SIG P320 Discharges?

[MikeOrick]

It's my understanding that Glock lost 4 contracts from the military and this is about when the reports started coming in about the defective P320, After Sig got the contracts. This was told to me by a defensive trainer here in Jacksonville who uses exclusively Sigs for his carry.
The you tube videos on the net seem to contradict that along with all the stories you can read. I don't use the Sig brand anymore but it wasn't due to this issue. I think I'll just keep my booger hook off the bang switch.

The M17/18 contract was in 2017 with first batch to be delivered by 2022. The drop safety issue was found and corrected before the militray guns were issued. It went viral when people found out the civilian P320s had the same issue and had not been fixed. SIG's voluntary upgrade for them came later. The AFOSI passed on the M18 and went Glock 19/26. In 2021 the Army gave Glock a $15 million contract for about 9,000 new Glocks. That's called a hint.

 

[MikeOrick]

Even the M9 is not an option anymore. When I retired last year it was already years since any M9 parts had been available, and we were retiring them one at a time as they broke.

They are still around. The last new M9s were delivered to DOD in 2021, four years safter the M17/18 contract in 2017. When the M18 was paused by the USAF last week, there was an E-6 armed with an M9 on the local base. So, some are still around, and some are still qualified to carry them. But it is unusual and not an option most places for most troops.

 

[MikeOrick]

This may have been discussed somewhere else in this thread, but I would still like to clarify something... The military version of the P320, the M17/M18, has a thumb safety. Correct? How does this thumb safety work? How reliable is it in preventing the striker from hitting the primer of the loaded cartridge, no matter what? I wonder if the USAF man's pistol had it's thumb safety in the FIRE position when it was in his holster. Or was it set to SAFE? Have there been other verified cases of M17/M18 military pistols firing unexpectedly? I notice that the Army, Navy, and Marines have not stopped using them.

The thumb safety keeps the trigger from moving, it does not block the striker from moving. The Army carries on safe, the USAF only uses the safety when loading/unloading at the clearing barrel, carries off safe. The Army did have a UID when an M17 on safe in the holster was bumped and it went off wounding the soldier in the foot. The gun was examined and found to be OK and the army said there was no cause for concern. Still does. There have been other UIDs and injuries in the Army and USMC with the M17/18 but the USAF is the only one to "pause" use, and just some commands, not everybody everywhere.

 

[Howardeye]

That principle certainly applies... however, the trigger finger (and trigger finger discipline) being the primary safety is relevant to MECHANICALLY SOUND guns. Safe handling and trigger finger discipline becomes a moot point if the gun in question was poorly engineered and it has so much slop in it that the striker can slip off the sear by other means besides the trigger being pulled. The whole point of this thread is the gun allegedly firing without fingers being anywhere close to the trigger. In multiple P320 AD videos I've seen, the gun was holstered and the person carrying it did not have their hands near the trigger. If something inside the holster caused it to fire while a person was simply moving around, then it's still a schitt design for being that damn sensitive and isn't suited to duty use.

Is this a S&W forum?

 

[Gunny209]

Correct me if I am wrong, but at 80 and been involved with guns my whole life...I do not recall the obsession with keeping the finger out of the trigger guard as gospel as it is today. In VN I saw myself staring down the barrel of a lot of rifles but I never thought about what the guy's trigger finger was doing. I think that with these ridiculous tiny Glock in trigger safeties it became essential to owning one of these striker fired guns and carried over into all firearms. While an absolutely great idea and practice, it only was a result of the Glock style safety and in my opinion a way around a very unsafe firearm. The SIG is just an example of the idea gone too far.

Glock triggere certainly didn't start this. I'm 60 I've heard it my whole life.

 

[StevePi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but at 80 and been involved with guns my whole life...I do not recall the obsession with keeping the finger out of the trigger guard as gospel as it is today. In VN I saw myself staring down the barrel of a lot of rifles but I never thought about what the guy's trigger finger was doing. I think that with these ridiculous tiny Glock in trigger safeties it became essential to owning one of these striker fired guns and carried over into all firearms. While an absolutely great idea and practice, it only was a result of the Glock style safety and in my opinion a way around a very unsafe firearm. The SIG is just an example of the idea gone too far.

I'm an old Nam vet with two hearts and never had indoctrination about triggers . We had safeties . I did watch an M60 gunner put his foot over a paddy dyke and his 1911 had an uncommanded discharge . Our 1911s were in use since ww2 . I have several firearms with trigger safeties , but prefer double single ie Baretta px4 . My range SIG is a p210 . 5th marines , I Corps 69/70 .

 

[MikeOrick]

Miss me yet?

 

[MikeOrick]

How about me?

 

[Navy vet]

Hickock45: "This one is real." Two days ago.

I really liked his analogy with the car, if 1, 2 or 5 fail in a million, that is enough for me. Don't own a P320, but if I did, it would be a Safe Queen. I'd doubt if anyone were trying to sell their P320 right now would get much for it. Maybe the Sig Fan Boys will take advantage of the rush of sales.

 

[MikeOrick]

Or miss me yet?

 

[MikeOrick]

I'm sooo old I was issued one of these (USAF match pistol). Mine was made by Remington and was older than I was at the time. They could go off if dropped just right with a round in the chamber.

 

[Navy vet]

it's a defective product because of the severe consequences of failure.

Where is the proof that the P320 is "defective"?

Hmmmmm Have you watched ANY of the Vids out there where the weapon was holstered and NO hands on weapon? Try asking that question to the Airman's Family. Hickok45 said it best, If 1 fails in a million is enough proof to me to not wear it! Let us know if you carry the P320 daily?

 

[Neumann]

The same feature (cruciform trigger block) that makes the Glock safer, allows it to operate in full auto mode with disconnect rather than slam fire, ie the sear is not released until the slide is in full battery mode.

 

[BIGDOC]

There's no problem with the P320, it's political. Anyone can make anyone or anything look bad in the eye of the public. Pissed off people who didn't get their way and crying like little.... The gun cannot go off by itself, and with society the way it is now there seems to be more un-educated people with firearms today than ever before. Look around you next time you are at the range, take a minute and scope the people around you. I entered the Marine Corp using the issued .45 and saw accidental discharges with that firearm, we transitioned to the Beretta and again their were accidental discharges in other branches also. Proper training and discipline is all thats needed, not a lax attitude with a bullet in the chamber.

 

[BIGDOC]

 

[Kanewpadle]

There's no problem with the P320, it's political. Anyone can make anyone or anything look bad in the eye of the public. Pissed off people who didn't get their way and crying like little.... The gun cannot go off by itself, and with society the way it is now there seems to be more un-educated people with firearms today than ever before. Look around you next time you are at the range, take a minute and scope the people around you. I entered the Marine Corp using the issued .45 and saw accidental discharges with that firearm, we transitioned to the Beretta and again their were accidental discharges in other branches also. Proper training and discipline is all thats needed, not a lax attitude with a bullet in the chamber.

People like you are the problem.

It couldn't possibly be the gun. Right?

How sad for you brother. People have died. People have been hurt.

Plenty of evidence has been produced. And you still defend the gun and blame the user.

And worse yet, you have no proof that it's political. Politics doesn't make guns go off by themselves.

 

[MikeOrick]

Any of the other guns in the MHS trials would have been a safer/better choice. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...

 

[CRT2]

People like you are the problem.

It couldn't possibly be the gun. Right?

How sad for you brother. People have died. People have been hurt.

Plenty of evidence has been produced. And you still defend the gun and blame the user.

And worse yet, you have no proof that it's political. Politics doesn't make guns go off by themselves.

The only factual evidence to date is the P320 fires only with trigger pull. Inserting screws into the action and partially pulling the trigger with your finger and twisting the slide to make it "fire" are not proof.

 

[SS336]

As of today this is our gun clubs response to the P320.

Our Chief Instructor, and I have discussed the ARPC response to this potential problem. AS OF TODAY, we are allowing members to decide whether or not to continue using their P320s at the range. Disciplines will make determinations according to their governing bodies. The decision and liability for using a P320, or any other firearm, at ARPC is completely on you. You are responsible for the decisions you make. We will monitor this issue and will modify our position accordingly.

Executive Director

Well thought out I think.

 

[DRankin]

There's no problem with the P320, it's political. Anyone can make anyone or anything look bad in the eye of the public. Pissed off people who didn't get their way and crying like little.... The gun cannot go off by itself, and with society the way it is now there seems to be more un-educated people with firearms today than ever before. Look around you next time you are at the range, take a minute and scope the people around you. I entered the Marine Corp using the issued .45 and saw accidental discharges with that firearm, we transitioned to the Beretta and again their were accidental discharges in other branches also. Proper training and discipline is all thats needed, not a lax attitude with a bullet in the chamber.

Sigh............................