I was in my local LGS this afternoon buying a brick of CCI-SV and I window shopped their used handgun dept. There sat a 52-2 In Brand new condition with the original box. They also had a M41 with the 7-3/8th barrel and two with a 5.5 inch barrel as well. The longer one was virtually Brand new as well with Muzzle Brake on it. Serial no. range of around 110568. Thats at Gobles in London Ont.
S&W Model 52-2, failure to fire quite often.
- Thread starter mikemyers
- Start date
03Fatboy
Member
I have been watching and reading this thread hoping for a favorable outcome! Fingers crossed.
Of those choices, I thought I cleaned out the FP tunnel, but if today's test doesn't work, I will do it again more thoroughly.
Anyone know the proper length of the M-52 Firing Pin?
Firing pin spring - my new spring from Wolff should be here this week.
Mainspring - was definitely too weak. Replaced with what I think is the proper spring. Will test that in a few hours.
If you mean Ontario, good thing it's so far away. I get tempted by things when I shouldn't. Did you check the prices?
Well, I figure there's a good chance that the stiffer mainspring will fix it, but yesterday I thought there was a good chance eliminating to problems would fix it.
If not, it comes apart tonight, and I work on the FP channel some more, and while I'm at it, measure the firing pin.
Seems to me that since it was already making weak strikes on the primer, the stronger mainspring should make a big difference. I took a once-fired shell casing, no bullet, with that very small indent from the firing pin, loaded it in my gun last night, and "fired" it again. The indent in the old primer got considerably deeper and wider. I took that as a very good sign.
Most of the reason for buying the gun was to learn how to work on it, and thanks mostly to Don, I got all that I hoped for, and a LOT more. I'd like this gun to work, but learning how to work on it was much more important to me.
I wish Don lived closer................
Maybe he'll retire to Miami Beach some day.......
donk52
Member
Chances are good it's the main spring.
Miami beach sounds nice. (in the winter). Summertime, I'm happy out here in Western Massachusetts. Most weekends in the Berkshires.
Miami beach sounds nice. (in the winter). Summertime, I'm happy out here in Western Massachusetts. Most weekends in the Berkshires.
Very confused. Go to the range, and loaded 5 rounds. All fired. I was just starting to feel good, when it failed to fire again every so often.
What is totally bizarre, is while yesterday and before there was ALWAYS a mark on the primer, several times today there was nothing. Nothing at all.
Talking to the fellow who worked on the gun before, he told me how he had filed off a burr on what you are calling the "safety".
I'd like to get a new safety, and a new firing pin. Not sure if they're available or not. Will check this out now.
.........those first five rounds were SO nice though!
What is totally bizarre, is while yesterday and before there was ALWAYS a mark on the primer, several times today there was nothing. Nothing at all.
Talking to the fellow who worked on the gun before, he told me how he had filed off a burr on what you are calling the "safety".
I'd like to get a new safety, and a new firing pin. Not sure if they're available or not. Will check this out now.
.........those first five rounds were SO nice though!
If there is something wrong with the mainspring, I probably wouldn't know it. They're still available, so I ordered a new one.
The fellow at the track told he had filed off something from the safety. I'm not sure what he did, or if it's now OK, but I ordered a new one along with the firing pin.
My new firing pin spring arrived today. It says "extra strength", which may or may not be beneficial.
The fellow who worked on the gun before told me he had completely cleaned out the firing pin chamber, so there should be nothing there. I guess that now that I have a little better idea of what I'm doing, I can do it again.
Unless the firing pin were somehow binding up, I don't understand how there could be NO mark on the primer. Doesn't sound logical.
Sure was nice shooting it when it worked!
The fellow at the track told he had filed off something from the safety. I'm not sure what he did, or if it's now OK, but I ordered a new one along with the firing pin.
My new firing pin spring arrived today. It says "extra strength", which may or may not be beneficial.
The fellow who worked on the gun before told me he had completely cleaned out the firing pin chamber, so there should be nothing there. I guess that now that I have a little better idea of what I'm doing, I can do it again.
Unless the firing pin were somehow binding up, I don't understand how there could be NO mark on the primer. Doesn't sound logical.
Sure was nice shooting it when it worked!
donk52
Member
Mikemeyers, I would remove those screws in the slide altogether. Don't put that extra strength spring in yet, just the new pin and go from there. Test the movement of the pin when assembled. You should not feel ANY "hangup" resistance. We'll be waiting.
Oops, I meant to write
If there is something wrong with the firing pin, I probably wouldn't know it. They're still available, so I ordered a new one.
Will do as you suggest.
I need to figure out why and where he filed on the safety. Shouldn't have had to have done that.
Should I get this?
If there is something wrong with the firing pin, I probably wouldn't know it. They're still available, so I ordered a new one.
Will do as you suggest.
I need to figure out why and where he filed on the safety. Shouldn't have had to have done that.
Should I get this?
Attachments
donk52
Member
Those won't do you any good since you can dry fire these guns. You could always use your pin from your other gun since you're so good at working on these now.? Try removing the plug/screws. They may be moving and rubbing the firing pin spring. Maybe even switch safeties. they should be compatible between guns.
Don, I removed the screws completely last time. They are up so high right now that they can't reach anything. They are sticking WAY up.
Tomorrow might be a good day to disassemble the slide again.
The new firing pin probably isn't needed, but I can eliminate that as being an issue by trying another.
The previous guy who worked on the gun told me filed away at something on the safety - next time it's out, I will examine it a lot more closely. I only work on the safety inside a plastic bag, so I can't lose the plunger and spring. If the other guy had to file on it, maybe there's something going on there. .......how do I remove the plunger and spring if I want to?
Read this on the internet - what are your thoughts on taking empty 38 Special cases, applying a round piece of masking tape to the back, and seeing what kind of indents I am getting when I fire the gun?
If I don't get it going in the next week, I need to put it off to the side until I return from India in four weeks.
Do you know the correct length of a firing pin for a Model 52 ?
Tomorrow might be a good day to disassemble the slide again.
The new firing pin probably isn't needed, but I can eliminate that as being an issue by trying another.
The previous guy who worked on the gun told me filed away at something on the safety - next time it's out, I will examine it a lot more closely. I only work on the safety inside a plastic bag, so I can't lose the plunger and spring. If the other guy had to file on it, maybe there's something going on there. .......how do I remove the plunger and spring if I want to?
Read this on the internet - what are your thoughts on taking empty 38 Special cases, applying a round piece of masking tape to the back, and seeing what kind of indents I am getting when I fire the gun?
If I don't get it going in the next week, I need to put it off to the side until I return from India in four weeks.
Do you know the correct length of a firing pin for a Model 52 ?
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I need to find just the right size punch to test this with. The way I'm doing it now, I certainly can't say I don't feel ANY hangup/resistance, but I have no idea what it's from. I guess it should just feel buttery-smooth. Will get to it......
Slide is off the gun again.
By making marks on a punch, I tried to measure how far into the slide the end of the firing pin had to move, before the other end would emerge from its tunnel. As best I can measure it, the distance is 0.16 inches to 0.17 inches. I don't have tools to do this accurately.
Firing pin is totally free, no binding, no rubbing, no nothing, but the spring feels VERY powerful. Maybe the firing pin spring that is in the gun now is too powerful?
I don't see how/where I can adjust anything, and you suggested I not use any lubrication in that area.
I noticed that if I put the safety in the SAFE position, and put the end of my punch right on the firing pin, it does NOT go in very far. Something is blocking it.
Should I have lubricated any of the parts involving the hammer? I didn't. One drop of oil on the end of the firing pin?
By making marks on a punch, I tried to measure how far into the slide the end of the firing pin had to move, before the other end would emerge from its tunnel. As best I can measure it, the distance is 0.16 inches to 0.17 inches. I don't have tools to do this accurately.
Firing pin is totally free, no binding, no rubbing, no nothing, but the spring feels VERY powerful. Maybe the firing pin spring that is in the gun now is too powerful?
I don't see how/where I can adjust anything, and you suggested I not use any lubrication in that area.
I noticed that if I put the safety in the SAFE position, and put the end of my punch right on the firing pin, it does NOT go in very far. Something is blocking it.
Should I have lubricated any of the parts involving the hammer? I didn't. One drop of oil on the end of the firing pin?
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Don, I woke up in the middle of the night, thinking about this. The previous person to work on the gun said he f filed a "burr" on the safety. Not sure where that was supposed to be - will ask him later in the week when I see him.
The firing pin moves perfectly freely. No bumps, drag, friction, it just goes in and out perfectly. What I was thinking, is what if something on the safety is creating the problem?
Two things I can try. First, to take two shots with the safety "on", then turn it "off" and see if the next shot is good.
Second, unless you tell me otherwise, I can move the safety lever just the tiniest amount, so it no longer appears to be rubbing on the top of the firing pin. Maybe that will cure the problem. Don't know, just speculating.
If either of those ideas seems to improve the gun, I have a new 'safety' on the way, not filed on, not modified, just right from S&W; it's a new part, not. used.
While fiddling with the safety last night, I turned on the safety, but used a small punch to press on the firing pin. It moved a tiny amount, then wouldn't go any further. I know the safety is supposed to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin, but what might be going on inside the device? Why would the firing pin not move inwards, when the safety is on? Maybe whatever this is, it could also be the source of my problems.
I ordered a new set of brass punches, and one of those devices that supports the gun while you're removing pins. About time I got one.
Finally, in the back of my head, I'm wondering if the people before me put in a firing spring that is too stiff. The springs I got from Wolff say "Firing Pin Spring EXTRA POWER". If for any reason my firing pin isn't coming out as far as it should, this could help. But it's the opposite of what I need, if it's preventing the pin from reaching the primer with enough force.
Installing the proper mainspring should help with all this - instead of light strikes on the primer, quite often there were NO strikes on the primer, which sounds impossible. Something has to be preventing the pin from reaching the primer properly, and without knowing enough about this to really comment, the safety looks like the only remaining part. It's making the gun safe when it shouldn't be.
......added later. If the safety isn't allowing the firing pin to come out all the way for the next "hit", maybe the extra power firing pin spring might be worth testing. I guess I need to start checking this after every shot, that the firing pin is out as far as it should be.
The firing pin moves perfectly freely. No bumps, drag, friction, it just goes in and out perfectly. What I was thinking, is what if something on the safety is creating the problem?
Two things I can try. First, to take two shots with the safety "on", then turn it "off" and see if the next shot is good.
Second, unless you tell me otherwise, I can move the safety lever just the tiniest amount, so it no longer appears to be rubbing on the top of the firing pin. Maybe that will cure the problem. Don't know, just speculating.
If either of those ideas seems to improve the gun, I have a new 'safety' on the way, not filed on, not modified, just right from S&W; it's a new part, not. used.
While fiddling with the safety last night, I turned on the safety, but used a small punch to press on the firing pin. It moved a tiny amount, then wouldn't go any further. I know the safety is supposed to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin, but what might be going on inside the device? Why would the firing pin not move inwards, when the safety is on? Maybe whatever this is, it could also be the source of my problems.
I ordered a new set of brass punches, and one of those devices that supports the gun while you're removing pins. About time I got one.
Finally, in the back of my head, I'm wondering if the people before me put in a firing spring that is too stiff. The springs I got from Wolff say "Firing Pin Spring EXTRA POWER". If for any reason my firing pin isn't coming out as far as it should, this could help. But it's the opposite of what I need, if it's preventing the pin from reaching the primer with enough force.
Installing the proper mainspring should help with all this - instead of light strikes on the primer, quite often there were NO strikes on the primer, which sounds impossible. Something has to be preventing the pin from reaching the primer properly, and without knowing enough about this to really comment, the safety looks like the only remaining part. It's making the gun safe when it shouldn't be.
......added later. If the safety isn't allowing the firing pin to come out all the way for the next "hit", maybe the extra power firing pin spring might be worth testing. I guess I need to start checking this after every shot, that the firing pin is out as far as it should be.
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donk52
Member
While fiddling with the safety last night said:When the safety is "on" the firing pin should not move, it locks the pin. Here is the pic of the pin sticking up from the surface of the safety. In this pic the safety is "off", the hammer needs to hit it fully in order to push the pin, to hit the primer.
The wrong main spring is definitely a major problem.
Don, that's what I'm asking about. In your photo, if the hammer comes towards the firing pin, it will hit it, and. presumably the pin will move forwards, and the tun will hopefully fire.
If I rotate the safety to the "SAFE" position, the hammer can't reach the firing pin, as it is blocked by the safety.
While the 'safety' is on, suppose I reach behind the safety, and push on the firing pin, Should it move? That's what I was trying, and it did NOT move. Thus, my question, I know the safety is blocking the firing pin, but how is it also locking the firing pin in place?
If I rotate the safety to the "SAFE" position, the hammer can't reach the firing pin, as it is blocked by the safety.
While the 'safety' is on, suppose I reach behind the safety, and push on the firing pin, Should it move? That's what I was trying, and it did NOT move. Thus, my question, I know the safety is blocking the firing pin, but how is it also locking the firing pin in place?
Don, I think I found the problem. Not sure what to do about it.
I worked the firing pin back and forth for a long time last night, and again early this morning. Then I put the slide on the gun, and dropped the hammer it a few times.
The firing pin then felt like it was rubbing (scrubbing) against something, and once or twice it felt like it stopped, as if it hit something. With enough force, I can move it.
Gun is still assembled. As I understood things, the firing pin will move the same, regardless of whether the slide is mounted to the frame.
It is very repeatable. The way it is now, I wouldn't expect it to fire reliably.
I guess I remove the slide again, and try to find a way to replicate whatever is "sticking".........
I worked the firing pin back and forth for a long time last night, and again early this morning. Then I put the slide on the gun, and dropped the hammer it a few times.
The firing pin then felt like it was rubbing (scrubbing) against something, and once or twice it felt like it stopped, as if it hit something. With enough force, I can move it.
Gun is still assembled. As I understood things, the firing pin will move the same, regardless of whether the slide is mounted to the frame.
It is very repeatable. The way it is now, I wouldn't expect it to fire reliably.
I guess I remove the slide again, and try to find a way to replicate whatever is "sticking".........
Making progress - if I remove the magazine, the firing pin is totally free, no resistance other than the spring. Put the magazine back in, and it gets rough again. I put a different magazine in, and I think it's better than with the original. So, next question is how can something "tighten up" in the gun when the magazine is inserted? Magazine disconnect?
I found this page, but it wasn't much help:
model 39 magazine disconnect?
It's all starting to make sense. Maybe that part is missing, or not adjusted correctly?
I found this page, but it wasn't much help:
model 39 magazine disconnect?
It's all starting to make sense. Maybe that part is missing, or not adjusted correctly?
Learning.....
From the web: A magazine disconnect feature does not allow a user to fire the gun.... by means of a mechanism that engages an internal safety such as a firing-pin block.....
Viewing my gun as I insert the magazine, the firing pin moves smoothly until the magazine goes past 1/4" from home. I can see parts move inside the gun, and when the magazine is fully in, I am back to having my problem.
I tried two different magazines, same story.
From the web: A magazine disconnect feature does not allow a user to fire the gun.... by means of a mechanism that engages an internal safety such as a firing-pin block.....
Viewing my gun as I insert the magazine, the firing pin moves smoothly until the magazine goes past 1/4" from home. I can see parts move inside the gun, and when the magazine is fully in, I am back to having my problem.
I tried two different magazines, same story.
