What will S&W do going forward to combat the Kimber K6s and even the new Cobra with the bobbed hammer? Maybe nothing, but I wonder if they are working on something? I personally would like to see a Performance Center model 66 that has a bobbed hammer or even a version of a 6 shot J frame of some sort. I have to imagine that they are working on something. If anyone knows of any news, please share.
S&W's Revolvers going forward
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The Chief was perfect when introduced. It's a belly gun. Its intent is quickly to battery in a close encounter of the deadly kind. A good guy would have to be extremely knowledgeable of survivor tactics and lucky to remain vertical were he to suffer the grave misfortune of confronting two bad guys while armed with a belly gun. In essence, The Chief, like all belly guns, is a one bad guy gun.
I know that a good quality semi is tactically superior to my beloved Chiefs. If I lived in a gang plagued city, I'd screw the whole idea of a compact handgun. I'd go with an excellent, full-size 1911-A1, which was designed by JMB as an offensive battle handgun, in an excellent holster such as Blackpoint Tactical's Leather Wing, and at least two spare mags. It would be loaded with 230 grain ammo. I'd be good with 230 grain ball, but I'd probably use 230 grain Fed HST Tactical.
As far as belly guns go, The Chief is The Chief of belly guns.
I know that a good quality semi is tactically superior to my beloved Chiefs. If I lived in a gang plagued city, I'd screw the whole idea of a compact handgun. I'd go with an excellent, full-size 1911-A1, which was designed by JMB as an offensive battle handgun, in an excellent holster such as Blackpoint Tactical's Leather Wing, and at least two spare mags. It would be loaded with 230 grain ammo. I'd be good with 230 grain ball, but I'd probably use 230 grain Fed HST Tactical.
As far as belly guns go, The Chief is The Chief of belly guns.
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I would be pretty interested in a K frame in the 242Ti mold (obviously a 6 shooter vs 7 for the L frame). Wouldn't even have to be a .357, .38 +P is plenty in what would certainly be a sub-20oz gun.
With this said, IMO S&W does not have a recent track record of reacting to what other companies put out or what's "hot" at the moment.
With this said, IMO S&W does not have a recent track record of reacting to what other companies put out or what's "hot" at the moment.
bigggbbruce
Member
I'd accept a better quality control of current product.
Barrels in line with the frame, not over- or under-torqued.
Willyboy
Member
S&W new models
I think S&W has too many models and variations already. As a former
production-inventory control person I always thought working at S&W must be quite challenging. Others are right: improve the QC on current production
and customers won't be looking elsewhere. Willyboy
I think S&W has too many models and variations already. As a former
production-inventory control person I always thought working at S&W must be quite challenging. Others are right: improve the QC on current production
and customers won't be looking elsewhere. Willyboy
Blueinterceptor
Member
I'd like to see S&w make some of their classics again. Maybe 1 production line a year. Of their blued guns. Model 19,13,66 etc
2 1/2-4" versions. Small amounts 1000 pcs or so would sell out
2 1/2-4" versions. Small amounts 1000 pcs or so would sell out
Being an old guy, I don't like unnecessary changes in life, so I'll continue to use my S&W 642, or my old Colt Cobra. Both are great guns.
Speaking to the Smith reps at the past several SHOT Shows, the IL is here to stay.
Walkingwolf
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My first pocket gun as a LEO was a Colt Cobra. It was not a good pocket gun in uniform pants, where the five shot J frame was just right. IWB carry I preferred a full sized 1911, or a 4 inch K frame.
The real competition for the two firearms you listed is the Ruger LCR in 327. Smith at one time sold a j frame 327 but for some reason they dropped it.
I haven't bought a new S&W product in over a decade (1911 & it's an excellent gun) and an S&W revolver in 30 years. So I'm clueless of its quality control. Can you please elaborate on, "...better quality control of current product."
Because some have forgotten:
This is merely a guess: handgun profit is in semis. My guess is they're less costly to produce. Demand seems to be for modestly priced semis that are reliable and sail smoothly for CCW work. There's an economic reason S&W's Shield line is popular. That is a neutral statement. I don't own a Shield.
As Walkingwolf correctly posted, a full-size 1911-A1 is very easy to conceal. Its only minus is its fully loaded weight. And Walkingwolf s right about the Chief as a cop second gun. While I've never carried a second while 10-8, I'd bet that The Chief ruled the second gun on-duty cop gun. And yes, outta reverence, I did refer to the Chief's Special as The Chief, a proper noun clause because there is only one Chief of belly guns.
I love my Chiefs. I'm sure that nostalgia has a lot to do with my affinity for The Chief. I'd give a body part to own a copy of the first run of The Chief. But my money's on they're all being displayed in law enforcement museums and agencies, and that probably as it should be.
I'm realistic. My P239 .40 is a much better bad guy carry gun, which is darn near a non sequitur because I couldn't tell you the last time I've carried.
If I were to buy another dedicated self-defense handgun, it'd probably be a Shield, which says a lot coming from a committed Sig dude.
I do think revolvers will continue to be produced; however, I'd expect supply to shrink due to demand for semis.
My guess is a 5-round .44 Special on a K Frame would do well; something like the Bulldog. If that's not doable, put a rim on the .40 S&W, and develop a 5-round K Frame for it. A 180 grain .40 S&W bullet has demonstrable efficacy.
Overall, I'd expect to see more demand for the Shield than revolvers for CCW work.
As Walkingwolf correctly posted, a full-size 1911-A1 is very easy to conceal. Its only minus is its fully loaded weight. And Walkingwolf s right about the Chief as a cop second gun. While I've never carried a second while 10-8, I'd bet that The Chief ruled the second gun on-duty cop gun. And yes, outta reverence, I did refer to the Chief's Special as The Chief, a proper noun clause because there is only one Chief of belly guns.
I love my Chiefs. I'm sure that nostalgia has a lot to do with my affinity for The Chief. I'd give a body part to own a copy of the first run of The Chief. But my money's on they're all being displayed in law enforcement museums and agencies, and that probably as it should be.
I'm realistic. My P239 .40 is a much better bad guy carry gun, which is darn near a non sequitur because I couldn't tell you the last time I've carried.
If I were to buy another dedicated self-defense handgun, it'd probably be a Shield, which says a lot coming from a committed Sig dude.
I do think revolvers will continue to be produced; however, I'd expect supply to shrink due to demand for semis.
My guess is a 5-round .44 Special on a K Frame would do well; something like the Bulldog. If that's not doable, put a rim on the .40 S&W, and develop a 5-round K Frame for it. A 180 grain .40 S&W bullet has demonstrable efficacy.
Overall, I'd expect to see more demand for the Shield than revolvers for CCW work.
GTBL: If S&W was getting ready to release something new and wonderful, chances are we would have caught wind of it at SHOT Show. As for "Wishes", we have a special section for posting them, which I hope, S&W monitors to gauge which way the wind is blowing. 
Dieseltech56
Member
And all that does is help the sale of their used revolvers. S&W benefits none from which
Not always
You missed the story of the NYC police officer that was a customer at a beauty salon. Three felons attempt a robbery. Drawing her Chief from under her cape, 3 shots, 3 stopped robbers. That said. If I had to go to a place more expecting trouble I'd want more gun. For me it be my LC9s. 7 or 9shots and a faster reload
Too bad!! Lucky I have enough guns that there is nothing they could make that would entice me to buy a new one!!
And I still wonder why they seem glued to the IL in the revolvers, but have none in their autos???
Fide686
Member
I looked at one of the new Cobras. Not near the quality of new Smiths. The machining was rougher, and the trigger DA was not good.
She was very, very, beyond extremely lucky. Were the robbers armed?
I know of an armed robbery in LA County that didn't turn out well for an off-duty cop who was armed with a Chief.
Unless another person or she was in imminent peril, I'd of advised her to be a live witness. It's never a wise idea to initiate a gunfight that might result in a shootout that is the cause of another's death...unless there is no other option. The felony murder rule exonerates the good guy for murder of another and inculpates the suspects. In fact, the surviving suspects can be charged under the felony murder rule for the death of a suspect killed by a cop or a good guy.
Finally, it's logical fallacy to cite an exception to any rule in attempt to invalidate it. Always go with the rule, not an exception to it.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Packing in the bad areas. My 1911 race pistol with 8 magazines should do it. For a revolver the s&w m58 41mag, 4" barrel would work.
But right now if I was going to shop for a new ccw revolver the 4.2" barrel Redhawk would work. Eight shots.
But right now if I was going to shop for a new ccw revolver the 4.2" barrel Redhawk would work. Eight shots.
SO CONFUSING!!!!! Y'all bounced all over the board without answering the precise questions!
Not to even begin to mention that Tom S/Mod sent a good reminder, the OP asked these two questions:
Then he added what he'd like to see. But, leaving that out, the answer to the questions is, from my contacts with S&W and that includes their reps and sample guns at the Safari Club expo I recently attended, mostly nothing. I think the answer is simple. Or answers.
First, S&W makes so many revolvers (just check their online catalog) it doesn't seem necessary for them to "do something" to "combat" the Kimber K6 line or the new Colt Cobra line.
Next, and maybe it's just me, I don't find the K6 all that attractive. Even the two-tone version is kind of borderline ugly to my eyes. It does hold six rounds - that is its one advantage to my way of thinking. The concealed hammer is not news, of course, but it does aid concealment.
The Colt Cobra is obviously better looking than the K6 but it, too, has only one advantage - 6 rounds.
S&W has three current J frame models available in this "belly gun" world. The obviously believe they are sufficiently competitive in the concealed carry market that they don't need a super small six shooter and they are probably right.
The one error I think S&W makes in their present HUGE line of revolvers is the next step up from super small - a round butt K frame with a 2" or shorter barrel. The gun I picture is a modification of the old DAO Model 64. Bobbed hammer, DAO as noted, all steel or maybe an Airweight frame. But think of the variations on that theme - a shrouded hammer like a Model 638 or concealed hammer like a Model 642 and since the 642 comes without an internal lock so could this K frame. (The IL is of no consequence to me but to those who care this would be nice for S&W to accomplish.)
So, if they're not working on anything new in their present revolver line at S&W, I wish they would!
Not to even begin to mention that Tom S/Mod sent a good reminder, the OP asked these two questions:
Then he added what he'd like to see. But, leaving that out, the answer to the questions is, from my contacts with S&W and that includes their reps and sample guns at the Safari Club expo I recently attended, mostly nothing. I think the answer is simple. Or answers.
First, S&W makes so many revolvers (just check their online catalog) it doesn't seem necessary for them to "do something" to "combat" the Kimber K6 line or the new Colt Cobra line.
Next, and maybe it's just me, I don't find the K6 all that attractive. Even the two-tone version is kind of borderline ugly to my eyes. It does hold six rounds - that is its one advantage to my way of thinking. The concealed hammer is not news, of course, but it does aid concealment.
The Colt Cobra is obviously better looking than the K6 but it, too, has only one advantage - 6 rounds.
S&W has three current J frame models available in this "belly gun" world. The obviously believe they are sufficiently competitive in the concealed carry market that they don't need a super small six shooter and they are probably right.
The one error I think S&W makes in their present HUGE line of revolvers is the next step up from super small - a round butt K frame with a 2" or shorter barrel. The gun I picture is a modification of the old DAO Model 64. Bobbed hammer, DAO as noted, all steel or maybe an Airweight frame. But think of the variations on that theme - a shrouded hammer like a Model 638 or concealed hammer like a Model 642 and since the 642 comes without an internal lock so could this K frame. (The IL is of no consequence to me but to those who care this would be nice for S&W to accomplish.)
So, if they're not working on anything new in their present revolver line at S&W, I wish they would!
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comiskeybum
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Here's the thing......the K6s isnt a true J frame competitor. Its bigger in every dimension. Does it still fit in pocket? Yeah.....barely. But they are not tru competitors in my eye, especially with the outrageous price they carry. Kimber would be smart to come out with with .38spl only models around 500 bucks. Profile the size down just a tad to truly compete with Smith.
To me, nothing beats a smith revolver and there are very few revolvers that are not smith that i have any interest in owning. Kimber isnt one of them.
To me, nothing beats a smith revolver and there are very few revolvers that are not smith that i have any interest in owning. Kimber isnt one of them.
Walkingwolf
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I have no desire for a Kimber, but unlike others I have no reservations on new Smiths. The only pause I have with a new Smith is not the IL, it is the slightly longer four inch barrel. I like the older duty holsters, the Jordan in particular. That extra length interferes with seating in the holster. Same problem with Rugers 4.2 inch barrel makes them unusable in a four inch plugged holster.
Ashlander
Member
S&W is letting the competition run loose in the 6 shot small revolver market. My Kimber K6s fits perfectly in a Galco holster I bought for my model. Its factory trigger is worlds above any J frame I have owned (5 off the top of my head). Of course, there's also the new Colt.
Now too Taurus is replacing it's Model 85 (essentially its 5 shot J-frame) with a new 6 shot Model 856 that's the size of a Kimber K6s. The Taurus rep at Shot Show 18 said it was for practical purposes the same size as the 85 (the cylinder on the 856 is only .05" wider and the 856 is actually a fraction of an ounce lighter). The MSRP is $329 for matt blued and $349 for matt stainless.
I have a couple recently made Taurus revolvers and they are excellent. I know they have not always been that way, but nowadays CNC machinery in Brazil apparently works just as well as CNC machinery here in America.
Now too Taurus is replacing it's Model 85 (essentially its 5 shot J-frame) with a new 6 shot Model 856 that's the size of a Kimber K6s. The Taurus rep at Shot Show 18 said it was for practical purposes the same size as the 85 (the cylinder on the 856 is only .05" wider and the 856 is actually a fraction of an ounce lighter). The MSRP is $329 for matt blued and $349 for matt stainless.
I have a couple recently made Taurus revolvers and they are excellent. I know they have not always been that way, but nowadays CNC machinery in Brazil apparently works just as well as CNC machinery here in America.
And here I thought the Kimber and Colt were their response to Smith still selling lots of small J-frame revolvers!!!!!
"Hey; look over here, we've got short barrelled revolver too...... and look ours hold 6 rounds!!!!
1911s are still selling after 107 years and today every Gun company builds one...... small Smith and Ruger revolvers are selling so other companies are looking for a piece of the market...
I'm old school so not fond of the "lock" and the new hammer..... but hey things change.........but for me if I'm dealing with the size of a 6 shot cylinder ..... give me a 3" barrel to go with it!!!!!!
"Hey; look over here, we've got short barrelled revolver too...... and look ours hold 6 rounds!!!!
1911s are still selling after 107 years and today every Gun company builds one...... small Smith and Ruger revolvers are selling so other companies are looking for a piece of the market...
I'm old school so not fond of the "lock" and the new hammer..... but hey things change.........but for me if I'm dealing with the size of a 6 shot cylinder ..... give me a 3" barrel to go with it!!!!!!
More Charterarmish.
S&W has recently come out with a new model 66 from the Performance center. I also recently bought a model 8-shot 627 Performance Revolver in 357 with two sets of grips with it. It is a N frame model which is extremely accurate with adjustable factory sights on the rear and the body done in the Matte Stainless finish. The price hurt a bit but its a beautiful gun to shoot with a very sweet trigger on it.
Reborn -
I don't know why S&W didn't reintroduce, in the new "Classic" line, the Model 19 in the various barrel lengths. I'm scratching my head over that one.
I don't know why S&W didn't reintroduce, in the new "Classic" line, the Model 19 in the various barrel lengths. I'm scratching my head over that one.
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