681ismyfavorite
Member
this.
other than a limited run for collectors they wont sell many to the standard self defense market.... too many "in" guns out there...
Should S&W Make 5906 & 6906 Again?
- Thread starter ShoreShooter
- Start date
this.
other than a limited run for collectors they wont sell many to the standard self defense market.... too many "in" guns out there...
4506517
Member
No matter how many times we debate this here, I always tell myself not to post, but somehow I still do. It does seem like we have done this quite a bit lately.
I would encourage you to look at the well known auction site. A very rare WVSP 4566 was recently auctioned. The selling price was $1675. How many peopel would pay that? I personally bid $1650 for it and got out bid by $25.
Please don't get me wrong. My DREAM is a 4506 with a milled in rail, checkered front strap and a loaded chamber witness hole. I would probably pay whatever S & W wanted to charge.....for more than one copy. Would you? How many here would? Many said they would pay a lot for a newer 3 rd generation. Very few if any bid on the most recent one for sale.
i even think S & W could produce one for WAY less than that. Unfortunately, right now with the political climate the way it is and S & W having record sales, we wont see it. Why? Because the profit margin is so high on the M & P. They make a larger profit on a gun that is faster to produce. They can probably crank out 100 frames for any of the M & P guns and about 10 3 rd generation frames in the same amount of time. Not to mention using lesser skilled workers using raw materials that cost considerably less.
If they started producing 3 rd gennies again, I would be the first in line. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath.
I would encourage you to look at the well known auction site. A very rare WVSP 4566 was recently auctioned. The selling price was $1675. How many peopel would pay that? I personally bid $1650 for it and got out bid by $25.
Please don't get me wrong. My DREAM is a 4506 with a milled in rail, checkered front strap and a loaded chamber witness hole. I would probably pay whatever S & W wanted to charge.....for more than one copy. Would you? How many here would? Many said they would pay a lot for a newer 3 rd generation. Very few if any bid on the most recent one for sale.
i even think S & W could produce one for WAY less than that. Unfortunately, right now with the political climate the way it is and S & W having record sales, we wont see it. Why? Because the profit margin is so high on the M & P. They make a larger profit on a gun that is faster to produce. They can probably crank out 100 frames for any of the M & P guns and about 10 3 rd generation frames in the same amount of time. Not to mention using lesser skilled workers using raw materials that cost considerably less.
If they started producing 3 rd gennies again, I would be the first in line. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath.
I wouldn't pay over $1000 for a new third generation pistol. Not when LNIB examples made with forged parts........or even 90's examples with the MIM parts can be had for much less on the secondary market.
If there was no secondary market available, I'd buy a Sig .45 for less than $1K NIB. Not as good as an older 3rd gen 45, IMO, but more gun for less money than a cheapened production "new" S&W. If current production S&W handguns are any indication of the quality one could expect in a "new" production 3rd gen pistol. Were they to still make them for the general public.
The $1675 for the WVSP 4566TSW is (IMO) simply an example of people with more desire/money than information on what they are buying. Why would anyone pay that much for a pistol that sold new - less than three years ago - for $750? The "Gunbroker effect".
If I'm paying $1000 for a third gen pistol, rest assured it is wearing the Performance Center logo. Oh, and keep in mind that S&W is STILL making 3rd gen pistols at their Houlton ME facility. They just won't sell them to the great unwashed.
Regards 18DAI
If there was no secondary market available, I'd buy a Sig .45 for less than $1K NIB. Not as good as an older 3rd gen 45, IMO, but more gun for less money than a cheapened production "new" S&W. If current production S&W handguns are any indication of the quality one could expect in a "new" production 3rd gen pistol. Were they to still make them for the general public.
The $1675 for the WVSP 4566TSW is (IMO) simply an example of people with more desire/money than information on what they are buying. Why would anyone pay that much for a pistol that sold new - less than three years ago - for $750? The "Gunbroker effect".
If I'm paying $1000 for a third gen pistol, rest assured it is wearing the Performance Center logo. Oh, and keep in mind that S&W is STILL making 3rd gen pistols at their Houlton ME facility. They just won't sell them to the great unwashed.
Regards 18DAI
OP
ShoreShooter
Member
A market study based on a sample of one (me) isn't worth much.
But I recently paid more for a steel PPK/S (made by S&W under license from Walther) than I paid for a full size M&P 9mm.
I am happier with the higher cost purchase than cheaper purchase, and only wish I had the option of an even higher cost steel 9mm. To ME the difference is big, and worth it.
I contacted a gun dealer I trust today. His advice was to avoid a pistol so long out of production, due to parts issues. He raved about 6906 as a weapon. But not used, unless you KNEW it was lightly used and well cared for throughout its life, again just due to parts. Unless you just wanted a collector's piece.
As a result, I am headed for a Sig P229, I believe.
I totally agree with 18DAI, I would like to see a mini-3913 on the same line as a Kimber solo. Not a CS-9. Just take a standard 3913 and shrink it down in size all metal construction. It would replace my edc LC9 quicker than you can drop a magazine.
Smithsrevenge
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I would LOVE if they started producing the 69 series again in a scandium frame :-D
I've owned a 06, and an 04. * i know their a the same gun with a different finish*
. But the only downside to them is the weight......Make em lighter ill buy 10!
I've owned a 06, and an 04. * i know their a the same gun with a different finish*
. But the only downside to them is the weight......Make em lighter ill buy 10!
SharpRedOne
Member
I have a 5906 and a 4506 that I will never part with. I like knowing that I can pick up either one and the trigger pull is the same on both. Both are accurate and reliable. If they did start making these again I would be in line to get one. My 4506 was purchased for $450 new and the 5906 was purchased used with 3 mags for $400. Couldn't get a new (or used) one for that now.
Is that same dealer that told you to avoid the 6906 the one offering you the Sig? I purchased my 6906 used;it was a LEO turn in. I got it home, cleaned it up good, & went to the range with it. I've got five hundred rounds through it. I've replaced the recoil spring & kept it clean & lubed. I would not have a problem trusting my life to that pistol. I think if you were to do a search on this Forum you would find a pretty trouble free track record. 3rd Gen S&W's are pretty hard to beat, in my opinion.
cpeblue
Member
I have a 229 and it's a nice gun for shooting .40 and .357sig but I'd say a bit heavy for a alloy framed 9mm. You do know that it weights in at 32.40oz empty vs 23.50oz for the 69xx and 22.80oz for the 3913. I have a couple of Sigs and I like them but I like my 3rd gens more. Over the past 25 years I'd say reliability has been about the same. Oh by the way when I bought my 3913 the gun pusher thought I was crazy for not getting the then new Glock 17 ( didn't get my first Glock till 2005). I myself would not pass on a 69xx even if you don't like it you can sell it and not loose on it , try that with a 229.
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Should they?
Well maybe. If they could build them to the same quality as the old ones, yes!
I have a feeling that they would sell to a lot of us older shooters who appreciate steel and/or alloy pistols, and too folks who just want a pistol for home or vehicle, and more than a few would carry them, especially the lighter alloy ones.
Problem is Smith has a lot of time and money invested in the M&P line, as they wanted to compete with Glock and get back into the law enforcement market. Therein lies the rub, Glock was seriously underselling Smith 3rd Gens at the time, or were giving such great incentives of buying all the old service weapons and replacing them with brand new pistols with all the accoutrements!
Smith did get back in with the M&P but as we've seen there less than perfect, as is the recent Glocks.
The 5900 was their "bread and butter" pistol, lots of law enforcement carried them, and the 6900 was right behind it. The 3913 was at its time probably the most sought after CCW pistol extant! Consider the fact that SIG built its P239 to compete directly with that pistol! NYPD and I think the RCMP still issue or approve the 5946 for patrol work, and as 18DAI said the weapons are still being produced at the plant in Maine.
Guys and gals I think if nothing else we might try flooding there mail box with requests for 5900s for us and see what transpires. Dale
PS: Would just like to add that I bought another 5906, yesterday!
Well maybe. If they could build them to the same quality as the old ones, yes!
I have a feeling that they would sell to a lot of us older shooters who appreciate steel and/or alloy pistols, and too folks who just want a pistol for home or vehicle, and more than a few would carry them, especially the lighter alloy ones.
Problem is Smith has a lot of time and money invested in the M&P line, as they wanted to compete with Glock and get back into the law enforcement market. Therein lies the rub, Glock was seriously underselling Smith 3rd Gens at the time, or were giving such great incentives of buying all the old service weapons and replacing them with brand new pistols with all the accoutrements!
Smith did get back in with the M&P but as we've seen there less than perfect, as is the recent Glocks.
The 5900 was their "bread and butter" pistol, lots of law enforcement carried them, and the 6900 was right behind it. The 3913 was at its time probably the most sought after CCW pistol extant! Consider the fact that SIG built its P239 to compete directly with that pistol! NYPD and I think the RCMP still issue or approve the 5946 for patrol work, and as 18DAI said the weapons are still being produced at the plant in Maine.
Guys and gals I think if nothing else we might try flooding there mail box with requests for 5900s for us and see what transpires. Dale
PS: Would just like to add that I bought another 5906, yesterday!
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Smithsrevenge
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229 is also a dang tank in weight when fully loaded up. I own one in .357 sig and Use it as a duty gun at work. Even in a duty holster my belt sags to the right *with 15lbs of other equipment mainly on the other side* haha. Also the 229 rusts......a lot....Sigs finish isnt nearly as good as S&W. I've had my 229 refinished twice in the past 5 years.
However my 6906...I now use that when I'm doing plain clothes work. OWB pancake holster for a XDM *waiting on my 6906 holster*.....I cant even tell its there! :-D.
Love my 06......loooooove it haha
War_Eagle
Member
Simple answer: YES, but only if the original style and detail were maintained. No cutting corners trying to marry up stainless with plastic and tactical rails, and all the items (bells and whistles) the other manufactures have gone to. The original design is tried and true, don't alter it.
OP
ShoreShooter
Member
It turns out the 6906 is still being made. Pretty much, but far from exact.
It is in the form of the Sig P239.
I held one briefly in a crowded gun show last weekend.
It is in the form of the Sig P239.
I held one briefly in a crowded gun show last weekend.
VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
The SIG P239 is a very sweet gun. One of my favorites that you can buy new. Still, I'd pay $300 more for a Scandium 3913/4014/6906/Shorty or CS gun any day.
S&W has proven the market is there for quality metal guns with their new 1911's. I especially like the Scandium bobtail 1911. If they can make and sell that one at a profit, especially with all of the fish scales and premium wood grips, surely they could do the same with a, let's say scandium 4513. And for me, it would be preferred over a 1911 as I prefer DA/SA with a hammer and decocker.
In my opinion, cost is not the issue. They have just made some kind of (poor) decision to only offer plastic striker DAO guns other than 1911's.
Kudos to SIG in that regard.
I'm also surprised that Beretta won't bring back the Cheetah in an alloy frame.
And why Browning won't bring out some kind of compact Hi-Power escapes me as well.
S&W has proven the market is there for quality metal guns with their new 1911's. I especially like the Scandium bobtail 1911. If they can make and sell that one at a profit, especially with all of the fish scales and premium wood grips, surely they could do the same with a, let's say scandium 4513. And for me, it would be preferred over a 1911 as I prefer DA/SA with a hammer and decocker.
In my opinion, cost is not the issue. They have just made some kind of (poor) decision to only offer plastic striker DAO guns other than 1911's.
Kudos to SIG in that regard.
I'm also surprised that Beretta won't bring back the Cheetah in an alloy frame.
And why Browning won't bring out some kind of compact Hi-Power escapes me as well.
carbuncle
Member
The P239 was Sig's answer to the then-growing popularity of the 3913. This was the one entry in the 3rd Gen catalog to get near-universal good press and acceptance with industry pros and the buying public.
Posted from my car phone.
I owned a Sig P239 in 357 Sig. Awesome pistol. But the ammo was so expensive and I don't reload...yet. Bought it new for $800 and sold it used for $905.. The 3913 (Yes I own one) have owned several actually.. is IMO every bit as good of a shooter. At 1/2 the cost. To the Ops original question..5906 or 6906.. ? I do not see why they would not.... Beretta and Sig enjoy a great market.. and are great guns. S&W just has to decide to get back in the ring. I see them introduced as PC pistols if they want to compete on that platform with Beretta and Sig. But I do think they CAN compete.
Silversmok3
Member
Sorry guys, the answer is a straight up "NO".
Why? Because we'd be the only ones to buy them. To the typical Gun Shop Visitor, it would be the worst gun ever made. External safety, 1960s ergos, 12lb DA trigger pull, stainless steel frame, 15 round capacity? Snore. "Lemme see that Glock 17 please......."
Why? Because we'd be the only ones to buy them. To the typical Gun Shop Visitor, it would be the worst gun ever made. External safety, 1960s ergos, 12lb DA trigger pull, stainless steel frame, 15 round capacity? Snore. "Lemme see that Glock 17 please......."
Big Mike
Member
I think there is a market for the 5900/6900 series pistols (standard capacities above 10 rounds), but not at the price points they would have to be at for S&W to manufacture them at the margins they're getting with other model lines (previously discussed).
I think if S&W outsourced the manufacturing of any/all style of TSW pistol and essentially "imported" them for sale, they would sell. I suspect the lower labor costs combined with the manufacturing capabilities of some countries could bring this pistols to the market for under $500/retail. Note: I'm basing this on the variety of cz style/1911 model pistols that seem to be produced en masse and readily available (they seem to be selling well). I wouldn't have a problem owning and carrying an "imported 6906TSW.
Having said all that, I think the heydey of these pistols is over and we're consigned to scour shops and the internet to find the best of the gazillion pistols they made.
I think if S&W outsourced the manufacturing of any/all style of TSW pistol and essentially "imported" them for sale, they would sell. I suspect the lower labor costs combined with the manufacturing capabilities of some countries could bring this pistols to the market for under $500/retail. Note: I'm basing this on the variety of cz style/1911 model pistols that seem to be produced en masse and readily available (they seem to be selling well). I wouldn't have a problem owning and carrying an "imported 6906TSW.
Having said all that, I think the heydey of these pistols is over and we're consigned to scour shops and the internet to find the best of the gazillion pistols they made.
cpeblue
Member
Well said BigMike I could not agree with you more . I have a Turkish made Beretta clone that I pick up for $300 nib . It has over 6000 rds through it and it still looks fresh , in fact I have had no issues with it . I haven't had to put a new trigger spring in it yet, all my 92's and Cz's broke trigger springs before 6000 rds. So I think your right , the Turks could most likely make us a better cheaper third gen.
I wonder if S&W would make a special run for a group buy. Maybe the next LEO order that comes in, S&W could make X amount more for the forum group buy. I dont think it would be too much to ask, S&W gets a few more sales and keeps their base happy
