S&W Model 41 old vs new and vs Ruger Mk 4

Is your 41 unreliable or have some other problem that makes it less fun than a Ruger? I find being able to consistently hit what I am aiming at great fun!

But while a lot of fun my 41 is finicky and heavy. The finicky part means it jams more than I like with anything except CCI MiniMags but after giving up on trying to get the gun to work reliably with CCI std velocity that is not a big issue. There are times though when I bring my 22 Compact to the range instead because it is lighter and as reliable as a 22 gets even though less accurate.

I bought a 617 a few months ago that is getting a lot of range time right now. Not quite as accurate as my 41 but much more accurate than my 22 Compact.

To me the 41 is a dedicated Bullseye single hand shooting pistol. It was a good pistol for that. I never had any any ammo issues with it.

When I stopped shooting Bullseye I sod it and my 52 , again, great target pistol. that's about it.

I enjoy the Rugers for target practice as well as plinking.

Plus, I like the looks of the Mark I and II.
 
Thanks for the good comments. Went to my LGS to pick a MK IV 5.5'' threaded barrel and that was sold right from under me standing there...the cases were mostly empty but something new had come in that moment and was just put in the case...wow a MK II looks unfired, 1 mag, no box, made in 1999 50th anniversary with 50th anniversary roll mark. Nicely fitted all round and it feels very old school. The sights are fine but sharp and narrow, more precise and better than the Mk IV I think, the trigger was way better too. This gun feel a lot more like a vintage Smith. Curious serial number maybe due to the commemorative: 222-777-xx. I am glad I have it although it's 2 months out from pick up thanks to these silly NJ rules. I spent less on it than on my weekly Costco run.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4327.jpg
    IMG_4327.jpg
    91.7 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:
This one is fun...thought I'd throw it up just because. Not the best pic...

Talk about fun,, we need someone to put up a video of the crank fired Ruger MK,,,


Us7uLoO.jpg
 
There is one on display at my favorite gun show. Show only, for seeing and chatting about, it is not for sale. ;)
 
Thanks for the good comments. Went to my LGS to pick a MK IV 5.5'' threaded barrel and that was sold right from under me standing there...the cases were mostly empty but something new had come in that moment and was just put in the case...wow a MK II looks unfired, 1 mag, no box, made in 1999 50th anniversary with 50th anniversary roll mark. Nicely fitted all round and it feels very old school. The sights are fine but sharp and narrow, more precise and better than the Mk IV I think, the trigger was way better too. This gun feel a lot more like a vintage Smith. Curious serial number maybe due to the commemorative: 222-777-xx. I am glad I have it although it's 2 months out from pick up thanks to these silly NJ rules. I spent less on it than on my weekly Costco run.

Back in 1999, I bought two of those 50th Anniversary MKII pistols, and gave one to each son. They're very nice...old school, as you said. :)
 
Got a MKII 22/45 from my step brother's fathers estate a month back. Didn't take long till I was getting good groups at 25yds. Waiting on my Volquartsen parts to come and can't wait to see how it does after. Still undecided on whether to get it drilled and tapped for a mount, or go with a rear sight mount and red dot.
 
I've owned a 80's vintage 41. Great target pistol. not much fun for anything else.

I have a collection of Mk1 and MkII Rugers and find them a joy to shoot.

I have 1 MkIII 22/45 I bought as a trainer for my wife when she showed interest in shooting 1911's. It's a nice shooter, but the nanny safety features are annoying.

The problem I have with the MkIV is that as soon as it came out it had a recall. I love Rugers as much as Smith revolvers, but the quality of both brands seems poor compared to the older models.

Also, I think that the MkIV ruined the classic looks of the previous Marks.

And finally, I got a really nice MkII in the box with papers for free when a very good friend of mine took it apart and couldn't get it back together. I did it for him, and he said keep it, I'll never get the hang of it.

I love him like a brother, but he's not mechanically inclined.

So he would be the target customer for a MkIV.


OK. I'm with you that with a little practice the early MK's aren't too big a deal to reassemble. But it was enough of an issue to enough customers and Ruger apparently heard enough negative feedback that they were motivated to make changes and have sold a ton of the MKIV's as a result. Your position is that they ruined the classic looks of the previous models but I would say they did a good job keeping the lines with the exception of the front pivot pin. One could say that the older versions worked fine and they did...but bringing the pistol into the 21st century with not only the field strip changes but the improvements on all of the controls provides the platform needed to appeal to the new generation of buyers. Ruger was smart to do it.

I am very fond of my MKI and MKII and they aren't going anywhere but it is MHO that the MKIV is an improvement in terms of engineering. As for the recall and quality I see all gun makers suffer recalls. I don't see a decline in the quality of materials or workmanship in the MKIV. YMMV.

You obviously have much more experience than I do as I have never shot competition or owned the guns you reference so I respect your opinion. I just took issue with the "idiot" implication. The gun community needs lots of new members at any level of participation. This country continues to have to fight to keep the right.
 
Last edited:
Got a MKII 22/45 from my step brother's fathers estate a month back. Didn't take long till I was getting good groups at 25yds. Waiting on my Volquartsen parts to come and can't wait to see how it does after. Still undecided on whether to get it drilled and tapped for a mount, or go with a rear sight mount and red dot.

I would go with the rear sight mount and red dot of those two options. The rear sight mount will be plenty strong enough since it won't be subjected to the stress of a moving slide. I would hesitate to drill into a nice older gun.
 
I would go with the rear sight mount and red dot of those two options. The rear sight mount will be plenty strong enough since it won't be subjected to the stress of a moving slide. I would hesitate to drill into a nice older gun.

That was my thought for the rear sight option. I'll probably wait till next year for any red. Shoot her with the new parts first and get that set up.

Still researching which red dot I want. Just bought 2 Romeo5's to replace the trs25's on my gp 100 and pc carbine. But those maybe a bit big for the MKII
 
Thanks for the good comments. Went to my LGS to pick a MK IV 5.5'' threaded barrel and that was sold right from under me standing there...the cases were mostly empty but something new had come in that moment and was just put in the case...wow a MK II looks unfired, 1 mag, no box, made in 1999 50th anniversary with 50th anniversary roll mark. Nicely fitted all round and it feels very old school. The sights are fine but sharp and narrow, more precise and better than the Mk IV I think, the trigger was way better too. This gun feel a lot more like a vintage Smith. Curious serial number maybe due to the commemorative: 222-777-xx. I am glad I have it although it's 2 months out from pick up thanks to these silly NJ rules. I spent less on it than on my weekly Costco run.

Again, I'm prejudiced against the MkIV, but I think you will be happier with the MkII. Nice find, enjoy it.
 
OK. I'm with you that with a little practice the early MK's aren't too big a deal to reassemble. But it was enough of an issue to enough customers and Ruger apparently heard enough negative feedback that they were motivated to make changes and have sold a ton of the MKIV's as a result. Your position is that they ruined the classic looks of the previous models but I would say they did a good job keeping the lines with the exception of the front pivot pin. One could say that the older versions worked fine and they did...but bringing the pistol into the 21st century with not only the field strip changes but the improvements on all of the controls provides the platform needed to appeal to the new generation of buyers. Ruger was smart to do it.

I am very fond of my MKI and MKII and they aren't going anywhere but it is MHO that the MKIV is an improvement in terms of engineering. As for the recall and quality I see all gun makers suffer recalls. I don't see a decline in the quality of materials or workmanship in the MKIV. YMMV.

You obviously have much more experience than I do as I have never shot competition or owned the guns you reference so I respect your opinion. I just took issue with the "idiot" implication. The gun community needs lots of new members at any level of participation. This country continues to have to fight to keep the right.

Oh I agree, we need more people in the shooting community.

I've seen a lot of 1st timers in the LGS I go to lately. They're concerned and I don't blame them.

And I'm willing to answer questions and help a newbie in any way.



Above all, we need to get the new gun owners to join the NRA. Most new guns usually come with a membership application, usually at a discounted rate.

Our future depends on it.
 
I've had both. The M41 is at least 2x more expensive than the Mark IV. It's hardly not twice better than the MarkIV IMO.
 
The law of diminishing returns in firearms isn’t new and you aren’t wowing the crowd with this wordsmith’d shocking reveal.

I’d rather own a 41 than a Ruger Mark IV.
 
And four Ruger SR-1911's over a Wilson, sure. That's expected. That's fine also, choices are wonderful.
 
FWIW, I'll add a few different perspectives, but some are "a bit dated." I was shooting bullseye in the early 80's, and the 41 I had was THE single most reliable semi-auto I've ever owned. If someone had said "you have to bet your life the pistol won't jam on the next mag, now pick the one you want," it would have been the 41 without hesitation.

At the All-Army Championships, I finished the timed and rapid-fire phases at one point, only to find that my extractor had broken sometime that morning! It still functioned flawlessly!! (Aside: A High Standard shooter was stationed to my left in Timed Fire -- 5 shots in 20 seconds.) With unerring precision, he managed to bounce 3 out of 5 of his empties off the top of my pistol, *between the sights,* as I was shooting for score... Man, you talk about an opportunity to work on maintaining concentration despite distractions... that was it!

Over the years, I owned serial 41's which came and went as interests changed and finances contracted/expanded. However, I never had one that gave me any reliability troubles at all, and I really don't recall any friends having problems with them, either. Of course, all mine were the "OLDER" 41's. I have no experience with post-80's 41's; most of mine dated from the mid 70's or earlier, so this is based purely on personal preference (and possibly a little prejudice toward the good old guns...)
The new ones I see in the gun stores now leave me cold. They just don't seem to have the aura of fine quality of the older guns. Hopefully they perform just as well...

It's just a personal preference, but the new style lettering on the new 41's (don't know when it started) makes me want to hurl. So, when I finally got into owning another 41 again it was, of course, an older one.

Don't discount a 41 with the 5" Lightweight Field Barrel as a trail/hunting gun. I got into a big community of squirrels near a swamp one time -- like commuters coming home from work, they all just started appearing from across the creek and heading to their squirrel condo's on my side. I had my 41 5" LW and match ammo and was picking them off of trees as far as 50-60 yards. I don't think I ever even got a shot closer than 40 yards. This was iron-sighted, of course, and back when I could see. I had a "slenderized" set of 41 grips that were much like 1911 grips, and carried it in a GI 1911 flap holster to protect it. No trouble at all. Today, the turn-key approach would be a set of Herrett's "Nationals," which replicate the 1911's feel (with your choice of flat or arched mainspring housing!)

(BTW, I did learn that an exceedingly fine 34-1, 4" makes a fantastic trail/small game gun that's much lighter, more compact and less hassle than the 41 if you're gonna carry it often.)

While in college, in the mid-late 80's, I tried to make a sow's ear ... er, I mean, a Ruger Mark II, 5.5" bull bbl, ajustable rear sight ... into a good, budget-friendly bullseye pistol... twice. I never could get a decent trigger job done at that time, and that was the irredeemable failure of that otherwise excellent pistol.

The Ruger's issue rear sight was "busy" and distracting to the eye for pure bullseye shooting, so I coughed up the bucks for a better rear sight with a target rear blade and more precise adjustments. Mechanical accuracy was superb, on both Rugers. Just shooting irons off sandbags at 50 yards on the standard Slow Fire target, they would easily clean the 10 ring with plenty of room to spare and good X-counts. Again, iron-sighted. Lord knows WHAT they would have done from a proper machine rest! And, that was with Winchester Super X or CCI Mini Mags, whichever was handy (back before Winchester's .22 ammo QC went into the sewer.)

The fatal flaw being a relatively poor trigger, I never considered either Ruger really good enough for the level of competition I was at. They were really fine pistols, otherwise, and totally reliable in my experience.

I evolved into a rifle shooter, and got my Distinguished Rifleman badge as one of the EARLY AR-15 shooters, back when we were looked down on and harassed by the M1A folks. (I started with the M1A, but the AR stock fit so much better that even my prone slow fire 600 yard scores were significantly better with the AR.)

I waited several years, and finally decided to go back and get Pistol Distinguished. It had been 18 years since I'd last fired a Bullseye match.

I got a Kidd-built Beretta 92 (which is just like shooting a little target rifle -- it's SOOOO much easier to shoot well than the 1911's I'd been shooting.) What a work of art!! And, of course, I got another old 41, which again proved fine for the task.

In Ransom rest testing, I found that my 41 bbl didn't much like either of my 2 lots of Eley which were left over from Rifle Silhouette. In the spirit of keeping an open mind, I put a magazine of Win. Super-X in, and it put 10 rounds in a single hole at 50 yards!!

This was the good quality, older Winchester. I'd reflexively bought a case at $1.50 a box when (haaaaawk... ptuie!) Bill Clinton got elected "Resident," and still had most of it left. I left the original target on the backer, stapled a fresh center over it, and shot another 10-shot group. The hole in the bottom target MIGHT have gotten a little bigger -- can't remember.

I wound up shooting 5, ten-shot groups like that, and my ammo quest was done. It kept all 50 rds in a phenomenal group, and that case of Super-X was the ammo I wound up using to go Distinguished. Still had a good bit of it left, too, when I legged out! :)

After a 3-month train-up -- mostly focusing on my timing in the sustained fire portion, as my Slow Fire scores were already good, I went Distinguished in 3 leg matches. Goal met, the Kidd Beretta 92 and the 41 went away shortly thereafter.

Of late, I started thinking about .22 target pistols, got nostalgic, and traded for a nice, older 41 with a 5" LW field barrel. Man, the prices have exploded since the 80's/90's, or so it seems! As with the others, it is beautifully finished, extremely reliable, and very accurate. I'm thinking this one's gonna wind up being a "keeper."

Hope this "vintage" perspective from a certified "old guy" is of interest to
some of the younger folks, who didn't get to experience the 41's in the way we did.

Best to all of you,
John
 
Last edited:
Excellent story, John! About the only thing that my brain can’t compute is why you kick guns outta the safe when a particular “quest” for which they were needed has been finished.

Oh well, I suppose I get tied up with some guns and simply couldn’t send them away.
 
Never shot a 41. Got a 22/45 Mk III for my son. Never had any major difficulties with break down or reassembly. I bought a MK IV target during the past year. I can't imagine what's not to like about it's take down method. Pure pleasure. The trigger was terrible out of the box. I ordered and installed the V kit and now a beautiful 2.5 lb trigger. I love it now. It's way more accurate than I am.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top