leejack
Member
No, don't confuse them with another manufacturer.
Both sides: little girls can pull the trigger just fine, it's the 250lb cowboys that use their computer for a shooting range, that can't!
Sick of the "elite" bad mouthing the Sigma
- Thread starter mplavellesw40
- Start date
No, don't confuse them with another manufacturer.
Both sides: little girls can pull the trigger just fine, it's the 250lb cowboys that use their computer for a shooting range, that can't!
But to answer your question -- why does the Gun Elite rag on Sigma's? I think the answer is fourfold. First, S&W quality had dropped off compared to other companies, back in the 1980's and into the 1990's, earning a lot of disfavor (this was when quality European guns -- Sig, HK, and Glock -- hit the market with very good designs and high quality products that really took off).
Second, when the Sigma came along in 1994, during those hard times for S&W, the company was getting on the plastic gun band-wagon late, causing some ridicule; and then the Sigma's initial quality was not so hot, with a lot of reported reliability problems (Added: a Google check indicates early Sigmas had problems with the striker, ejection port, trigger, dust cover strength, etc.).
Third, the Sigma was pretty much a blatant copy of the Glock -- raising the question, is that the best you can do, S&W? Glock sued and won a settlement from S&W on copyright infringement. Sigma's reputation plummeted.
Fourth, on top of all of that, S&W (then under a different parent company) became the object of much opprobrium for signing an agreement in 2000 supporting gun-control initiatives of the Clinton administration. There was actually a serious boycott of S&W by many gun rights believers, and S&W sales dropped. When S&W was saved by new owners in 2001 -- who would later resurrect the company by repudiating the agreement with the government and by introducing better products with much higher quality control -- they initially introduced the much-maligned internal lock on S&W revolvers, earning more dislike among serious gun fans on top of everything else.
All of this compounded to give the Sigma a bad rap -- the purists looked down their noses at the Sigma. In the last 10 years, the Sigma soldiered on while S&W improved in all other areas, introduced the superb M&P pistols around 2005, and -- largely unheralded -- also improved the quality of the Sigma.
Fast forward to today, and what do you find? A revitalized S&W, with great relations with its customer base because it makes excellent products and really stands behind them. The boycott is long forgotten, although you can find mention of it on old web postings.
The current Sigma is much improved, and is a good value for the money. The durability and reliability are as good as it gets. The trigger is adequate for self-defense work and can be mastered -- although, out of the box, is not as easy to use as the trigger on the M&P or even the SD. All this ancient baggage is just keeping the demand -- and thus the price -- down to a reasonable level. The Elite's loss, our gain.
Second, when the Sigma came along in 1994, during those hard times for S&W, the company was getting on the plastic gun band-wagon late, causing some ridicule; and then the Sigma's initial quality was not so hot, with a lot of reported reliability problems (Added: a Google check indicates early Sigmas had problems with the striker, ejection port, trigger, dust cover strength, etc.).
Third, the Sigma was pretty much a blatant copy of the Glock -- raising the question, is that the best you can do, S&W? Glock sued and won a settlement from S&W on copyright infringement. Sigma's reputation plummeted.
Fourth, on top of all of that, S&W (then under a different parent company) became the object of much opprobrium for signing an agreement in 2000 supporting gun-control initiatives of the Clinton administration. There was actually a serious boycott of S&W by many gun rights believers, and S&W sales dropped. When S&W was saved by new owners in 2001 -- who would later resurrect the company by repudiating the agreement with the government and by introducing better products with much higher quality control -- they initially introduced the much-maligned internal lock on S&W revolvers, earning more dislike among serious gun fans on top of everything else.
All of this compounded to give the Sigma a bad rap -- the purists looked down their noses at the Sigma. In the last 10 years, the Sigma soldiered on while S&W improved in all other areas, introduced the superb M&P pistols around 2005, and -- largely unheralded -- also improved the quality of the Sigma.
Fast forward to today, and what do you find? A revitalized S&W, with great relations with its customer base because it makes excellent products and really stands behind them. The boycott is long forgotten, although you can find mention of it on old web postings.
The current Sigma is much improved, and is a good value for the money. The durability and reliability are as good as it gets. The trigger is adequate for self-defense work and can be mastered -- although, out of the box, is not as easy to use as the trigger on the M&P or even the SD. All this ancient baggage is just keeping the demand -- and thus the price -- down to a reasonable level. The Elite's loss, our gain.
Last edited:
leejack
Member
^ Good post! 
I re-edited my post to get the sequence of events right.
Anyone else with comments on why the Sigma gets badmouthed by people who have never seen let alone shot one are welcome to amend my litany of "historical" observations behind this trend.
Thanks!
Anyone else with comments on why the Sigma gets badmouthed by people who have never seen let alone shot one are welcome to amend my litany of "historical" observations behind this trend.
Thanks!
leejack
Member
Something else:
As Smith suffered from the woes you mentioned, the Kool-Aid crowd was growing in numbers by leaps and bounds.
They had and still have a vested interest in putting the sigma down.
OK with me though, as it has put the sigma at the price point it's at today. Great job, thanks!
As Smith suffered from the woes you mentioned, the Kool-Aid crowd was growing in numbers by leaps and bounds.
They had and still have a vested interest in putting the sigma down.
OK with me though, as it has put the sigma at the price point it's at today. Great job, thanks!
MDLNB
Member
silverrado58
Member
Sounds like another thread about the 41 Mag. Click Here
OP
mplavellesw40
Member
Hey dkees,
Stop knocking my yearning supple fingers you hand elitest you!!
lol
Stop knocking my yearning supple fingers you hand elitest you!!
lol
Jc85
Member
very informative.
nogoodnamesleft
Member
Hey thanks S&W Rover! ... It seems that Kool-aid has more to do with the hate crowd than anything.
DaveNH59
Member
I haven't fired my Sigma SW40VE yet, but I agree that the "Glock snobs" and others that bash the trigger pull of the Sigma's need to practice their trigger control and shooting technique.
HspncElvis
Member
I agree with you 100%.
KyWstJoe
US Veteran
I don't think they get much "bashing" anymore. So many out there I'd guess almost everybody has fired one and found them to be OK. I did all the trigger work on mine and my wifes. Hers is still longer pull than mine but I seem to shoot hers better and she is better with mine. We swapped. I have over 2000 thru mine and hers about 800. The only problem was my striker broke around 900 rounds. They said dry fire would not break it but I use snap caps now anyway. The only other gun I have considered for carry is the Glock 30SF. They will accept the 13 round mag and that's a lot of 45ACP. As for the Glock I would probably change to a 8.5# spring. I wish S&W would make a Sigma or SD in 45.
Garys1n2
Member
After owning a Sigma for a few months, and shooting it even less, I would have to say that if it was a horse, it would be a Clydesdale...a real workhorse that really grows on you despite what the "elite" say...lol! Since I got mine, I look forward to range time...lol!
rte148
Member
the 9VE was the first handgun I've shot more than 3 rounds out of, and the first "real" gun I've ever owned.
I've shot well over 5,000 rounds through it, it does exactly what I expect it to do - every single time. It even performed perfectly when I tried out the center axis relock.
I don't give a #$%@ what anyone says. If they feel so badly for me, then they're welcome to buy me the gun that they think is better; I'll say "thank you", enjoy the free gun, and still continue to enjoy shooting my Sigma.
FWIW, I also am seeing a new resurgence of appreciation and acceptance for the VE as a 4" poly framed gun. Might have something to do with the economy, I don't know, but they're impressed with the pricepoint/quality of the Sigma, and I love having 4 hi-cap mags (with 2 of them still unopened in the SW envelope from the rebate program).
I've shot well over 5,000 rounds through it, it does exactly what I expect it to do - every single time. It even performed perfectly when I tried out the center axis relock.
I don't give a #$%@ what anyone says. If they feel so badly for me, then they're welcome to buy me the gun that they think is better; I'll say "thank you", enjoy the free gun, and still continue to enjoy shooting my Sigma.
FWIW, I also am seeing a new resurgence of appreciation and acceptance for the VE as a 4" poly framed gun. Might have something to do with the economy, I don't know, but they're impressed with the pricepoint/quality of the Sigma, and I love having 4 hi-cap mags (with 2 of them still unopened in the SW envelope from the rebate program).
me i like all guns from the cheap ones to the expensive ones i evan had a hi point at one time piece of junk till i got 200 rounds thru it then it shot like a dream i can hit a target just as good with my sigma as i can with my friends glock or sig
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