Shield out of battery - time to revisit this issue

I just got my shield earlier this week and have not even shot it yet. I've read most of the posts concerning it failing to return to battery after doing a press check. IMHO there has been a lot of discussion but not much in solutions offered. I did some testing and what I observed with mine is it will return to battery with a chambered round and the magazine removed or with an empty magazine inserted. It will not return to battery with a chambered round and the magazine inserted with a round in it. My question is why does the round in the magazine prevent it from returning to battery? If that were figured out it seems to me the problem goes away. Maybe I'm being to simplistic.
 
Buy a damn revolver. Nit picking on a non-problem seems to be a pastime on the internet. Also these internet safety freaks get on my nerves. I know of no-one who has been shot through their monitor watching a gun video. You shouldn't have any problem selling your shield for a profit.
 
greybeard43 said:
Buy a damn revolver. Nit picking on a non-problem seems to be a pastime on the internet. Also these internet safety freaks get on my nerves. I know of no-one who has been shot through their monitor watching a gun video. You shouldn't have any problem selling your shield for a profit.
Click to expand...

Yes, this whole thread has gotten really boring !!!
 
Yes, I can see that the rib on the bottom of the slide is rubbing on the bullet in the magazine. Is it supposed to do that or is there a clearance problem? My Glock or my Sig's don't rub like this.

I'm not wanting to reopen a "can of worms" here. I am looking for an honest answer.
 
Handgunner,

We're working on finding the solution. My Shield is at S&W now, I'll see what they did to it when it is returned.

This thread has become clouded a bit by people who feel a gun is okay to stay out of battery, then those people try to push their thoughts on others.

I won't carry a gun that stays out of battery when bumped. I also won't carry a gun that has a safety that is defective or moves to 'on' by itself. Or a gun that takes two primer strikes to fire sometimes.

For me, I want a gun that is 100% reliable, bumped or not.

If my Shield comes back and still stays OOB, it will be for sale. It's just not that big of a deal to me.

Now on a different note, I just got my new AR15 and it hangs out of battery BAD! Even without a shell in it. That doesn't bother me a bit, because it just isn't feasible that it would get bumped OOB when the bolt is enclosed.

There's a big difference.
 
The AR hangs OOB when gently closed, or when you trip the bolt release? You probably know there's a world of difference, but many reading this thread may not. ;)

Lost Lake said:
Handgunner,

We're working on finding the solution. My Shield is at S&W now, I'll see what they did to it when it is returned.

This thread has become clouded a bit by people who feel a gun is okay to stay out of battery, then those people try to push their thoughts on others.

I won't carry a gun that stays out of battery when bumped. I also won't carry a gun that has a safety that is defective or moves to 'on' by itself. Or a gun that takes two primer strikes to fire sometimes.

For me, I want a gun that is 100% reliable, bumped or not.

If my Shield comes back and still stays OOB, it will be for sale. It's just not that big of a deal to me.

Now on a different note, I just got my new AR15 and it hangs out of battery BAD! Even without a shell in it. That doesn't bother me a bit, because it just isn't feasible that it would get bumped OOB when the bolt is enclosed.

There's a big difference.
Click to expand...
 
JNewell said:
The AR hangs OOB when gently closed, or when you trip the bolt release? You probably know there's a world of difference, but many reading this thread may not. ;)
Click to expand...

Sorry. The AR hangs when the bolt is held back. Heck it stays all the way open if I slowly let it go from full lock back. :D Won't even strip a shell.

But that's no biggie. I don't carry my AR in a coat pocket or expect I could hit the locked bolt out of battery by dropping it or bumping it. ;)
 
If you bump the butt of an M16 with a full magazine on the ground, it will hang out of battery.
 
This thread has become clouded a bit by people who feel a gun is not okay to stay out of battery, then those people try to push their thoughts on others.;)
 
feelinlucky said:
This thread has become clouded a bit by people who feel a gun is not okay to stay out of battery, then those people try to push their thoughts on others.;)
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that your gun is unsafe if it stays out of battery!

I know mine is unsafe if it is OOB because it won't fire when I pull the trigger. ;)

This thread is to find the reason Shields stay OOB and remove that problem.

Mine will be back soon and we can go over the changes made by S&W. It will be up to individual Shield owners to decide if they want their Shield changed or not.
 
S&W is not going to fix or be able to fix this induced problem. It is just a problem of mechanics that a fully loaded magazine ( and we all know how hard it is to put in the last rounds in both the 7 or 8 rnd mag ) with the magazine spring stacked so tight fully loaded and inserted (which also takes some considerable force )into the gun. The top rounds in the mag have so much pressure of the bullet riding on the slide that if there is not the moving enertia of the slide as in normal pistol operation to overcome that resistance by slide mass and slide spring return pressure you will have this condition happening IF you induce the OOB. As the round count in the magazine decreases and the mag spring decreases tension the slide can overcome that pressure and not go OOB. Maybe if you had teflon bullets and the bottom of the slide was teflon coated or highly polished this induced OOB wouldn't happen. Maybe.
S&W is in no way ever going to correct this condition as it is just the nature of many semi auto guns with the shield being one of them. It would take a total redesign of the shield and you know S&W is not going to do that just for this induced condition. Guess you will be selling your shield but for me I will be keeping mine as it is not a problem for me. Those who sent in their shields to S&W for this are going to be disappointed I'm afraid.
As Charles Kuralt would always say at the end of his program " And That's The Way It Is "
Good luck.
 
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Thanks Sidewinder, but my Shield stays OOB with no magazine in it, so that rules out the mag spring tension issue.

And from my research I have found others who have had their Shield repaired and it no longer stays OOB, but so far none of them can tell me what S&W changed.

Hopefully we can revisit this in a couple of weeks and we have an answer.

Which makes me wonder: If there is something that can easily be done to change the Shield so it doesn't stay OOB if bumped, will you do it?
 
Lost Lake said:
Thanks Sidewinder, but my Shield stays OOB with no magazine in it, so that rules out the mag spring tension issue.

And from my research I have found others who have had their Shield repaired and it no longer stays OOB, but so far none of them can tell me what S&W changed.

Hopefully we can revisit this in a couple of weeks and we have an answer.

Which makes me wonder: If there is something that can easily be done to change the Shield so it doesn't stay OOB if bumped, will you do it?
Click to expand...

Sorry LL for my rush to judgement on your issue. Didn't realize that it was without a mag in the pistol. Hope you get some resolution on your issue. I did try it without the mag and while it does hang for a instant it will go into battery without touching it but with the mag in the gun it will hang OOB if I make it. Who knows that if they get enough wear on the slide rails and rail guides to really smooth them out it wouldn't hang OOB. Guess I should add that I do use a rail grease on my guides and rail but know lots of folks hate any grease anywhere on their guns.
Good Luck
 
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Thanks for the tip TS.

I tried grease, oil, Weaponshield, dry, you name it. I got it to the point where it will just barely hang open without a mag, but I don't carry it without a mag so I figure that test is a moot point.

I cycled the gun over 2,000 times, figuring something has to be wearing somewhere and maybe I could see it. Then I noticed the scratch / line / groove in my trigger bar and thought I'd ask S&W about it.

They just want the gun back, so I marked some parts and sent it in.

It's not a big deal with some people and I'm okay with that!

But what if they change the trigger bar out to a different design and it never hangs OOB again??? :confused:

It could happen! ;)
 
I think it may be the mag loaded with bullets rubbing on the slide
my shield stayed out of battery also

I took 2 bullets out of the mag, and it slide closed no problem
tried this multiple times

a full mag will do it more, than a mag 2 bullets less than full
 
Lost Lake said:
My Shield will hang out of battery after a press check. I don't like that....
Click to expand...

Lost Lake said:
... my Shield stays OOB with no magazine in it, so that rules out the mag spring tension issue. ...
Click to expand...

I'm not going back and re-reading the entire thread to find out, but did I miss something somewhere?

I'm really not trying to hassle you, but I have to ask. You do a press check with the magazine out?

Based on your very first post, I was under the impression that this problem you are experiencing occurred with a full mag in.
 
feelinlucky said:
I'm not going back and re-reading the entire thread to find out, but did I miss something somewhere?

I'm really not trying to hassle you, but I have to ask. You do a press check with the magazine out?
Click to expand...
No, he doesn't press check with an empty mag. Others stated that theirs only stayed OOB with a Full Mag, so he checked with an empty mag and it still hung OOB.

Based on your very first post, I was under the impression that this problem you are experiencing occurred with a full mag in.
Click to expand...
Initially... yes... but since people asked... :)

For the record, mine only hangs with a fully loaded, topped off mag (+1 condition). If the mag is out, or not topped off, it does not hang, so for me (like some others), the Super Stiff mag spring could be a contributing factor.

As mentioned in my 1st reply, I don't press check and (so far) I have not been able to bump it OOB. If a simple Buff of a couple parts did prove to eliminate the issue, I definitely have enough idle time on my hands to do a simple buff. :)
 
Lost Lake said:
Thanks for the tip TS.

I tried grease, oil, Weaponshield, dry, you name it. I got it to the point where it will just barely hang open without a mag, but I don't carry it without a mag so I figure that test is a moot point.

I cycled the gun over 2,000 times, figuring something has to be wearing somewhere and maybe I could see it. Then I noticed the scratch / line / groove in my trigger bar and thought I'd ask S&W about it.

They just want the gun back, so I marked some parts and sent it in.

It's not a big deal with some people and I'm okay with that!

But what if they change the trigger bar out to a different design and it never hangs OOB again??? :confused:

It could happen! ;)
Click to expand...

Since mine hangs with no mag as well, I am waiting for your results. 3300 rounds and greased rails makes no difference. Thank you Lost Lake for letting S&W decide.
 
Got my 9mm shield on Tuesday

mudman bob said:
Since mine hangs with no mag as well, I am waiting for your results. 3300 rounds and greased rails makes no difference. Thank you Lost Lake for letting S&W decide.
Click to expand...

Recognized the same issues y'all discuss upon re holstering inside a store w brand new stiff holster trying to find one I liked. Mine don't do it w the 8 rounder it will be back in battery by itself empty as well good to go. If I strip one round off the top of the 7 wich is extremely hard to push in I can't duplicate it either but a pressure check w one chamber or unchambered w fully loaded 7 rounder it is OOB every time w a pressure check. Gun has only 42 rounds through it not going to fly off the handle yet. But time will tell keep us posted guys my gun has a test round date of last month if that helps anyone as to smith fixing ones fresh off the assy line will update after 500 round mark full cleaning polishing and oilong!!
 
Just to add

I beleive the soul issue in MY gun obviously insufficient break in WAY to stiff of mag springs the mag moves up and down real hard every time the slide is cycled. And possibly faulty or under strength recoil spring mine just looks raggedy and its brand new would buy after market one if they make them otherwise love the pistol and hope to minimize this silly but potentialy serious issue not rly pressure test but w re holstering in an every day real world complacent situation and not holding the slide w my thumb just to make sure small issue but easy fix in my eyes but I shouldn't have to be the one to figure it out smith.....
 
Let's pose a couple of different questions;

(1) What are the scenarios where an OOB "in a real life" situation would occur ?


(2) In (1) above, has anyone been able to reproduce any of those scenarios and actually cause their Shield to go OOB ?


I can't cause my Shield to go OOB with re-holstering. Clearly a struggle with a bad guy grabbing the slide would cause it.. but then if it gets to that point we have other problems.

So, go for it.... Try with all your might to cause your Shield to go OOB, without actually pulling the slide back with your hand. Can you do it ?
 
Lost Lake

It going on two weeks that you sent your Shield in. Two weeks has been the normal turnaround time lately. Keep us posted of the results, when you get it back.

Bob
 
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Lost Lake,
Ditto what robkarrob said. I just bought a Shield. Haven't even picked it up yet. Whether it bothers you or not that the Shield doesn't return to battery it sure is nice to know. If mine does that it will make a difference on how I holster and draw it. Please let us know if S&W made any changes and what they were.
Len
 
Sorry guys, I was in Colorado doing some skiing since March 1st. Just got back and I see there is a message from S&W on my machine. I'll call first thing Monday morning and see what they say.

The skiing was really great! Vail, Breck, Keystone and Beaver Creek are where I go and they are getting lots of snow. We got over a foot while we were there!
I was able to get over 120,000 vertical in 5 days of skiing. One day I needed a day off after sampling microbrews the night before. Only fell once, just caught an edge and dropped a ski, not good on a black diamond run. :p

Just an update, sorry I haven't been around. Hopefully I can let you know something in a couple days.

And to highaltitude: I could see some guy grabbing me and me having to pull a gun maybe while he was on top of me (recent news has a story exactly like that) where I may have to push the gun into his body.

My Shield would easily go OOB.

Maybe the guy would sit up when he felt the gun.

Maybe he'd laugh when my gun wouldn't fire, then stab me a few times. :eek:

On second thought, no he wouldn't because I don't carry a gun that hangs OOB! ;)


I'm really interested to find out if S&W says they just touch filed a small little burr off the edge of a corner or something.... Just how many of you guys that swear a gun is supposed to stay out of battery will go ahead and fix the issue so it doesn't stay out of battery.... :confused:

Stay tuned.....
 
If the guns new, all that causes that is tightness from being not broke in, you need to clean the weapon really good before your first shooting it. Then put 500 rounds down the pipe, it will loosen up the slide to frame fit. If the guns bin shot alot change the recoil spring, problem solved.
 
It's been happening with Shields of all ages. I really don't think it's the spring though. While putting a stronger spring might force it back into battery a little better, I don't think it was the original problem. If the brakes are sticking on your car, putting a bigger engine in it could make you not notice the problem anymore, but didn't actually fix anything. I really suspect as stated before by a few, that it has something to do with the hump in the slide and it catching a little too much.
 
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