S&W Model 52-2, failure to fire quite often.

[mikemyers]

I thought the best answer for now would be to use the same set screws, not screw them in all the way, and use blue Loctite to hold them in place. I'll look for the "Plug Screws" at Brownell's; they would make for a prettier solution.

The screws that were in it were just screwed in place, nothing to hold them there. Had people checked they were tight, they would have gone in further. As it was, they were flush with the top of the rail on the top, which left them sticking out on the bottom.

Not too long ago, I wanted to mount an Aimpoint Micro sight on the gun, but if I ever do that (doubtful), I would get somebody's mounts (don't know who) that locates the Micro where the rear sight on the M-52 is now. Now that I've had my cataracts removed, I want to shoot with the steel sights that come on the gun.

I'm pretty sure I now have two working 52's. I guess one stays in the safe with the other guns I rarely use, and I load up a ton of ammunition for the other, since it is so enjoyable to shoot!

 

[donk52]

Let us know how it shoots. Good luck.

 

[mikemyers]

Will do. I plan to take it to the range on a free day, this coming Monday.

My question to myself now, is whether I shoot it two-handed, as I've done all my life, or one handed, as I've been learning to do with my Model 41. After all this work and effort, I guess I should shoot it the way it was designed to be used.

 

[Sevens]

I shoot my 52's both one handed and two handed. I shoot two handed more often. I don't practice one handed as much as I should, but I often seem to do better one handed then I expect to do.

If life allowed me more REGULARLY scheduled range trips, I would set up a routine.

 

[mikemyers]

Gee, that's another option - not decide, just do both!

I guess I don't come to this forum enough. I didn't "remember" you when you first started responding here, but now I see your responses all over the sections of the forum covering the Model 52. I have more S&W guns than any other brands I own, starting with my very first gun, the "Dirty Harry" gun. I was thinking the other day that I should relax for a while, and just start shooting them to enjoy them.

I don't have the same enthusiasm about buying any newer S&W guns; invariably, I compare them to the past, and I'm obviously still living in the past. Heck, I'm from "the past" myself.

Maybe you'll find a way to fit in more range trips on a somewhat regular schedule. What's your favorite gun, if I can ask? For "practice", maybe you can set up an area for dry-fire, and do that two or three times a week. To me, dry-fire is the time to learn how to improve. Range trips are like a test, to see what I've learned from the dry-firing. In-between, there's always reloading, at least for me.

 

[Sevens]

Ahhhh, "my favorite." It is a question that I try to answer and I'm not sure that I can! I always feel like picking one is being mean to others! Perhaps the only pure answer is the one that comes quickest and naturally, that would be my Performance Center 845 Limited. But don't tell any of my other handguns!

 

[mikemyers]

I just did a search for more information on the 845. Wow. Rare, accurate, and wonderful. Put up a photo sometime, so we can all drool over it.

Tomorrow, Sunday, I'm off to a match. Monday I'll try out the 52 and see what it's like, and what I can do with it. I remember my 52 being very picky about so many things. When I did them all correctly, the gun responded, but it was much more capable than when it was in my hands. This time, will try with one and with two hands. Thanks again! Final report coming on Monday.

 

[mikemyers]

Sevens, I should never ask this here, as it might cost me big time eventually, but what is so special about the 845? Is it a "collectors gun", or do people use them, and if the latter, is it suitable for Bullseye Competition?

Back on target, or topic, or whatever, my plan is to go to the range with the Model 52 tomorrow, and just enjoy shooting it.

I saw the people who owned and worked on it earlier today, at a match, but I just didn't have the heart to tell them what we found. I know it's going to. upset them, so maybe I will wait a week or two more.

Don, you were about to tell me to do something with the trigger screws; never happened because we solved the issue. What was it we were going to do?

 

[donk52]

If the gun functions ok I would leave them alone. I was just worried someone might have tinkered with them. Waiting to hear your range report.

 

[mikemyers]

Just got home. Same problem. Nothing has changed.

I shot it one handed, two handed, sideways (horizontal) and it is exactly the same as before we started. I'm even more suspicious about the mainspring, as the gun is so much easier to pull the hammer back than mine. The spring should have been here Friday, but nothing yet.......

I removed all three of those tiny screws in the slide completely. I need to find a way to look into the firing pin chamber, and make sure everything is good. I didn't really have the right tool to check the firing pin, to make sure it now moves smoothly, but with my tiny screwdriver, I thought I found it "sticking".

On the back of the slide, how far should the firing pin extend "out"? I want to measure that on both my guns and compare. What controls the depth to which the firing pin protrudes when the gun is fired?

 

[donk52]

Well, it should stick out as far as the one in the gun that works.

 

[mikemyers]

Can I start with a question, so I understand better?

The gun is in someone's hands, ready to fire. Hammer back, one round in the chamber, and the shooter fires. Which of the following two scenarios happens.

A)
The mainspring pushes the hammer up and forward,and slams into the firing pin with adequate speed and force. The hammer continues on its way until it reaches the round part I've been calling the safety. The hammer stops. But, the firing pin continues on its way, hopefully with enough speed and inertia, compressing the firing pin spring, until the firing pin hits the primer. The indent it makes in the primer fires the primer, and everything else follows.

That is what I think is happening. My other scenario...

B)
The hammer come up, hits the firing pin, and literally pushes the firing pin into the primer. About then, the hammer stops when it hits the "safety".

I'm pretty sure this is NOT what is happening.

 

[JohnHL]

"A" is correct.

John

 

[mikemyers]

I haven't found a good way to measure how far the firing pin sticks out beyond the "safety", waiting to be hit by the hammer. The closest I could measure, was 1/10th of an inch. I don't have the tools to do this better. I tried over and over to take a photo of the firing pin extending beyond the safety. This is the best I could do.

Explanation - slide is aimed away from me, with a light shining into the back, trying to light up the firing pin. The dark gray shape pointing "down" in my photo is actually the firing pin. I will take a similar photo of my good gun.

I no longer think this is the problem - read my next response.

 

[mikemyers]

I suspect this is the main problem.

Here is a photo of the old mainspring (bottom) and new mainspring (top).

Old spring is 2" long, .27 diameter, .05" wire, and 22 coils.

New spring is 2" long, .27 diameter, .05" wire, and 18.5 coils.


Assembling with the new spring was much more difficult - I needed to do the tie-strap trick to get it started.

I don't know what other changes the new spring will make, but it will certainly apply more pressure to the firing pin.

It probably makes no difference, but the coils are wound in the opposite direction.

 

[donk52]

Looks like that's the culprit. Maybe it's a mod 41 spring? I can't tell by the pic.

 

[mikemyers]

Sorry, according to this page, the end coils don't count, only the active coils:
Design Tips: Coil Count | Murphy & Read Spring Manufacturing Co. | Blog and Recent News

So in reality, the old spring had 20 active coils, and the new spring has 16.

So much I've forgotten...... sorry.

 

[mikemyers]

Don, it is a Model 41 spring. According to all the sources I checked, this is the spring that goes on a Model 52. Numrich and Brownells gave me the same information.

Now to re-assemble the gun, and hopefully try it tomorrow.

 

[mikemyers]

Looking at the picture of that firing pin, It looks almost flush with the safety' It should protrude enough for the hammer to strike it. What do you think?

I think I did a lousy job on that photograph. There was no way I could find to get a good photo. I compared the firing pin to my working gun, and this gun actually felt better!!! I think both had the pin sticking out the same amount on both guns.

I think before I do anything else, even put the three small screws back in, I'll take it to the range and test it again.

I don't in any way feel like a 'smith, maybe a trainee working for you, somewhat. An apprentice. I do think the new spring is going to give it about 20% more kick.

I do recall that a spring with more coils is stiffer than a spring with fewer coils. Since the gun is close to working, I think this added power will allow it to work as intended.


To me, what I learned from you is FAR more important than getting the gun working. I learned about everything except the sear and the trigger. Not sure how to say THANK YOU loud enough!

 

[mikemyers]

One more thing - I wasn't surprised the S&W guys didn't find the problem with the three screws hitting the firing pin spring, or the burr. Why would they? They know what parts go where, and how to see if they're worn or damaged. Why would they even think to look for a burr, or the screws? But I would expect them to check the mainspring as one of the first things to do.

Oh well, I wait for tomorrow, and see if it works now. If so, I'll look for those Brownell's "cap screws". That will look a lot neater.