If truly unfixable, it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to part it out depending on what the OP's father paid for that gun.
S&W declined to fix my 5906.
- Thread starter Trebor Snave
- Start date
99% of the posters here are more 3rd-Gen savvy than me ... but, in addition to the comments about dis-assembly, cleaning and lubing - I would be tempted to see if the sear release lever actually trips the sear. Pull the slide off and cock the hammer, then pressing on the lever (arrow) should decock the hammer. I used a 6906 for the photo so I cushioned the hammer-fall against the aluminum frame. One potential problem is someone used a mallet to put the slide back on the frame - not realizing that all three levers have to be depressed for the slide to go on smoothly. I bet the sear release lever is buggered up or damaged from improper assembly. As already posted, and linked, it's a cheap part from Brownell's. Just sayin'
This may have already been mentioned - I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer
I didn't mention the safety barrel (which depresses the sear release lever when the safety is pressed) since it is a much more robust part than the sear release lever. If the sear release lever is fine - then that leaves - as mentioned above - the possibility that the slide has too much vertical play at the rear when fully in battery ... making it a parts gun I guess.
This may have already been mentioned - I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer
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Here's a quote from the S&W website:
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I note that the warranty covers defects in material or workmanship. In pretty much any warranty you look at, normal wear isn't considered being a defect, which will rule out many claims. In the case of true material defect in a discontinued model, S&W may offer a suitable replacement, but again, it has to be a defect in material or workmanship. For example, in the case of a revolver, timing issues would most likely fall under normal wear, where as a broken hand would most likely be considered covered under material defect (ruling out Saturday night gunsmithing or other misuse).
As an aside, one advantage to today's machining methods is the ability to store the manufacturing of parts digitally, so it wouldn't be far fetched to see S&W store these for future use, should an out dated part be needed. They could even do this for MIM parts, so that 50 years from now, someone returns a post lock gun for repairs, they could feed the cutting path into a machine and cut a replacement part in a short period of time. Or, more and more likely, print one. And people thought MIM was bad, wait until they start printing parts!
Denver Dick
US Veteran
Tom S:
I believe you are correct about the warranty not covering wear and tear on the pistol. I addition, it seems the problem that many run into is the "original owner" part. It seems when S&W doesn't want to work on a pistol, they fall back on that provision. In fact, the OP in this thread is not the original owner of the pistol.
Between 2007 and 2008, at the height of 3rd Gen buying craze, I called S&W Customer Service a couple of times (a 6904 and a 4576 frame decocker) to request a "call tag" to send in a 3rd Gen for work. They didn't ask, and I did not tell them I wasn't the original owner of the pistol. However, I always started the call by saying something along the lines of, "I'm having this problem with my pistol that I've never notice in all the time I've owned it." I would then describe the problem and then say, "Can you guys help me? I've always loved Smiths and I really like 3rd Gen autos." By the way, all those statements were true.
Now this was back in 07 and 08 when the factory had a lot of parts and there were still a fair number of guys there who were pretty familiar with 3rd Gen pistols. In fact, since the "techs" would frequently answer the CS phones when I called in to order extra parts (side plates, recoil spring guides, trigger play springs, rivets, various springs, levers, etc.), I would often get some great tips for working on my pistols.
IIRC a few years back a member of this forum who was the original owner of a 3rd Gen that could not be repaired by S&W was offered a new pistol, I thing it was an M&P. But that was then and this is now. So, who knows.
Just my $ .02
I believe you are correct about the warranty not covering wear and tear on the pistol. I addition, it seems the problem that many run into is the "original owner" part. It seems when S&W doesn't want to work on a pistol, they fall back on that provision. In fact, the OP in this thread is not the original owner of the pistol.
Between 2007 and 2008, at the height of 3rd Gen buying craze, I called S&W Customer Service a couple of times (a 6904 and a 4576 frame decocker) to request a "call tag" to send in a 3rd Gen for work. They didn't ask, and I did not tell them I wasn't the original owner of the pistol. However, I always started the call by saying something along the lines of, "I'm having this problem with my pistol that I've never notice in all the time I've owned it." I would then describe the problem and then say, "Can you guys help me? I've always loved Smiths and I really like 3rd Gen autos." By the way, all those statements were true.
Now this was back in 07 and 08 when the factory had a lot of parts and there were still a fair number of guys there who were pretty familiar with 3rd Gen pistols. In fact, since the "techs" would frequently answer the CS phones when I called in to order extra parts (side plates, recoil spring guides, trigger play springs, rivets, various springs, levers, etc.), I would often get some great tips for working on my pistols.
IIRC a few years back a member of this forum who was the original owner of a 3rd Gen that could not be repaired by S&W was offered a new pistol, I thing it was an M&P. But that was then and this is now. So, who knows.
Just my $ .02
I hope I'm not thread jacking, but I just bought a seldom fired 4013TSW pre-rail and the first thing I noticed was it didn't decock. I put it in the safe and just remembered it reading this.
Was it ever a feature to not decock? Or is every third gen supposed to? I own less than a dozen third gens so I'm no expert.
Was it ever a feature to not decock? Or is every third gen supposed to? I own less than a dozen third gens so I'm no expert.
Big Shrek
Member
Makes me wonder which models did and didn't decock...
Some MFR's mixed and matched...some did & some didn't.
Use the old safety test, go to your favorite range...
load normally...put safety ON and try to fire it...
if it goes BANG like a Lorcin/Raven would often do,
that's a problem. If it doesn't fire, no problem
Then try to push the safety past the safe click...
if it decocks, cool, if there is no movement,
probably isn't a decock version...
if there is a little movement past safe, and it
won't decock, disassemble, clean it and try again.
skjos
Member
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The Super 9 did not decock, but I'm pretty sure all other non-PC models did.
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Same for the 845 Limited. The de-cocking lever is just a blocker. Pushing it down does not "drop" the hammer. The hammer can still be "released" by the trigger but it's blocked from hitting the firing pin, when it's down. It's also capable of being fired without a magazine inserted.
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PC 845 Limited
(-07a)
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Just for clarity, S&W never had a lifetime service policy on 1st & 2nd Gen pistols, this policy was rolled out in around 1989 IIRC.I think the bigger question is what would it take for S&W to start honoring their lifetime extended service policy again on 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen pistols?Would it really be that terrible to run a few batches of critical spare parts?
I don't know the answer to that. Maybe it would be a terrible thing for their bottom line.
As for "a few batches of critical parts", I certainly doubt it is that is the case. Many small parts were likely provided by contract from an outside supplier and while we obviously love these guns (and we always will) it isn't realistic for any gunmaker to keep parts on hand for guns that have been off the market for more than a decade.
We can split hairs about exactly how long they have been off the market, but at least we're in this together.
patjmc
Member
I vote for trying a new sear release lever. They cost less than $4.
kbm6893
Member
I agree. **** of a deal. Who cares what MSRP is? Real price for an M&P is no higher than 450 near me. I'd tell them to send it back. Keep it for a plinker.
Yep S&W said they were no longer going to make parts for the Gen 3 guns. My bet is some of the more popular parts will be picked up by some company but only time will tell.
I can't blame S&W, those guns haven't been made for a long time, there's limits to what a company can do on older guns
Correct, of course.
Sorry for the generalization. But as a practical matter, the "policy" seems to have always existed internally if not been out there in print as a marketing strategy.Respectfully, I've got to question the outside supplier thing as a valid excuse. We know it did apply to plastic parts and to magazines at times... maybe even to springs in general too. But to other internal pistol parts?
That I would find hard to believe in the time frame we are talking about. Yeah, some of S&W's "swap-for-new" deals and discount deals have been pretty unimpressive.
Right now in my area, pre-M2.0 M&P's can be had for chump change. Slightly used ones are nearly being given away.
Until a few years ago, the polymer frames of the M&P guns were made by a sub contractor in CT. S&W bought the company, so now they are made by S&W employees, but at the same facility.
We know that S&W contracted out production of magazines.
They made most of the parts themselves, but no doubt they also had small parts made by outside vendors.
We know that S&W contracted out production of magazines.
They made most of the parts themselves, but no doubt they also had small parts made by outside vendors.
Respectfully, I've got to question the outside supplier thing as a valid excuse. We know it did apply to plastic parts and to magazines at times... maybe even to springs in general too. But to other internal pistol parts?
I can't imagine there are many industries covering all aspects of mass-produced products that don't use outside part vendors and manufacturers for small parts that are used for their product.
For one company to build a machine that uses literally dozens of parts... to also build each of the small parts in-house? That's very nearly the most expensive way to build any product, and especially a small machine that uses dozens of small parts.
For one company to build a machine that uses literally dozens of parts... to also build each of the small parts in-house? That's very nearly the most expensive way to build any product, and especially a small machine that uses dozens of small parts.
The last time I was lucky enough to take a tour of the S&W factory (2012), we walked by some bins filled with forgings that they had made for other companies. One was an engine cover of some sort that had "HD" on the end. As in Harley Davidson. There were also several bins with what looked like plumbing elbows waiting for final machining. I never heard who they were for, but they were definitely not gun parts.
The guide explained to us that S&W took on contract work do keep the machines running even when there were no guns to be made. Of course that was before Newtown, so I imagine afterwards they had no problem keeping the machines busy.
Two things that I've subsequently heard that I can't confirm, but sort of make sense.
First, that at one time S&W forged 1911 frames for Kimber.
Second, that S&W doesn't forge their own AR lowers. I know that a lot of smaller volume custom AR manufacturers by the raw forgings and then do the finish work themselves. I have two ARs that I built using lowers that were finished by a small shop in Maine. The owner told me that he bought the raw forgings from a company in the mid west that made them for a lot of other companies.
I have no problem imagining that S&W buys all of their springs from a company that specializes in making springs. They may well get a lot of internal small parts from companies that specialize in stamping out small metal parts.
The guide explained to us that S&W took on contract work do keep the machines running even when there were no guns to be made. Of course that was before Newtown, so I imagine afterwards they had no problem keeping the machines busy.
Two things that I've subsequently heard that I can't confirm, but sort of make sense.
First, that at one time S&W forged 1911 frames for Kimber.
Second, that S&W doesn't forge their own AR lowers. I know that a lot of smaller volume custom AR manufacturers by the raw forgings and then do the finish work themselves. I have two ARs that I built using lowers that were finished by a small shop in Maine. The owner told me that he bought the raw forgings from a company in the mid west that made them for a lot of other companies.
I have no problem imagining that S&W buys all of their springs from a company that specializes in making springs. They may well get a lot of internal small parts from companies that specialize in stamping out small metal parts.
