s&w model 39

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kharmakid said:
Hi guys, i recently came across a model 39 aluminum frame with a 2 digit serial number, actually the serial number is 25 any one have any insight as to history or value please this pistol is mint, thanks for your help,!,
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Right here, in the SWCA protal for members only, is at least some of the information you care to know about M39 SN 25.

It's real, it exists, but you gotta pay the fiddler (and it's also a darn good thing to do, overall).

Later.
 
gmborkovic said:
Who is the definitive word on 9mm autos.? Im waiting for the results of the research that Mr. Jinks will do. If I dont own it, it can not be right?
Lets see what the research reveals. Chris has a real goodie here. Mike
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Mike , you're misinterpreting the entire slew of comments ... again.

No one is saying good or bad, Right or wrong ... All " I " am saying is that it is NOT, "the" Serial number 25 (of those of legend and lore of those that are supposed to exist under SN 1001.

"THE" only verified legendary, pre-release, special serial number was to Jack Webb as SN: 714 in 1955 and those of the X (experimental) prefix serial numbers of the early 1950s.

The OP's gun is a customized MODEL 39, of the style and production changes similar to those produced well into the 1960s.

Also, the serial number placement is wrong. It was a 5 digit serial number gun.

Also, while Roy is the holder of the records and Commander in Chief of all that is S&W, I really don't think he's going to comment much on this one.

I'll wager on all you got, and offer you odds, that it is NOT a pre-production gun, with a true serial number less than 1001.

When I found my 39-2 steel frame double stack SN 62xxx 25 years ago, Roy's first response was "everybody made frames for those things" before it was verified and proven as shipped to Camfour ... a S&W Dealer within a few miles of S&W, for an employee in 1965.

I "think" this is a real S&W alloy frame, even further I will say, it was likely numbered " ???25 " customized for the Judge.

No harm, no foul, no baloney.

I am not "the" presiding authority, but rather a well studied collector with over 30 years of serious study and experience collecting the early pre-39s and the entire 39 series. There are others that know more or different than I but we pool our factual data and have done so for over 25 years.

You have a better chance of winning the Mega Ball lottery than this one being "the" actual serial number 25 of the standard S&W pre model 39 and model 39 serialization sequence. It would need to be 1954-1955 (a pre-39) for it to be a true SN 25 and even if it was would be subject for much scrutiny.

Even Roy Jinks Serial number 13 is NOT serial number "13" but rather a Special Order, custom, Model 39-2 numbered something like A0000013. Richard McMillan (Mac) owns it.
 
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I think it was mentioned earlier, but prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, there was no U.S. legal requirement to have a serial number on a firearm.

So it certainly seems reasonable to me that this pistol, (likely built and shipped in the mid 1960s) was produced by S&W with the commemorative serial number as a special order, all perfectly legal.

John
 
M39

Gents, when i first posted this pistol i had no idea the responses it would generate. The only thing i was looking for was some history and a possible value.

Ive read posts on "altered" "modified" "great pretender" and everything in between. As a Marine vet, And highly decorated law enforcement officer, this made me dig my heels in and search deeper.

Ive made some new friends here wich to me is more valuable than any information that can be found on this pistol, for that i am greatfull.

No inference has been made that this is the "missing link" or anything other,,it simply is what it is...nothing more,nothing less.

I shall wait for the letter, patiently i might add, and will except the results of mr.jinks.

This forum has been a great tool for me and has helped me on another post regarding an old kit gun, and on this post as well.
Regards,

Chris

Ps rest assured if i did win the mega millions id buy you all a beer !!!
 
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DCW is correct on a SN 25 being shipped in 1967, which is about the time frame of the OPs gun, however, the manner in which the SN is stamped, far right instead of centered over the MODEL 39 is not how it would (or should have) been stamped.

That entry is at Ledger entry 25 on a printed pre-numbered ledger sheet, followed by: "78025 12/22/1967 KM Willams OHIO"

Yes, this post has gone to an extreme but here in this forum and in the private section that only member can access, is a sub-genre, hard-core, 39 collectors' thread on pre-production 9mms (before they were named or stamped MODEL 39 until after SN 2625 appx)

For the past 40 years, at minimum, there have been stories, rumors and tales that got larger every time discussed, of pre-production models with serial numbers under SN 1001 that were gifted to certain important persons in late 1954 and early 1955.

To the average guy who buys a Model 39, as a utilitarian piece of equipment, the fore mentioned has NO interest.

I'm hoping it turns out to be a custom, special order S&W Factory-done model but it cannot be a 1955 issue.

This is basically the entire concern of the member who pointed me to this thread that is more of a conservative and posts very little if any, and, most of the hard-core 39 collectors.

If this letters as SN: 25 shipped in 1967, that does not mean the one you are holding is, in fact, that gun. It would need to be physically examined and x-rayed to verify there were no other obliterated numbers preceding the 25.

Either way, it is a unique piece, but not one of the pre-production missing links.
 
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The trooper's first name wasn't Jamie was it? A friend of mine fits that description, retired from the NYS troopers then was a Justice of the Peace (judge) in Skaneateles, NY. He actually performed the ceremony when my first wife and I got married.
 
Making what's Right, Right

DCW said:
Right here, in the SWCA protal for members only, is at least some of the information you care to know about M39 SN 25.

It's real, it exists, but you gotta pay the fiddler (and it's also a darn good thing to do, overall).

Later.
Click to expand...

I loathe getting into trouble caused by ny own actions, but dislike it more so when attributed to me is something that will get me into trouble that weren't by me. Got paddled on time by a proncipal who wasn't so interested in nailing someone for what was done as much as making a statement the whole shool could see. And I was the primary recipient if that statement every other kid got.

So, I tend to clean matters up and quickly if at all possible when I've been fingered as "Da guy what done it."

No, I did not make any statement that the Model 39 SN 25 was shipped in 1967, even though I was aware of its location.

By omitting the details I was hoping the owner of the Model 39, SN 25 might click to the portal, donate its reasonable fee and join it.

The entirety of what was wrutten by yours truly precedes this.

Later.
 
M39

I appologize for not understanding this forums rules, i didnt understand your post completely, i thought you ment to pay for the letter.

I did in fact donate in order to post the pictures, if there is section of this forum to join i will gladly donate and join.

If you can direct me to the correct area i will do so immediatly. I appologize for my ignorance.

Regards,
Chris
 
kharmakid said:
I appologize for not understanding this forums rules, i didnt understand your post completely, i thought you ment to pay for the letter.

I did in fact donate in order to post the pictures, if there is section of this forum to join i will gladly donate and join.

If you can direct me to the correct area i will do so immediatly. I appologize for my ignorance.

Regards,
Chris
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DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF, Chris. IT TAKES A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S OPERANT HERE......

I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A MINUTE, AND MUCH OF IT IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. I OCCASIONALLY STEP INTO DOO-DOO, BUT I TRY NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE......

IN ANY EVENT, I HAVE YOUR SIX..........
 
Got question. My 39 has forward facing aberrations, long extractor and barrel is 9mm ctg. Has 6 digit serial# but shows model 39, no dash.Read where this should be 39-2. Serial#109,6XX. What am I missing?
 
Julian said:
Got question. My 39 has forward facing aberrations, long extractor and barrel is 9mm ctg. Has 6 digit serial# but shows model 39, no dash.Read where this should be 39-2. Serial#109,6XX. What am I missing?
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Model 39s go into the 110000s where the 39-2s start but there are overlaps and transitional changes to the 39-2.

Yours is just fine yet I have a 39-2 SN: 109000 NIB (has a hand stamped -2) after the MODEL 39
 
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kwill1911 said:
You may have tongue in cheek but just in case...

This is a common belief but I've searched for years to find any shred of documentary evidence for such a practice to no avail. I've interviewed Special Forces personnel and they deny having unmarked small arms. Roy Jinks has flatly denied that S&W would agree to such a practice. Documented covert missions, e.g. Gary Powers flight in the U-2, involved a High Standard silenced pistol with all the usual markings. In fact all of the HDMS pistols known have complete markings including U.S. PROPERTY. The so called "Hush Puppy" pistols based on Model 39-2 platforms have markings. Colt PHA pistols used by the OSS and CIA have markings. At best, Special Forces have been known to use Walthers, Browning HPs and AKs that were not marked "U.S." but primarily because they wanted those calibers or platforms for other reasons.

I would welcome any hard evidence that covert operators have ever used "sterile" weaponry, i.e. no markings. I'm still open to the possibility but the usual "proof" is along the lines of "my sister's second cousin's 3rd husband was a secret squirrel and swore that he used an unmarked S&W with bullets filled with disappearing ink."
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My 2nd and 3rd tour in RVN I was a MACV/CORDS Phoenix Advisor as a Cpt,USA. I came out of country in Feb 73 and brought with me a Walther PPK/S with an extended threaded barrel, fully marked with serial number. I can't say it was an 'issue' weapon, but it came through channels and after the cease fire there was no turn in necessary. It is a 'war trophy' with all the paperwork
 
WELCOME HOME, BROTHER ! ! !

THAT'S AN INTERESTING STORY, AND WEAPON. I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING A WALTHER IN COUNTRY. THAT'S PRETTY NEAT....

I OPERATED TOP SECRET CRYPTO GEAR, THAT WAS SERVICED BY CIVILIAN CONTRACTORS WHEN IT BROKE DOWN, BEYOND MY CAPABILITY. THEY WERE MAKING SERIOUS MONEY, AND LIVING LARGE IN SAIGON. I WAS OUT IN A 2 1/2 TON, JUST INSIDE THE WIRE ON HWY 1, ABOUT 20 KLICKS NORTH OF LONG BINH......

THEY LOOKED LIKE CIA TYPES, AND MOST OF THEM CARRIED BEAUTIFUL NON-GI WEAPONS, IN CUSTOM RIGS, THAT I DROOLED OVER......
 
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M3

A friend of mine, captain john early an sf type and survivor of lang vei,favored 2 distinct weapons one was a mk22mod0 with detatchable wire stock the other was a swedish k, he loved the mk22 but didnt care for the can, wipes and capsule needed to be changed after 20-25 rds, but that ol 39 never let him down!!
 
kharmakid said:
A friend of mine, captain john early an sf type and survivor of lang vei,favored 2 distinct weapons one was a mk22mod0 with detatchable wire stock the other was a swedish k, he loved the mk22 but didnt care for the can, wipes and capsule needed to be changed after 20-25 rds, but that ol 39 never let him down!!
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INTERESTING---DUDES LIKE YOUR FRIEND CAPTAIN JOHN, ARE THE REAL DEAL. THEY DESERVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF RESPECT.......
 
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