s&w model 39

[model3sw]

I know nyc laws are different than the rest of nys, when i left the pd i was required to have a nys pistol permit to carry a handgun,,im not even sure where the heck you would take a firearm to get x-rayed, i guess more research is needed on my end,

Ed Cornett (opoefc) is a retired LEO and retired Gunsmith to the movie stars of Hollywood going back to the 1950s. Ed is precisely on point, if you really want to know. To me, the features, as shown, disqualify that it could have possibly been an original SN: 25 which I think is what you're trying to verify. If you need proof, one way or the other, this is the way to go. The other way is to chemically strip the finish, which you wouldn't want to do unless absolutely necessary.

I had thought to suggest the same type test (radiography or x-ray) but didn't think it was a solution you'd consider although the results will be conclusive and irrefutable.

A metallurgist will be able to answer that question of who could do it if he cannot. I work with a metallurgy lab in Davie, Florida. He tests automotive, aircraft and marine components for causation in component failure cases.

Naturally, I research auto components for causation on metal component failure cases but will work just as well on firearms. In Neal & Jinks (IIRC) there were a slew of "radiograph" images (x-rays) of S&Ws. Check for a accredited metallurgist near you.

 

[model3sw]

X-ray the gun? Where do you x-ray your guns. I need a source for this service.

Mike, not too far from you: QC Metallurgy in Davie, Florida. Tell them I sent you and they will charge you double.

 

[kharmakid]

M39

Actually the thought of it being the original number did cross my mind,but was quickly dispelled as info began pouring in,,my thoughts then turned to that of a presentation piece given for service, the trooper spent 20 years in service with a 10 years as a senior firearms instructor,after that he was the president of the nysp historical division as well as a judge for a great many years,,i was of the opinion it was a custom numbered pistol,he was very well regarded in our community,,hence the interest in this pistol

 

[model3sw]

Actually the thought of it being the original number did cross my mind,but was quickly dispelled as info began pouring in,,my thoughts then turned to that of a presentation piece given for service, the trooper spent 20 years in service with a 10 years as a senior firearms instructor,after that he was the president of the nysp historical division as well as a judge for a great many years,,i was of the opinion it was a custom numbered pistol,he was very well regarded in our community,,hence the interest in this pistol

I'm of the educated opinion that it has been modified or customized seemingly only for the serial number as nothing else is unusual nor exotic, except his name engraved in the side. This was a gun he loved, I would think.

As it seems he was a revered local celebrity status LEO and judge the value in excess of a standard MODEL 39 would be to those who collect such items and likely worth more in that local area, but, still needs to be verified of "what" it is. To others, this would be a detraction form the standard value of an equal condition MODEL 39.

I don't feel this is work of S&W factory quality but you never know, it might be ! I don't think the letter from S&W will reveal anything monumental unless the work was done at S&W and would likely be sometime in the late 1960s or more recent (I think). This feels like a local quality gunsmith or more likely the PD armorer, may have modified this one.

What I can say, conclusively, it is not one of the fabled "missing links" of the pre-release serial numbers that were lower than the first commercial release of Serial Number: 1001.

The only few examples of those are X prefix, with 3 digits, on a variety of frame revisions (one, owned by Richard McMillan with a side access plate) but ALL without model number and all with the short duck tail frames.

I don't think it would be a difficult to have the frame X-Ray-ed. Find an accredited Metallurgist near you, ask him what he charges and ask him to do a few focal ranges, if possible, the first focused on the serial number area.

PS: Just give the metallurgist the frame only, with the stocks removed. Keep the complete slide assembly, slide stop and magazine home.

 

[one eye joe]

Actually the thought of it being the original number did cross my mind,but was quickly dispelled as info began pouring in,,my thoughts then turned to that of a presentation piece given for service, the trooper spent 20 years in service with a 10 years as a senior firearms instructor,after that he was the president of the nysp historical division as well as a judge for a great many years,,i was of the opinion it was a custom numbered pistol,he was very well regarded in our community,,hence the interest in this pistol

IMHO, THIS IS A VERY PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION, CHRIS.....

THE NO. 25 MAY INDICATE THAT THIS IS THE 25TH SUCH AWARD PRESENTED TO A VERY WORTHY RECIPIENT, BY THE NYSP.....

THAT BEING SAID, THERE MAY BE SOME RECORD OF THE AWARDING IN A LEDGER--OR PERHAPS ENGRAVED ON A PLAQUE, IN THE NYSP HISTORICAL DIVISION.........

 

[1straykat]

OKAY TOM, I'LL GIVE IT A TRY---AND THANKS ! ! !

Hey there I see that you are truly excited about this but you don't have to SHOUT, turn the caps off, it make is easier to read. I too am interested in the outcome of this fine handgun as another S&W owner. I like Made in America Firearms even if they are old and used. They are just one of the things that Make America Great Again is all about. and I love your input, gets us all think.

 

[JH1951]

A thought.....
Didn't the factory do a special number for Jack Webb to match his famous badge number?
Certainly to have this done someone somewhere along the line would have to have considerable clout... Is it a possibility? If so, would there not be a record of this?
Just thinking out loud....

 

[PJO1425]

I can remember when ISP here in Illinois used these pistols and there is a very good reasons why they moved to another handgun.
Steve

Actually, the ISP replaced the Model 39 with the S&W Model 439 around 1980, and replaced the 439 with the S&W Model 5904 in the late 1980s. What they did after that, I don't know, cuz I was retired by then.

 

[handejector]

Actually the thought of it being the original number did cross my mind,but was quickly dispelled as info began pouring in,,

Slow Down!!!!
The Factory DID make a Mod 39 with serial # 25.
That is about all I can say here.
GET a LETTER!
Send GOOD pics with the request.
CLICK for the letter form-

Smith & Wesson Collectors Association

 

[kharmakid]

M39

Thank you!!!

 

[squidsix]

Going down the rabbit hole of "illegal altered serial number" is not helpful in this case. No BATFE agent in their right mind is interested in this case, no wiuld they ever be. Wait for the letter, the contact S&W directly about the gun if there is anything hinky about it.

 

[one eye joe]

Slow Down!!!!
The Factory DID make a Mod 39 with serial # 25.
That is about all I can say here.
GET a LETTER!
Send GOOD pics with the request.
CLICK for the letter form-

Smith & Wesson Collectors Association

I SERIOUSLY HOPE THAT THIS IS TRUE---ALTHOUGH I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU WOULD KNOW, AND WHY YOU CAN SAY NO MORE....

ITS ALL ABOVE MY PAY GRADE, AND MY "TOP SECRET" VIETNAM CRYPTO CLEARANCE IS IRRELEVANT ! ! !

 

[jglsprings]

OKAY TOM, I'LL GIVE IT A TRY---AND THANKS ! ! !

Hey Joe,

Another thing that may help, ALL UPPER CASE MEANS YOU ARE SHOUTING! OF COURSE I'M AN OLD TIMER TOO AND JUST HARD OF HEARING SO I'M USED TO BEING SHOUTED AT.

It's not a problem, just thought I'd mention it - you keep posting any way you want to...

 

[Iggy]

I'll take it. My badge number was 25. LOL!!

 

[Tom Kent]

In regard to the comments about unmarked M-39 pistols being in Vietnam, I posted some time ago on a thread about seeing a totally unmarked M-39 in the possession of a Navy "swimmer" I got stuck in a terminal at the Da Nang air base with. He let me look at and feel the pistol, after he removed the magazine from it. I did not know that it was a M-39 until sometime after the war. It had no S&W logo or any numbers on it anywhere. That would have been in about November of 1966. After the war, during my first job, I worked with a former Navy Seal. He found out I had been in VN so he and I became pals. He told me that he got badly wounded and he could barely remember being picked up by a helicopter. He said that when he woke up he was in a field hospital and his Rolex watch and his "unmarked" 9mm pistol were missing. I am sure there were not thousands of sterile M-39s over there and any record keeping of them would have been at a very high level if it existed at all and company policy would still hold that type of information secret. Believe what you will and doubt what you will but I saw one such pistol and heard of another.

 

[kharmakid]

Very nice indeed!! Congratulations iggy on your beautifull tribute!!!

 

[gmborkovic]

So Pool Hall Johnny and Vito were selling drop guns to the SEALS!
Who knew. S&W would never do anything like this. Yea, right.
When the cash crosses the desk, the deal is done.

 

[one eye joe]

In regard to the comments about unmarked M-39 pistols being in Vietnam, I posted some time ago on a thread about seeing a totally unmarked M-39 in the possession of a Navy "swimmer" I got stuck in a terminal at the Da Nang air base with. He let me look at and feel the pistol, after he removed the magazine from it. I did not know that it was a M-39 until sometime after the war. It had no S&W logo or any numbers on it anywhere. That would have been in about November of 1966. After the war, during my first job, I worked with a former Navy Seal. He found out I had been in VN so he and I became pals. He told me that he got badly wounded and he could barely remember being picked up by a helicopter. He said that when he woke up he was in a field hospital and his Rolex watch and his "unmarked" 9mm pistol were missing. I am sure there were not thousands of sterile M-39s over there and any record keeping of them would have been at a very high level if it existed at all and company policy would still hold that type of information secret. Believe what you will and doubt what you will but I saw one such pistol and heard of another.

I TOTALLY BELIEVE EVERY BIT OF THAT STORY ! ! !

A DISASSEMBLED PISTOL COULD BE MAILED TO THE STATES IN PIECES, IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT PACKAGES OF OTHER STUFF. THE EARLIER IN THE WAR, THE EASIER IT WAS....

MORE IMPORTANTLY TO ME---WELCOME HOME MY BROTHER ! ! !

 

[Tom Kent]

Welcome home to you too One Eye

 

[demkofour]

kharmakid, might I make a suggestion? Since the pistol's original owner was a NYSP trooper and you are a retired officer/deputy from NY, how about contacting the NYSP Pistol Licence Bureau in Albany...? I'm sure with minimal explaining and some professional courtesy, the trooper there, or a supervisor there, could/would research not only the pistol but also do a name look-up on the NYSP trooper/owner. This will likely reveal the pistol's origin.