Serious question on recoil.

Straightshooter2

Straightshooter2

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Three years ago, I had quite extensive right shoulder surgery. What started out as a simple 45 minute rotator cuff repair ended up 2 1/2 hours with scraping the underside of the bone because of calcium deposits, trimming ligaments that had frayed and taking care of a highly inflamed shoulder joint. Just to give you an idea of how bad it was, it was 2 1/2 years before I could even sleep on my right side. Bad enough that I had to sell my Garand, my highly customized 03-A3 Springfield that would drop a deer like you hit them in the head with a hammer. Along with the 30-06's, I sold my Model 94 30-30 and my 942 Remington Woodsmaster. Believe me, I DON'T want to pull the trigger on anything .30 caliber.

So here's my question for the huge knowledge base of this forum. I'm looking for the least recoil in a rifle that can still take a deer (legally). Sure a headshot from a .22LR will take a deer but it is highly illegal in Georgia. What I'm looking for is a rifle that won't leave a deer dead in the field and me in the deer stand eating narcotics because my shoulder is on fire. What is the recoil like on a 25-06 or such. Especially since I have a LARGE amount of 30-06 brass. BTW, my Woodsmaster was a semi auto .243 and that was still too much. I prefer a bolt gun for the field (yes I know more recoil). How about a 22-250)

Am I basically in a Catch-22 situation. To take a deer legally do I need something with some recoil and to do it without recoil I would be illegal? I would appreciate ANY input.

Oh, and before anyone suggests it, I CANNOT shoot left handed. I can barely scratch my posterior left handed.

Thanks,
CW
 
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Rifle weight could be a help. Some of the heavy barrelled varmint guns in 22 hornet have the recoil of a .22 mag.
 
If I were in your position I'd start shooting left handed. With practice in can be done and it's not that hard to learn. The only other option that comes to me is a muzzle loader in something like a 45 caliber, with enough mass in the gun they can have a fairly mild recoil that is more of a push than a punch.
However, if a 30-30 is too much I really think your only option is shooting left handed.
 
How about trying a lever in a pistol caliber?

Marlin makes a nice one in .357 and I used a 94 Winchester in 45 long colt for SASS matches years ago.

Shoot all day long without pain.
 
A .243 Winchester to me is very mild and is quite adequate for deer. I know some who use a .223. With the .223 I'm inclined to think that well placed broadside shots would be preferred.
 
I am right-handed. However only my left-eye works. So, I shoot left-handed. In 1985 I bought a Rem. 700LH in .30-06 Springfield. This same rifle is available in .270 Winchester and 7mm Rem. Magnum. My rifle has been outstanding producing MOA or less groups with factory and handloaded ammunition. With modest loads recoil is of not concern. Loaded heavy it will handle anything in North America. For the nasty stuff that can bite, claw, chew... I'd just load it with some nice black-tipped AP... i.e., the stuff that makes cover into concealment. I would also suggest you look at a M-1 Garand. I have several that I have bought through the CMP. They are superb in every possible respect. My first Service Grade rifle routinely averages 96-97 at 100 yds. from a standard prone position. Of the bench it never leaves the 10 ring. I have used M-1 rifles for deer hunting on numerous occasions. They are outstanding. If you wish to mount a rifle scope, it is a simple matter to replace the rear handguard with a base (AMEGA, etc.) and then mount a extended eye-relief scope. It is a very fast easy to use set-up for hunting. With a low-power scope it is ideal for heavy cover where fast repeat shots might be required. With a higher power or variable power scope, it works very well for longer more deliberate shots. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.
 
I am left handed but right eye dominant. I can't do ANYTHING right handed. Years back I forced myself to start shooting from my right shoulder and now it is as natural a thing as if I was a righty. It CAN be done, it just takes practice.
 
If you cant handle 243, I doubt 25-06 would be doable. Possibly 7mm-08, but it will be close to 243. If your interested I have bolt guns in 25-06 and 250 Savage I could meet up with you and let you shoot. Then you'll know if those calibers are tolerable. PM me if your interested.
 
I've always found the 6.5 Arisaka to have very mild recoil. Which makes me think of all the 6.5 Swedes that were imported a few years ago. I guess a bolt action 30-30 would be too obvious a choice?
 
Get yourself a heavy barreled AR or an M1 carbine and some 5 shot mags.

I've got a 20" HBAR A2 rifle with a 1-9 twist barrel...and it's a tack driver with 62gr softpoints. The rifle weighs about 9 pounds...no recoil

The M1 carbine is a short range deal..but most deer hunting is too. has a bit more felt recoil than the AR..but not much.

So just what's legal in your state?
 
A now deceased friend of mine had extensive shoulder injuries from an accident. I don't know whether it was as bad as yours, but he suffered like hell from it and shooting HP rifles or shotguns were out of the question. He bought a lever action .44 Magnum for a brush gun. I seem to remember it was a Marlin...maybe a model 39? That seemed to work well for him.

He later had an Ithaca damascus double barrel SxS shotgun customized, lined for .357 Maximum. It will fire .38, .357 Mag and .357 Maximum for bigger game. I bought it from him before he passed away and it sat in my safe for years. It sat there so long, I even forgot it was chambered for the .357 Max until another forum member was kind enough to send me a casing to chamber. It has become my favorite all around rifle. The recoil is almost non existent. The .357 Maximum is mild recoil, but a little more than the magnum and louder. Downside...it's heavy, over 11 lbs. Hope you feel better and find a solution. Good luck this season!

Cheers;
Lefty
 
I use a .250 Savage. Recoil is mild but I am not sure it is less than you got with the .243.
There are some .30 caliber wildcats made on the .223 case that might be lighter recoil.

Can you use .223 in your state? Some big bucks have been taken with it in my area. It wouldn't be my first choice but it might work with careful shot placement.
 
I've shot a dozen or so whitetails with the .222 Rem. and it did just fine. All shots were at 40-75 yards and to the heart/lung area. But hand loads are a must with any of the .22 center fire cartridges and bullet selection is critical. You'll want to keep muzzle velocity as high as accuracy allows and keep your shots to under 100 yards. The light .22 caliber bullet depends on shock to kill and needs high velocity at contact to do so. After 100 yards they start lose velocity rapidly. Also, most .22 cal factory loads are made for varmint shooting and are thin skinned for rapid expansion but there are heavier jacketed bullets available for the hand loader. For deer, I use Sierra's 55 gr spitzer and load to a muzzle velocity of just over 3000 fps. The Sierra bullets held up well and even went through both shoulders of one young buck at about 50 yards. Dropped him like a ton of bricks. The .223 and 22-250 cases should work even better as you can up the velocity. But don't even try to take a shot through brush, they just don't cut it as a brush buster!
The 6.5 Swede is my favorite deer cartridge. It's a great caliber but if you have problems with a 243 it ain't gonna work for you. Have you tried using a shoulder pad? I know from experience that there is a whale of a difference in felt recoil when shooting my 30-06 or 6.5x55 while wearing a T-shirt or all decked out in winter hunting togs, which is a thick Woolrich jacket plus three layers of clothing underneath!
John
 
I found a recoil calculator that may help you. I'm a data-driven type of guy....

Recoil Calculator at HuntAmerica.com

I ran an example with an 8 pound rifle in .44 mag and the felt recoil calculated at 5 pounds. Not bad.

You can play with this and compare loads you used that hurts to other loads, and maybe get a good WAG for a rifle/round combo that could work without a bunch of actual testing-ouch.

Best of luck to you.
 
brucev said:
I am right-handed. However only my left-eye works. So, I shoot left-handed. In 1985 I bought a Rem. 700LH in .30-06 Springfield. This same rifle is available in .270 Winchester and 7mm Rem. Magnum. My rifle has been outstanding producing MOA or less groups with factory and handloaded ammunition. With modest loads recoil is of not concern. Loaded heavy it will handle anything in North America. For the nasty stuff that can bite, claw, chew... I'd just load it with some nice black-tipped AP... i.e., the stuff that makes cover into concealment. I would also suggest you look at a M-1 Garand. I have several that I have bought through the CMP. They are superb in every possible respect. My first Service Grade rifle routinely averages 96-97 at 100 yds. from a standard prone position. Of the bench it never leaves the 10 ring. I have used M-1 rifles for deer hunting on numerous occasions. They are outstanding. If you wish to mount a rifle scope, it is a simple matter to replace the rear handguard with a base (AMEGA, etc.) and then mount a extended eye-relief scope. It is a very fast easy to use set-up for hunting. With a low-power scope it is ideal for heavy cover where fast repeat shots might be required. With a higher power or variable power scope, it works very well for longer more deliberate shots. HTH. Sincerely. brucev.
Click to expand...

This is the EXACT situation that I was faced with several years ago. I lost an eye due to a stupid accident, and was forced to change over to shooting left handed. It was not a hard adjustment to make, just a lot of practice. Even carrying the gun had to change. Go to the range and try it out. Believe me, recoil will be no more of a problem than it was before your surgery.
 
I'd think about a CZ in 7.62X39mm.
Not much recoil in those guns and good deer gun out to medium ranges.
JM$.02.

Rule 303
 
Howdy

Hi straightshooter,
I had a serious shoulder/cuff surgery done in June. It was a tendon torn plum free and repair required a removal of a lot of bone and extra work.
I have seen two very good doctors in the St. Louis area and both expect me to recover but tell me it could be a year. My shoulder is still weak and sore.
Recently I was asked to work up a load for a buddy for a new barrel that was put on his 22-250
Dennis has property that allows him to shoot long distances and likes his loads on the warm side. I ran several different types of powder and bullets up to 60 grains at near max or max out of his medium weight 22-250.
It was noticeable but not too bad. I was shooting from a bench in a t-shirt and fired 50-60 rounds over three days.
I think the combo of hunting clothes and a 22-250 might suit you.
I think Stevie might be on to something too.
Good luck
Mike
 
I'm in a similar situation. Right shoulder shot and my right elbow along with it. I had to change to the left shoulder for long arms. I kept my lever guns and sold the bolt guns. Most of my rifle shooting now is a Smith MP 15 Sport. It works well for me. The only problem was the bad taste of all the crow I had to eat after badmouthing ARs for forty years.:)

If recoil is the only issue, you might want to consider a 260 Rem in an AR platform. I shot one last summer that a friend had put together for his daughter who suffered a neck injury a few years ago and now needs to keep recoil at a very low level. It was built on a DPMS lower with a custom upper with an excellent muzzle brake. I think the break was from Vandenberg Custom. The recoil was about the same as a 223, but the pulse seemed to be spread out over a longer time.

The 260 Rem is a great but seldom encountered cartridge. Recoil in just about any platform is less than a 7-08, yet its performance is very similar.

Just a thought.
 
I have had 22-250 and didnt think it kicked. I have a ruger 7x57, for me it doesnt kick. 257 roberts, 25-35 if you can find one, 357 in my 92 copy isnt bad, 44 mag in same rifle is. Actualy there must be a dozzen I am leaveing out.
 
To reduce shoulder pain as much as possible, take the shoulder out of the shooting equation as much as possible. I suggest that you consider a hunting type handgun of some type. Either a Thompson Center Contender or a long barreled revolver.

Fitted with a scope and fired from an improvised rest, the Contender can be as usefully accurate as a rifle.
 
Sir,

You might try the 6.8 Remington SPC cartridge or maybe the old 6mm TCU in a heavy barreled bolt rifle with a Pachmyer decelerator recoil pad.

Best of luck in your search,

Su Amigo
Dave
 
I have a Browning BAR in .308 that has very little recoil. The gas operated action soaks up a large part of it. I believe that it is also made in .243 and would expect the recoil to be even less in that chambering.
 
Reduced Recoil ammuntion has been on the market for a while.
Limbsaver Recoil pad, properly installed.

Get the gun as heavy as practical.
 
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions. I think I'm going to get one of the strap on type shoulder pads. My wife is actually quite good with a sewing machine and it's possible she may even be able to thicken the padding with chair foam. She used to do this for me on the knee pads we used when we were unloading the bins of airplanes. Pulling suitcases and mail out of those low bins with aluminum floors was rough on the knees so we'll try it on the shoulder. Maybe I can work up to a nice caliber that thumps what it hits on the other end.

Thanks also for all the left handed suggestions. I'm sure in 10 years or so I could learn to do it but by then I would probably be too feeble to even hunt.

CW
 
I have a Ruger Mini-30 and it does not have a lot of recoil.

I also have a TC Contender Super 14 with a scoped .30-30 barrel. It also has a Choate rubber grip that reduces felt recoil. I load 125 JHP over 29gr Reloader-7 that will give 1/2" groups at 50 yds from a sand bag.
 
Sorry to hear about you pain.

I'm going through that with my legs, they're wanting to quit on me.

Good idea on the pad.

I knew a fella in Texas who killed all of his deer with a .218 Bee at about ten feet with neck shots.

I'd think something in the .22 centerfire class between the .223 and the .22-250, loaded with the correct bullet would do well on lung/heart/neck shots on whitetails.
 
As suggested earlier a 6.8 SPC in either an AR or a Mini 14 ranch format might work for you. The Recoil in the Mini 14 6.8 was just a little sharper than the .223 for me. Weight is about 6 lbs or so without a scope mounted so it's easy to carry too. I shoot left handed and had the same type of injury and surgery on my right shoulder. I too had to give up my .270 and .30-06 because the recoil was too painfull. The recoil jars your whole body not just the shoulder under the butt. I also don't miss the 8 and 9 lbs I had to carry.
Hope you feel better.

PS don't skimp on the physical therapy. It hurts but it's worth the effort.
 
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