S&W's Revolvers going forward

[BigBill]

Packing in the bad areas. My 1911 race pistol with 8 magazines should do it. For a revolver the s&w m58 41mag, 4" barrel would work.

But right now if I was going to shop for a new ccw revolver the 4.2" barrel Redhawk would work. Eight shots.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

SO CONFUSING!!!!! Y'all bounced all over the board without answering the precise questions!

Not to even begin to mention that Tom S/Mod sent a good reminder, the OP asked these two questions:

What will S&W do going forward to combat the Kimber K6s and even the new Cobra with the bobbed hammer? Maybe nothing, but I wonder if they are working on something?

Then he added what he'd like to see. But, leaving that out, the answer to the questions is, from my contacts with S&W and that includes their reps and sample guns at the Safari Club expo I recently attended, mostly nothing. I think the answer is simple. Or answers.

First, S&W makes so many revolvers (just check their online catalog) it doesn't seem necessary for them to "do something" to "combat" the Kimber K6 line or the new Colt Cobra line.

Next, and maybe it's just me, I don't find the K6 all that attractive. Even the two-tone version is kind of borderline ugly to my eyes. It does hold six rounds - that is its one advantage to my way of thinking. The concealed hammer is not news, of course, but it does aid concealment.

The Colt Cobra is obviously better looking than the K6 but it, too, has only one advantage - 6 rounds.

S&W has three current J frame models available in this "belly gun" world. The obviously believe they are sufficiently competitive in the concealed carry market that they don't need a super small six shooter and they are probably right.

The one error I think S&W makes in their present HUGE line of revolvers is the next step up from super small - a round butt K frame with a 2" or shorter barrel. The gun I picture is a modification of the old DAO Model 64. Bobbed hammer, DAO as noted, all steel or maybe an Airweight frame. But think of the variations on that theme - a shrouded hammer like a Model 638 or concealed hammer like a Model 642 and since the 642 comes without an internal lock so could this K frame. (The IL is of no consequence to me but to those who care this would be nice for S&W to accomplish.)

So, if they're not working on anything new in their present revolver line at S&W, I wish they would!

 

[comiskeybum]

Here's the thing......the K6s isnt a true J frame competitor. Its bigger in every dimension. Does it still fit in pocket? Yeah.....barely. But they are not tru competitors in my eye, especially with the outrageous price they carry. Kimber would be smart to come out with with .38spl only models around 500 bucks. Profile the size down just a tad to truly compete with Smith.

To me, nothing beats a smith revolver and there are very few revolvers that are not smith that i have any interest in owning. Kimber isnt one of them.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I have no desire for a Kimber, but unlike others I have no reservations on new Smiths. The only pause I have with a new Smith is not the IL, it is the slightly longer four inch barrel. I like the older duty holsters, the Jordan in particular. That extra length interferes with seating in the holster. Same problem with Rugers 4.2 inch barrel makes them unusable in a four inch plugged holster.

 

[Ashlander]

S&W is letting the competition run loose in the 6 shot small revolver market. My Kimber K6s fits perfectly in a Galco holster I bought for my model. Its factory trigger is worlds above any J frame I have owned (5 off the top of my head). Of course, there's also the new Colt.

Now too Taurus is replacing it's Model 85 (essentially its 5 shot J-frame) with a new 6 shot Model 856 that's the size of a Kimber K6s. The Taurus rep at Shot Show 18 said it was for practical purposes the same size as the 85 (the cylinder on the 856 is only .05" wider and the 856 is actually a fraction of an ounce lighter). The MSRP is $329 for matt blued and $349 for matt stainless.

I have a couple recently made Taurus revolvers and they are excellent. I know they have not always been that way, but nowadays CNC machinery in Brazil apparently works just as well as CNC machinery here in America.

 

[BAM-BAM]

And here I thought the Kimber and Colt were their response to Smith still selling lots of small J-frame revolvers!!!!!

"Hey; look over here, we've got short barrelled revolver too...... and look ours hold 6 rounds!!!!

1911s are still selling after 107 years and today every Gun company builds one...... small Smith and Ruger revolvers are selling so other companies are looking for a piece of the market...

I'm old school so not fond of the "lock" and the new hammer..... but hey things change.........but for me if I'm dealing with the size of a 6 shot cylinder ..... give me a 3" barrel to go with it!!!!!!

 

[ladder13]

I looked at one of the new Cobras. Not near the quality of new Smiths. The machining was rougher, and the trigger DA was not good.

More Charterarmish.

 

[Barrie]

S&W has recently come out with a new model 66 from the Performance center. I also recently bought a model 8-shot 627 Performance Revolver in 357 with two sets of grips with it. It is a N frame model which is extremely accurate with adjustable factory sights on the rear and the body done in the Matte Stainless finish. The price hurt a bit but its a beautiful gun to shoot with a very sweet trigger on it.

 

[ImDrRich]

Reborn -

I don't know why S&W didn't reintroduce, in the new "Classic" line, the Model 19 in the various barrel lengths. I'm scratching my head over that one.

 

[Practical]

I would think they would do nothing.

I am willing to predict both guns you speak of will be out of production in 5 years.

 

[S&W Rover]

CNC machining and the ability to monitor the demands of the market together should allow S&W to economically produce many different models in smaller quantities. If a counter to the Cobra and the K6 is required, S&W should generate a better response and get it on the market quickly. Is the answer to the K6 a slimmed down K frame snubbie? Or to bring back the 6 shot J frame 632 .327 Fed Mag? Or is it a new frame size altogether, allowing a six shot .38 Special cylinder slightly wider than a J frame's?

Quality control? At $700 or more, a S&W revolver should meet the standards expected of a high-end product. It should be perfect. My wife has a modern sewing machine that cost about $700 and has a heck of a lot more machining, intricate parts, screws, springs, detailed assembly, etc., than any handgun at any price today -- not to mention a motor and a computer. I've been told the modern practice is that the CNC machine with its sensors is inherently providing the QC - there is no separate QC inspector. But there should be. Pay him or her $100 an hour, let them inspect five guns an hour, and I'd gladly pay $20 extra for the assurance that every S&W revolver I care to order is perfect right out of the box. (It would save S&W a lot of money all of the returns must cost them, too).

Back to the OP's point, S&W should tweak their line of revolvers to bring us something that responds directly to the challenge posed by the Cobra and the K6. S&W has introduced some interesting revolver designs recently - the 5 shot .44 Special L frame, the Model 66 with a two-piece 2.75 inch barrel, etc., indicating they are aware of the need to keep customers interested and happy. A well-thought out response to the Cobra and the K6 -- something that has six charge holes and is still svelte -- would be worth owning.

 

[Wise_A]

What exactly do the K6 and Cobra do that every other revolver on the market doesn't?

The K6 goes for ~$750 on Bud's, and a grand retail everywhere I've seen one. It's got some little sights on it...and that's about it. Compare to the 640 Pro for a couple hundred less, which gets you the sights and a cylinder cut for moonclips.

The Cobra is...okay, the only people excited about the Cobra, it seems, are S&W guys. It's a pig. The bobbed hammer is lipstick to try and move a mediocre gun that isn't selling. Even the examples they brought to SHOT were poorly-finished.

S&W's biggest problem is that the limited revolver market is saturated by the sheer volume of SKUs that S&W puts out, along with the competition from all the used Smiths that are indistinguishable from the brand-new ones. They've made a product that's too durable.

If anything, S&W needs to figure out the niches that are in-demand on the used market, and focus on getting some of those to market, along with the popular new guns (686, 625, hammerless Js, etc). Although their new .380 with the grip and thumb safety is baller--they're gonna sell extremely well.

Hey Smith, wanna sell a truckload of new revolvers? Make an L-frame 10mm. We're averaging a new 10mm automatic a month, and ya'll can't take $1200-$1400 610s as a hint that a new version would sell well.

And I kinda want a new K-frame .327 Fed Mag, but there are limited numbers of freaks like me.

PS, dudes -- $700 for a new steel-framed gun is a steal. That's about what Springfield's midrange Range Officer goes for if you get a good deal. Arguing that every new $700 S&W should be perfect and flawless is borderline fantasy. Manufacturing guns costs way more money than you dudes presume it does.

 

[Ashlander]

What exactly do the K6 and Cobra do that every other revolver on the market doesn't?

The K6 goes for ~$750 on Bud's, and a grand retail everywhere I've seen one. It's got some little sights on it...and that's about it. Compare to the 640 Pro for a couple hundred less, which gets you the sights and a cylinder cut for moonclips.

The Cobra is...okay, the only people excited about the Cobra, it seems, are S&W guys. It's a pig. The bobbed hammer is lipstick to try and move a mediocre gun that isn't selling. Even the examples they brought to SHOT were poorly-finished.

Kimber and Taurus are making 6 shot revolvers the same size as K-frames. The Colt Cobra is only a bit larger. I have a 7 shot Taurus 617 that weighs 28 ounces. It has an excellent trigger. It has replaced my 3" 686 Plus in my carry rotation. If the Taurus Model 856 has the same trigger as the Taurus 85, then it will have a better trigger than all of my J-frames.

While my S&W revolvers are beautiful, I am not carrying any of them. I am carrying a Kimber and a Taurus. And anybody who says S&W has better quality, they need to read the dozens of threads posted by very unhappy S&W owners posted in just the last several months.

Think of it -- S&W developed the J-frames and the K-frames a million years ago (I exaggerate). Now, apparently, they are carved in stone. S&W seems incapable of exploring fundamental change. To their credit many years ago they tried to produce a small 6 shot C-frame but they abandoned it. Now Kimber and Taurus have picked up the ball.

S&W needs to rethink revolvers or they are going to lose a significant chunk of the concealed carry market.

 

[diggler1833]

What will S&W do going forward to combat the Kimber K6s and even the new Cobra with the bobbed hammer? Maybe nothing, but I wonder if they are working on something? I personally would like to see a Performance Center model 66 that has a bobbed hammer or even a version of a 6 shot J frame of some sort. I have to imagine that they are working on something. If anyone knows of any news, please share.

Not over-clocking the barrels would be a good start...

 

[Muss Muggins]

What will S&W do going forward to combat the Kimber K6s and even the new Cobra with the bobbed hammer?

I've held a K6. No reason for S&W to be worried . . .

 

[slabside2]

Going forward...S+W should be going backwards when they still produced a decent quality gun and didn't have to be shipped back to the factory cabillion times.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I have not had to send my Smiths back even one time. As much as people complain about Taurus I find it humorous that taurus quality is being lauded over Smith. But with that said I just picked up a new old stock Taurus 82 yesterday. I am thrilled with the gun so far, perfect finish, tight lockup, and three inch offhand 10 yard groups with no break in.

Any gun can have complaints, good Lord I have heard plenty about Kimbers micro compact 1911's. The truth is that people tend to complain more than they praise.

I have had to send one gun back, a Charter Arms Pitbull. I got it back repaired in less than 2 weeks, for me no big deal. Now if it was my only gun then it might be. But how many of us here have only one gun for carry?

 

[Telecaster]

Ruger is finding ways to stuff more rounds in their revolvers.

S&W changed the M&P 9C to apparently compete with the Glock 19.

Ya never know...

 

[Green Frog]

I've got a bunch of great ideas for "new" revolvers and was thinking about describing a couple of them on this thread, but then I had an epiphany... I'm like a guy in the 1920s with a bunch of great ideas for improved buggy whips, sealing wax, and celluloid shirt collars. Great ideas whose time unfortunately has passed. No, I won't give up my own revolvers, but I won't be looking to any of the current companies for revolver innovations. Sad but true.

Froggie

 

[Protocall_Design]

You might try putting some of your ideas in the Wish List forum. Who knows, maybe someone at S&W or an aftermarket company might just act on one or two. Revolvers are still relevant to quite a few people.