Second American

[jleiper]

This revolver was referred to me from my Russian Revolvers web site. I am trying to get opinions on it. The "story" is that it was picked up at the Custer battle site and passed down. I have advised the owner that it seems unlikely and to get a factory letter for it.



more pics
Joe

 

[jleiper]

more pics


Opinions?
Joe

 

[glowe]

It would take dozens of wagons to carry off all the supposed Little Bighorn firearms picked up after the battle. A couple things make me believe that it would be very unusual to find a Model 3 Second Model from an 1876 battlefield. The government issued Model 3s were the First Model revolvers and the 2nd Model would have been a private purchase. Schofields were the only other US government purchased revolver used in that period. It would be unlikely that the Lakota and Cheyenne would have got hold of a Model 3 2nd that would have been only a couple of years old, let alone have access to 44 American cartridges, but there are reports of the Indians using Smith & Wessons. I do not believe there are reports on what caliber those S&Ws were?

Anything is possible, but without irrefutable documentation or original chain of custody, it should not be advertised as a Little Bighorn battle weapon.

 

[Brian in SLC]

Interesting to note...that 4 brass cases were recovered on the Custer battlefield and based on firing pin strikes, were fired in 3 different pistols. S&W American .44 caliber cases.

Reference: Archaeological Insights Into the Custer Battle.

 

[new2S&W]

Brian, you beat me to the punch. Those three casings are why I'm trying to get a shell casing fired from my 1st model American to see if they match what is on file. Last I heard everything is in storage temporarily while they refurbish the museum.

 

[steelslaver]

The chances that the Sioux or Cheyenne left a gun are slim, the chances that the troops that followed left one are thinner. The chances that an old time cowboy would tell a bit of a tall tale are pretty good. But, then with the chases and 3 actual battle sites, Custer's, Benteen's and Reno's, who can really say. Things were a bit hectic for everybody that day.

Interesting stuff does happen in eastern MT. Once when we were kids going across an old bridge on the Tongue river by Miles City we saw a gun laying in the river. An older kid waded out and got it. It was a trap door Springfield carbine.

 

[new2S&W]

The only reason I think there may be a connection is the gun was found in my grandfather's possessions when he died in Canada in 1967. He was not a gun owner but did have Indian tenants in houses he rented out in Saskatchewan. He was known to barter for rent money and it is presumed to come from one of these. As you know, many Sioux fled to Canada after the battle to avoid the reservations. It's a stretch, I know, but definitely possible.

 

[glowe]

. . . As you know, many Sioux fled to Canada after the battle to avoid the reservations. It's a stretch, I know, but definitely possible.

You can add that one to the pile of maybes, but proof will likely never be found. You have your grandfather's Model 3, 1st and that is good enough in my book.

 

[opoefc]

Per personal correspondence from staff at the Nat'l Park Service, LBH Battlefield, the recovered .44 American cases were all from Indian positions and represented 4 revolvers. Whether these revolvers were S&Ws, no one knows but we can presume so. Close serial numbers to the poster's gun were all shipped to MWR in first 6 mos. of 1874. Plus, some guns shipped at this time period had US Military proofs although they were not made for any US Gov't contract, but S&W hired Springfield Armory inspectors to proof the these guns hoping to secure foreign military orders. If fired cases from the posters gun could be forensically compared to cases at the Park Service, and there's a match, it would validate the provenance. If not, it's just another " gun story" Ed.

 

[stanmerrell]

Sucker

Call me a sucker, but I love this story and have a feeling it's true. Either way, that is a cool gun and holster.

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

Call me a sucker, but I love this story and have a feeling it's true. Either way, that is a cool gun and holster.

I'm with stanmerrell... it's a cool story with just enough "what ifs" to be valid. Besides, it certainly plays in with the romance of the Old West and Custer's last stand... [emoji1303][emoji41][emoji1303]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[steelslaver]

Well the guns from the event did go somewhere. Now that the part about renting to Sioux in Canada comes into the picture it does become more possible. The first post left me with thinking somebody had found it at the site a while after the event. I am sure the victors of the fight didn't leave many guns behind. Gun's story is possible, but lots of maybes. Great old gun with a great story, no matter what.

I grew up not far from the battle field, my great uncle owned and operated a bar near the Cheyenne and my step mother was a bartender there for years. Spend a lot of time on the rez and one of my brothers lives just across the Tongue river from the rez and knows lots of Cheyennes. Have heard some interesting Custer stories. The Cheyennes look at the world, life and history a lot different than most whites.