Hi:
Those who carry a short barrel 357 Magnum:
What load do you used ?
Those who carry a short barrel 357 Magnum:
What load do you used ?
Short Barrel .357 Magnum
- Thread starter jimmyj
- Start date
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Remington 125 grain sjhp.357 usually
Speer Gold Dot 125 .38 +P
Speer Gold Dot 135 .357 Mag short barrel
Remington Golden Saber .38 +P
Hornady Critical Defense FTX 125 .357 Mag
Would love some 145 gr Silver Tips if could find some.
Speer Gold Dot 135 .357 Mag short barrel
Remington Golden Saber .38 +P
Hornady Critical Defense FTX 125 .357 Mag
Would love some 145 gr Silver Tips if could find some.
Last edited:
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Big beautiful 145 grain Silvertips in a shiny Model 19.
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kthom
Member
I carry for the first five loads the Buffalo Bore 150 grain hardcast full wadcutter that give between 8 and 9 hundred fps in a short barrel. For my reloads, I carry either the .38 Special +P 135 grain bullet loaded for short barrels and/or the same loading in .357 mag, both made by Speer with the Gold Dot bullets. The Speer bullets are easier to quickly reload without fumbling compared to the full wads. But I am very fond of those BB full wads at the higher velocity as compared to target loadings with a 148 grain bullet. I have full confidence in them for personal protection with a .38/357 caliber. I carry a steel framed model 640-1 with a 2 1/8" barrel that will shoot all these cartridges. I have been reloading revolvers at speed since the late 60's and am very comfortable doing so, but in a hurry, I like the longer Gold Dots for my quick reloads. This is what I am comfortable with and confident with.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
145gr Winchester Silvertip ammo. It's very Accurate in my S&W M640.
OP
Isn't the 125 grain bullets "Supposed" to cause split forcing cones ??
Another Silvertip user here. Along with Federal American Eagle 158 gr. JSPs, they are the only .357 factory loads I try to keep on hand.
mgriffin
Member
Speer Gold Dot 135 .357 Mag short barrel. Product code 23917.
Short answer, no, there is more to that than just the bullet weight.
I carry Golden Saber 357 125 gr. Light to medium magnum load, obviously stronger than 38+P, but very manageable in my 649.
I will run these in my 66-8 for now, but I am in process of making my own short bbl 357 load with either 140 or 158 XTP.
Looking for over 1100 for the 158gr.
Pisgah
Member
jimmyj, this is one of those commonly-held beliefs that is based on a grain of truth but has been blown out of all proportion over the decades -- like a lot of the things "everyone knows" about guns and ammo.
There was a problem many years ago -- never common or widespread -- with a few S&W K-frame revolvers that were FED A HEAVY DIET OF 125 GR. JHP AMMO. The design of the revolver was eventually changed to address the issue.
Does this mean that your revolver will never suffer a forcing cone split? No, it can happen, and with just about any revolver. If you're planning on firing thousands and thousands of rounds on the range, I would choose a less-intense load. But if you're wanting what is maybe the best defensive round out there -- and this another generalized supposition based on a comparatively few samples -- then the 125 is the way to go, and the risk of hurting your gun is very small.
I just test fired some Remington Golden Saber 125 grain JHP yesterday and think I may go to it. It's not a full tilt load. In my 3" 60-15 I still had good shot to shot recovery but was obviously well above .38 special performance. Looking at the results in lucky gunners ballistics test I should get just above 1100 FPS. they showed expansion in both 2" & 4" guns at .62 with penetration running +/- 17".
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#357mag
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/#357mag
OP
While living in Tennessee I purchased a S&W Model 19 2.5". The cylinder was difficult yo open and close. I finally discovered the forcing cone was split. Lucky I was able to purchase a 2.5" Model 66 barrel from a Forum Member and had a gunsmith install it and then I had a "Pinto" Model 19.
Therefore I am somewhat concern on split forcing cones.
Therefore I am somewhat concern on split forcing cones.
jwk
Member
38 Special +P in the J frames due to recoil concerns.
In my Ruger SP101 and my 3" M65 any good 357 ammo works fine.
For a carry load I like Winchester white box 110 grain JHP bc it expands but shouldn't overpenetrate. When I was practicing a lot w the M65 I could put 3 doubletaps on a siloeuette target as fast as I could run it. 1st pair would be bottom of sternum, 2nd pair would be top of sternum and last pair would be about where the bridge of the nose would be.
This drill was walk toward the target and when shooting buddy would yell "gun" draw while moving and keep shooting while moving. Before anyone wants to call BS keep in mind my shooting buddy who is also a serious gun guy and me were shooting at least 500 rounds each of 357 every weekend. We would literally be at the range before daylight, we brought a cooler full of sandwiches and water and would shoot until dark. For me it was fun. For my buddy it may have saved his life.
He was in cop school at the time. His 1st week on the street while he was still riding w his Field Training Officer he was in a gunfight. Despite taking 2 rounds in the trauma plate of his vest and a round through the side of his neck he put 7 180 grain 40s through the guy who shot him all of which were either in the gut above the belt buckle or in the chest, all centerline of the body. This was a running gunfight in a tall brushy field after the shooter bailed out of the stolen car he wrecked during the chase.
The original 180 grain 40 load picked by the Bexar County Sheriff's Office didn't expand at at so it didn't stop the shooter. Shooter was a carjacker who was on drugs per autopsy blood work. The good news is that the shooter started missing when my buddy started shooting. Buddy walked up on the carjacker in the brush and got hit and went down. Guy took off and my buddy got up and went after him through the brush. It was at night. No lighting in area. Moonlight and muzzle flashes only. From recovered shell casings my buddy shot from 4 different places before the carjacker went down for good. Last shot was through the chest and penetrated through and took out the guy's spine. My buddy was shooting at muzzle flashes and the darker outline of the carjacker. They moved about 75 yards from where buddy initially hit until where it ended.
The best news is that I picked my buddy up at the hospital later that night and bought him breakfast on the way home.
Buddy begged the SO to let him carry his 686 after that. They said NO but did change issued ammo after a review. Full recovery. No PTSD issues later. My buddy said all he ever felt was angry bc the guy shot him. He wasn't happy about having to kill the guy but he didn't have a choice. Even after hitting the guy multiple times the carjacker was still up and moving and shooting at my buddy.
I saw all the paperwork on this bc I worked w my buddy's police union lawyer as co-counsel on the shooting review. At that time in Bexar County every shooting went to a review even when no question if a good shooting.
The end of the story is after my buddy got a commendation the SO issued him another vest that was crappy and out of date. About that time someone ran into buddy's car. Ins co didn't want to pay to fix his almost new car right. He hired me. Insisted on paying me so my fee was the cost of a properly fitting brand new 2nd Chance vest, a plate of tacos and the first cold beer w those tacos. My buddy retired last year. Fortunately while he did have to draw his service pistol a few times that was his only gunfight. I'm about to move back to San Antonio and after I get settled in he and I are heading to the coast fishing.
In my Ruger SP101 and my 3" M65 any good 357 ammo works fine.
For a carry load I like Winchester white box 110 grain JHP bc it expands but shouldn't overpenetrate. When I was practicing a lot w the M65 I could put 3 doubletaps on a siloeuette target as fast as I could run it. 1st pair would be bottom of sternum, 2nd pair would be top of sternum and last pair would be about where the bridge of the nose would be.
This drill was walk toward the target and when shooting buddy would yell "gun" draw while moving and keep shooting while moving. Before anyone wants to call BS keep in mind my shooting buddy who is also a serious gun guy and me were shooting at least 500 rounds each of 357 every weekend. We would literally be at the range before daylight, we brought a cooler full of sandwiches and water and would shoot until dark. For me it was fun. For my buddy it may have saved his life.
He was in cop school at the time. His 1st week on the street while he was still riding w his Field Training Officer he was in a gunfight. Despite taking 2 rounds in the trauma plate of his vest and a round through the side of his neck he put 7 180 grain 40s through the guy who shot him all of which were either in the gut above the belt buckle or in the chest, all centerline of the body. This was a running gunfight in a tall brushy field after the shooter bailed out of the stolen car he wrecked during the chase.
The original 180 grain 40 load picked by the Bexar County Sheriff's Office didn't expand at at so it didn't stop the shooter. Shooter was a carjacker who was on drugs per autopsy blood work. The good news is that the shooter started missing when my buddy started shooting. Buddy walked up on the carjacker in the brush and got hit and went down. Guy took off and my buddy got up and went after him through the brush. It was at night. No lighting in area. Moonlight and muzzle flashes only. From recovered shell casings my buddy shot from 4 different places before the carjacker went down for good. Last shot was through the chest and penetrated through and took out the guy's spine. My buddy was shooting at muzzle flashes and the darker outline of the carjacker. They moved about 75 yards from where buddy initially hit until where it ended.
The best news is that I picked my buddy up at the hospital later that night and bought him breakfast on the way home.
Buddy begged the SO to let him carry his 686 after that. They said NO but did change issued ammo after a review. Full recovery. No PTSD issues later. My buddy said all he ever felt was angry bc the guy shot him. He wasn't happy about having to kill the guy but he didn't have a choice. Even after hitting the guy multiple times the carjacker was still up and moving and shooting at my buddy.
I saw all the paperwork on this bc I worked w my buddy's police union lawyer as co-counsel on the shooting review. At that time in Bexar County every shooting went to a review even when no question if a good shooting.
The end of the story is after my buddy got a commendation the SO issued him another vest that was crappy and out of date. About that time someone ran into buddy's car. Ins co didn't want to pay to fix his almost new car right. He hired me. Insisted on paying me so my fee was the cost of a properly fitting brand new 2nd Chance vest, a plate of tacos and the first cold beer w those tacos. My buddy retired last year. Fortunately while he did have to draw his service pistol a few times that was his only gunfight. I'm about to move back to San Antonio and after I get settled in he and I are heading to the coast fishing.
kthom
Member
Jimmy,
I'm in pretty much agreement with most of what's been said here about the high pressure loadings, especially in the older K Frames and the .38 Special only J Frames. Split barrels can and have happened, as you very well know! Some of those were likely the result of the barrel having been overtightened a bit during inital installation and may? have split with any round fired at some point in time. Documented instances involved both low numbers fired as well as many numbers fired through the guns.
The early 125 grains in the magnum loads were certainly higher pressure rounds and the flame cutting was worse with them than compared to regular magnum rounds with heavier grain bullets. Lots of possibilities with no real specific correlation to anything much. But, when those hot 125 grain loads became available, a lot of folks fired quite a lot of them during the time the split barrel incidences became more frequent and more publicized. FWIW, I carried the same Model 19 4" for quite a few years. It had untold thousands of wadcutters and some thousands of .357 mag rounds through it during that time. I never had a problem and never personally saw a Model 19 experience a split frame or barrel. But that did happen. I watched my revolver closely for the problem. I have personally seen some of the alloy frames with split barrels and frames underneath the barrel, especially when higher pressure loadings than standard .38 Special were fired through them, plus know of some of those that were claimed to have only fired standard pressure loads. Who knows for sure? I have also fired a great many rounds through various steel J Frames and a few alloy frames, with no problems, starting about the time the first Super Vel loadings came on the market. Not a high percentage of those rounds were the higher pressure loadings, especially in the early airweight frames.
FWIW, the "cure" that we saw when the L frames were released was also applied to the J frames when they were introduced in the .357 mag chambering. The frame was strengthened and made stronger with the new size J frame. I've owned a Model 442 airweight since shortly after they were introduced. It's fired a good many +P .38 Specials as well as lots of standard pressure target loads. I bought my first good used Model 640-1 (Magnum J Frame) later and after the good Speer Gold Dots for short barrels were introduced. That revolver has had quite a few of the .38 +P rounds fired, as nearly as many of the .357 mag short barrel loadings have been fired. I generally carry and prefer the steel J frames about 90% of the time. And I normally carry the .38 +P loads because they fit any of my J Frames, I know how they shoot, where they hit, and I feel very comfortable that they are plenty good enough for what I want them do. Keeps things simple that way. The mag loads are indeed more powerful, but they are also noisier and a bit more of a chore to control. I feel that the .38 +P is sufficient!
I may have a cracked frame or barrel tomorrow, but I'm not worried about that at all. Based on my personal experience with rounds fired and having no incidence of problems with them in my revolvers, I will continue my practice. I haven't fired a 125 grain loading in any of my revolvers in a very long time. I like the heavier weight bullets and I tend to favor good penetration before great bullet expansion. Both of those things together is great, if you can get it, but expansion without adequate penetration is not acceptable to me. As I said earlier in this thread, my first five shots involve the full wadcutters loaded by Buffalo Bore, but I carry the Gold Dots because they are easier and more surely reloaded, especially under pressure, than the wadcutter shaped rounds. And it is my expectation and hope that after those first five (or less) are fired, a reload can be done without a great immediate necessity to reload and fire again to finish the job. Everything is a **** shoot and anything is possible, but I am comfortable with this level of personal protection and I am comfortable with these loadings being fired in my revolvers, both for adequate practice with them as well as performance in time of need. That's my opinion, FWIW.
I'm in pretty much agreement with most of what's been said here about the high pressure loadings, especially in the older K Frames and the .38 Special only J Frames. Split barrels can and have happened, as you very well know! Some of those were likely the result of the barrel having been overtightened a bit during inital installation and may? have split with any round fired at some point in time. Documented instances involved both low numbers fired as well as many numbers fired through the guns.
The early 125 grains in the magnum loads were certainly higher pressure rounds and the flame cutting was worse with them than compared to regular magnum rounds with heavier grain bullets. Lots of possibilities with no real specific correlation to anything much. But, when those hot 125 grain loads became available, a lot of folks fired quite a lot of them during the time the split barrel incidences became more frequent and more publicized. FWIW, I carried the same Model 19 4" for quite a few years. It had untold thousands of wadcutters and some thousands of .357 mag rounds through it during that time. I never had a problem and never personally saw a Model 19 experience a split frame or barrel. But that did happen. I watched my revolver closely for the problem. I have personally seen some of the alloy frames with split barrels and frames underneath the barrel, especially when higher pressure loadings than standard .38 Special were fired through them, plus know of some of those that were claimed to have only fired standard pressure loads. Who knows for sure? I have also fired a great many rounds through various steel J Frames and a few alloy frames, with no problems, starting about the time the first Super Vel loadings came on the market. Not a high percentage of those rounds were the higher pressure loadings, especially in the early airweight frames.
FWIW, the "cure" that we saw when the L frames were released was also applied to the J frames when they were introduced in the .357 mag chambering. The frame was strengthened and made stronger with the new size J frame. I've owned a Model 442 airweight since shortly after they were introduced. It's fired a good many +P .38 Specials as well as lots of standard pressure target loads. I bought my first good used Model 640-1 (Magnum J Frame) later and after the good Speer Gold Dots for short barrels were introduced. That revolver has had quite a few of the .38 +P rounds fired, as nearly as many of the .357 mag short barrel loadings have been fired. I generally carry and prefer the steel J frames about 90% of the time. And I normally carry the .38 +P loads because they fit any of my J Frames, I know how they shoot, where they hit, and I feel very comfortable that they are plenty good enough for what I want them do. Keeps things simple that way. The mag loads are indeed more powerful, but they are also noisier and a bit more of a chore to control. I feel that the .38 +P is sufficient!
I may have a cracked frame or barrel tomorrow, but I'm not worried about that at all. Based on my personal experience with rounds fired and having no incidence of problems with them in my revolvers, I will continue my practice. I haven't fired a 125 grain loading in any of my revolvers in a very long time. I like the heavier weight bullets and I tend to favor good penetration before great bullet expansion. Both of those things together is great, if you can get it, but expansion without adequate penetration is not acceptable to me. As I said earlier in this thread, my first five shots involve the full wadcutters loaded by Buffalo Bore, but I carry the Gold Dots because they are easier and more surely reloaded, especially under pressure, than the wadcutter shaped rounds. And it is my expectation and hope that after those first five (or less) are fired, a reload can be done without a great immediate necessity to reload and fire again to finish the job. Everything is a **** shoot and anything is possible, but I am comfortable with this level of personal protection and I am comfortable with these loadings being fired in my revolvers, both for adequate practice with them as well as performance in time of need. That's my opinion, FWIW.
In the old days, the HOT 125 gr Jacketed bullets did damage the K frame revolvers
if you shot a lot of that ammo, do to the revolvers design.
Todays Remington GS 125 gr loads are reduced and are safe in all 357 weapons
that are used today, no matter what make or model.
Yes, if you can get them the Winchester 145 ST is a great SD load.
No argument there.
if you shot a lot of that ammo, do to the revolvers design.
Todays Remington GS 125 gr loads are reduced and are safe in all 357 weapons
that are used today, no matter what make or model.
Yes, if you can get them the Winchester 145 ST is a great SD load.
No argument there.
IAhunter
Member
+1 on the Silvertips. Great ammo.
I carry W-W white box .357 110gr JHPs in my M&P 340s. Lighter recoil and no crimp jump. I would love to wring out the R-P 125gr Golden Sabres if I could find any. These would be for the 340 AirLite PDs in which the 110s are taboo.
Anybody out there ever experience crimp jump with the 125gr GS or 145gr Silvertip magnum load in the snub lightweight magnums?
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Anybody out there ever experience crimp jump with the 125gr GS or 145gr Silvertip magnum load in the snub lightweight magnums?
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
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