myself on a couple worthless, unwanted cheapies I own... but so far I've chilled. :cool:
 
Look at it the same as a used car.

If it costs too much to fix, then buy another used car.

I'd see if someone could fix it, or fix it yourself, but the price of a used 5906 around here is $400. I wouldn't pour much money into it, since you could just buy another used one, and sell the parts to recoup some of that cost.

Knowing me, I'd probably buy another used 5906, and keep the parts as spares for it.
 
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Detail strip the pistol, clean, inspect for missing or incorrectly installed or altered parts. Take corrective action.
Worse case scenario, one has a cocked and blocked single action pistol that can be manually decocked (be very careful) to be carried as a DA/SA pistol.
 
gman51 said:
I am wondering is this an example of how S&W will handle lifetime warranties?
Click to expand...
I think the bigger question is what would it take for S&W to start honoring their lifetime extended service policy again on 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen pistols? :confused: Would it really be that terrible to run a few batches of critical spare parts? :confused:

I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it would be a terrible thing for their bottom line. :confused:
 
Ross3914 said:
I'd see if someone could fix it, or fix it yourself, but the price of a used 5906 around here is $400. I wouldn't pour much money into it, since you could just buy another used one, and sell the parts to recoup some of that cost.

Knowing me, I'd probably buy another used 5906, and keep the parts as spares for it.
Click to expand...
If truly unfixable, it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to part it out depending on what the OP's father paid for that gun. :cool:
 
99% of the posters here are more 3rd-Gen savvy than me ... but, in addition to the comments about dis-assembly, cleaning and lubing - I would be tempted to see if the sear release lever actually trips the sear. Pull the slide off and cock the hammer, then pressing on the lever (arrow) should decock the hammer. I used a 6906 for the photo so I cushioned the hammer-fall against the aluminum frame. One potential problem is someone used a mallet to put the slide back on the frame - not realizing that all three levers have to be depressed for the slide to go on smoothly. I bet the sear release lever is buggered up or damaged from improper assembly. As already posted, and linked, it's a cheap part from Brownell's. Just sayin'

kRnf8dE.jpg


This may have already been mentioned - I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer
rolleyes.gif
I didn't mention the safety barrel (which depresses the sear release lever when the safety is pressed) since it is a much more robust part than the sear release lever. If the sear release lever is fine - then that leaves - as mentioned above - the possibility that the slide has too much vertical play at the rear when fully in battery ... making it a parts gun I guess.
 
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gman51 said:
II am wondering is this an example of how S&W will handle lifetime warranties?
Click to expand...

Here's a quote from the S&W website:

Lifetime Service Policy

We will repair any defect in material or workmanship without charge to the original purchaser for as long as you own the handgun.
Click to expand...

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I note that the warranty covers defects in material or workmanship. In pretty much any warranty you look at, normal wear isn't considered being a defect, which will rule out many claims. In the case of true material defect in a discontinued model, S&W may offer a suitable replacement, but again, it has to be a defect in material or workmanship. For example, in the case of a revolver, timing issues would most likely fall under normal wear, where as a broken hand would most likely be considered covered under material defect (ruling out Saturday night gunsmithing or other misuse).

As an aside, one advantage to today's machining methods is the ability to store the manufacturing of parts digitally, so it wouldn't be far fetched to see S&W store these for future use, should an out dated part be needed. They could even do this for MIM parts, so that 50 years from now, someone returns a post lock gun for repairs, they could feed the cutting path into a machine and cut a replacement part in a short period of time. Or, more and more likely, print one. And people thought MIM was bad, wait until they start printing parts! :p:eek:
 
Tom S:

I believe you are correct about the warranty not covering wear and tear on the pistol. I addition, it seems the problem that many run into is the "original owner" part. It seems when S&W doesn't want to work on a pistol, they fall back on that provision. In fact, the OP in this thread is not the original owner of the pistol.

Between 2007 and 2008, at the height of 3rd Gen buying craze, I called S&W Customer Service a couple of times (a 6904 and a 4576 frame decocker) to request a "call tag" to send in a 3rd Gen for work. They didn't ask, and I did not tell them I wasn't the original owner of the pistol. However, I always started the call by saying something along the lines of, "I'm having this problem with my pistol that I've never notice in all the time I've owned it." I would then describe the problem and then say, "Can you guys help me? I've always loved Smiths and I really like 3rd Gen autos." By the way, all those statements were true.

Now this was back in 07 and 08 when the factory had a lot of parts and there were still a fair number of guys there who were pretty familiar with 3rd Gen pistols. In fact, since the "techs" would frequently answer the CS phones when I called in to order extra parts (side plates, recoil spring guides, trigger play springs, rivets, various springs, levers, etc.), I would often get some great tips for working on my pistols.

IIRC a few years back a member of this forum who was the original owner of a 3rd Gen that could not be repaired by S&W was offered a new pistol, I thing it was an M&P. But that was then and this is now. So, who knows.

Just my $ .02
 
Tom S. said:
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I note that the warranty covers defects in material or workmanship. In pretty much any warranty you look at, normal wear isn't considered being a defect, which will rule out many claims. In the case of true material defect in a discontinued model, S&W may offer a suitable replacement, but again, it has to be a defect in material or workmanship.
Click to expand...

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. :)
 
I hope I'm not thread jacking, but I just bought a seldom fired 4013TSW pre-rail and the first thing I noticed was it didn't decock. I put it in the safe and just remembered it reading this.

Was it ever a feature to not decock? Or is every third gen supposed to? I own less than a dozen third gens so I'm no expert.
 
Lost Lake said:
I hope I'm not thread jacking, but I just bought a seldom fired 4013TSW pre-rail and the first thing I noticed was it didn't decock. I put it in the safe and just remembered it reading this.

Was it ever a feature to not decock? Or is every third gen supposed to? I own less than a dozen third gens so I'm no expert.
Click to expand...


Makes me wonder which models did and didn't decock...
Some MFR's mixed and matched...some did & some didn't.

Use the old safety test, go to your favorite range...
load normally...put safety ON and try to fire it...
if it goes BANG like a Lorcin/Raven would often do,
that's a problem. If it doesn't fire, no problem ;)

Then try to push the safety past the safe click...
if it decocks, cool, if there is no movement,
probably isn't a decock version...
if there is a little movement past safe, and it
won't decock, disassemble, clean it and try again.
 
Lost Lake said:
I hope I'm not thread jacking, but I just bought a seldom fired 4013TSW pre-rail and the first thing I noticed was it didn't decock. I put it in the safe and just remembered it reading this.

Was it ever a feature to not decock? Or is every third gen supposed to? I own less than a dozen third gens so I'm no expert.
Click to expand...

The Super 9 did not decock, but I'm pretty sure all other non-PC models did.

S9-CnL.jpg
 
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