Sizing and lubing cast bullets. *Updated 3\11*

[Cloudpeak]

I am not sure if my question was answered, if it was I seemed to miss it.

Not using a Luber-sizer, can you lube the bullet before sizing with a die and then pan lube? If so will any lube work, like the lube you are making for the pan lube?

I use the Lee push through sizer dies for 9mm/38 and 45 and I size every bullet out of my Lee 6 cavities and Lyman 4 cavity 45 mold. With the Lee molds, I found a "fat bullet" every once-in-awhile so have made it a practice to just run everything through for consistency's sake.

I spray a very light coat of Hornady "One Shot" case lube on the bullets (one can will last me around 20,000 bullets), tumble them a bit in a Cool Whip container, size them and then tumble lube with White Label "XLOX" (replacement for Lee Liquid Alox) thinned with low odor mineral spirits. Less messy than lubing with XLOX, sizing and re lubing with XLOX. For the amount of bullets I cast and shoot, pan lubing is out of the question and tumble lubing is fast and saves me lots of time.

I've probably cast 60-70,000 handgun bullets and have used this method since day one. 40 years ago, I had a Lyman lube sizer. I much prefer the Lee sizer, LLA/XLOX system.

 

[Hunt200]

Tell and n4zov, I hope I can explain it better, forgive me, I am just starting to get into this.

I will be using a Bullet sizing die, not a case sizing die, the Lee Lube and Size Kit 358 Diameter to be specific, I want to know if you can use a lube like you do on a case to size the bullet instead of using the alox provided from Lee. Then after the bullet is sized I want to pan lube them. I figured using the alox and then pan lubing is overkill so I wanted to use a simple lube to size them with because I read you should not size them without them being lubed.

Maybe the answer is to just lube the die before sizing?

 

[walnutred]

I'm curious as to why you do not want to use the Alox since yo are using the Lee sizing set up.

Have you considered pan lubing the bullets THEN sizing them, if your sure you want to pan lube. I quite pan lubing when I quite shooting odd black powder ctg rifles because I found it very tedious.

 

[Hunt200]

I'm curious as to why you do not want to use the Alox since yo are using the Lee sizing set up.

Have you considered pan lubing the bullets THEN sizing them, if your sure you want to pan lube. I quite pan lubing when I quite shooting odd black powder ctg rifles because I found it very tedious.

It's not that I don't want to use it, I just don't know what the heck I am doing yet and have tons of questions!! LOL

If I use the alox to size them, don't I still need to use a lube to fill the grease grove? Or is the alox enough? I thought the grease grove needed to be filled with some type of lube?

I thought pan lubing them, then sizing them would work, but I thought I read somewhere it didn't?

If pan lubing then sizing works, that is the route I want to try first, just wasn't sure if it was recommended.

 

[Tell Sackett]

Ok, now I got it.

Tell and n4zov, I hope I can explain it better, forgive me, I am just starting to get into this.

I will be using a Bullet sizing die, not a case sizing die, the Lee Lube and Size Kit 358 Diameter to be specific, I want to know if you can use a lube like you do on a case to size the bullet instead of using the alox provided from Lee. Then after the bullet is sized I want to pan lube them. I figured using the alox and then pan lubing is overkill so I wanted to use a simple lube to size them with because I read you should not size them without them being lubed.

Maybe the answer is to just lube the die before sizing?

Hunt,
What you are thinking would be so hard to do it isn't funny.
If I were you, I'd just follow the instructions that came with the sizing die. Tumble lube first, size, lube again, load.

The information that Cloudspeak gave you is good information too and would work. The Hornady One Shot takes the place of the first application of Xlox or Alox.

The first application is what lubes the sizing die. If you want to pan lube then just pan lube, cut them out of the lube and run them through the sizing die. The pan lube you put on will lube the die well enough after the first or second bullet. Not a problem.

Do a web search for pan lube. Check out these videos YouTube - How to Pan Lube Cast Bullets. They may help.

 

[Hunt200]

Thanks everyone, so you don't need to fill the grove? The alox is sufficient? If the alox is all that is needed, I guess that would be the easier route.

I watched all those videos a few times already, they did help me understand pan lubing.

 

[Tell Sackett]

Alox/Xlox is more than sufficient. The grease groove doesn't NEED to be full, and especially if you use Alox/Xlox. Because the bullet lube is ALL OVER THE BULLET it seem to get where it needs to go. Wish I could explain it better, can't. Enjoy and be safe.

Read the instructions that came with the Lee sizing die. You'll be fine.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I make my own lube out of commode seals and canning wax. Works well on everything from .32 s&w to 30/06. Cheap too. I mix, melt and pour it into my RCBS sizer. It hardens in a few minutes and I'm ready to size. Would work good pan lubing too. I qiut buying stick lubes when they got up to about $3.00 a piece.

 

[Tell Sackett]

Mike,
You need to look at White Label Lube and save yourself some hassle.

Their lube did just go up but @ $1.90 per tube, you can't go wrong. Unless you shoot TONS and TONS of bullets, their 18 tube pack, @ $34 would last near a lifetime.

I've made my own lube too. I enjoy doing so. I also enjoy shooting & reloading & casting. Only so much time in a day and part of that is spent working for a living. I decided to drop this part of the equation.

 

[leas327]

You can use the lee liquid alox on a q-tip and lube inside of the die before you start sizing. Repeat every 20 bullets. When you are done take the die out and run patch through it and see if it leaded any. If it did you may have to appy more often or tumble lube before sizing. If it isn't leaded at all go 30 bullets between and see if leads. Work your way up. The dies won't lead as fast a pistol because you are slowly pushing a bullet through a 2in. die compaired to a gun pushing a bullet with a hot ball of fire and sizing a lot of the bullet to a .352ish minor groove diameter. A lot of the bullets I size are only .001 bigger than what I want. When you are only removing .0005 from each side it takes a lot to lead up the die.

 

[Beemer-mark]

You can use the lee liquid alox on a q-tip and lube inside of the die before you start sizing. Repeat every 20 bullets. When you are done take the die out and run patch through it and see if it leaded any.

Seems a lot easier and quicker just to follow the Lee instructions and tumble lube before and after running the bullets thru the sizing die.

Anyway, it works for me.

 

[Hunt200]

Great advice, keep it coming.

What is the advantage\disadvantage of a tumble lube verus lube in the lube\grease grove?

 

[walnutred]

Great advice, keep it coming.

What is the advantage\disadvantage of a tumble lube verus lube in the lube\grease grove?

I prefer the traditional sizing/lubing process because I enjoy casting bullets and I find the whole process relaxing. However I also use Liquid Alox for a couple calibers that I do not own traditional sizing dies. So far I've had no leading problems with Alox on bullets in the 800-1100 fps range. It might work at higher velocities, I've just never tried it faster.

For what it's worth, one of the calibers I use Alox on is 9x18 which I fire from a CZ82. Conventional wisdom is that cast bullets should not be fired from a pistol with polygon rifling like a Glock or a CZ82. I've been doing this for a few years now with no signs of leading, and I watch pretty close because of the stories of Glocks exploding.

 

[Hunt200]

I came up with a formula I am going to try:

16 oz. of Beeswax
12 oz. Vaseline
4 oz. of paraffin
2 tbsp of Johnson's paste wax
1 tbsp of STP oil treatment

I'll let you know how it comes out.

Any comments on the formula?

 

[Tell Sackett]

I came up with a formula I am going to try:

16 oz. of Beeswax
12 oz. Vaseline
4 oz. of paraffin
2 tbsp of Johnson's paste wax
1 tbsp of STP oil treatment

I'll let you know how it comes out.

Any comments on the formula?

How are you going to apply it? Pan lube? If so, it may be too soft to work well. I have experimented with Vaseline with a lube or two. Works well BUT is far from hard enough to pan lube with. Your mileage may vary, hope it does.

Here is what you will find though. You will take infinite care to make sure your lube is measured and mixed EXACTLY like the instructions only to find that the originator forgot to mention the fine tuning process needed to make it do what you want it to. Do you have any idea which ingredient to change if it won't stay in the lube groove when you push them out of the pancake?

Fun endeavor? Sure if you like to mess around with stuff. At times I do, at times I don't.

If you are all fired up about pan lubing or lubing without a die or whatever, take my advice. Buy a lube, melt it down and pour it into your pan around your bullets. You get lube that is proven and that is designed for the task at hand. Try White Label Lube's Carnuba 2700 lube. $1.90/stick with no fuss and no muss.

FWIW

 

[Hunt200]

LOL Tell, I hear ya, I was going to just buy it, but my sons and I are having to much fun playing around!

What would you suggest to stiffen it up? Less Vaseline and more Paraffin or Beeswax?

 

[Tell Sackett]

OK as Glenn Beck says: "Paradeigm Shift"

LOL Tell, I hear ya, I was going to just buy it, but my sons and I are having to much fun playing around!

What would you suggest to stiffen it up? Less Vaseline and more Paraffin or Beeswax?

Now THAT puts a whole 'nuther spin on this lubing bullets thing. Scratch all that I said in my previous post! Mess around as much as you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Give them boys a good time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously!

As for the recipe. One mucho experiencio boolit casting/lube making friend says that the only thing he found paraffin good for was candles. That would mean to stiffen up any lube I would make I would use Beeswax. Hobby Lobby has it in big sheets and pretty cheap, as well as paraffin. Lots cheaper than buying the canning type, Gulf, or whatever.

The break apart method would be the last method I would use. Take a fired case, punch the primer out, drill out the primer hole to 3/16", take a 2" or longer 3/16" machine screw, one nut inside the case, one outside with enough stroke to push the bullet back out. Won't need much force. Thumb may get tired but the lube will stay on better that way than the break apart method.

Just remember, make small changes in small batches. Make the big batch as you said, take a part of it and work on it, noticing ratios. Then apply them to the bigger batch. It doesn't take much to affect a change. If the changes are made on the big batch and it gets too stiff or too soft, bringing the big batch back around is tough to do. When you are done, you may get what you want but you will have enough lube to do about 300,000 bullets! (Don't ask me how I know this! )

Have fun with those boys, that would be the main thing!

 

[Big Cholla]

Hunt200: I have been casting for .357, .41 and .45 for more than 40 years. I still use my Lyman No. 45 sizer/luber one pass does it all. I have changed to the hardest lube stick I can find by using a common hair dryer blowing on the sizer. During the summer I use it on "low" and during the winter it needs to be on "medium". Works great. .......... Big Cholla

 

[Tell Sackett]

Just a bit over 2 hours

Well, this kind of got me to thinkin'. How much time do I have involved in casting and such like? So tonight I thought I'd start a forum journal, so to speak. I spent 1 hour actual casting time, that had 3 -20 to 25 minute waits added on to it, so add another hour 15 to that in actual time and I got 12lbs of 220gr LRN 45ACP bullets out of the deal.

The time involved is a secondary issue to me. When Obama came into office, and everyone got scared and hoarded every component known to man to make bullets, I still had the wheel weights in the garage and could make as many and as different as I wanted.

Freedom - PRICELESS!

OK, just finished up lubing them, add another hour. Ran out of lube at the beginning so took time to refill and get started again.

2 hours actual time, probably closer to 3 with setup and prep and all that other stuff. All in all, not bad for over 300 bullets that are tailor made for my firearm.

These turned out a tad hard too. I filed one off and used my Lee Hardness tester and got a surprise, somewhere between 20 and 26BHN. Now that is cool! I will try these in a 45Colt rifle I have with some really hot loads too. Should work well in the 625 'cause of the shallow rifling, be more like hardball ammo than cast!

Well, until I load up some of this batch, nothing much more to report. If there is any interest to hear about my load testing maybe we could take up less forum space and just pm about it. "Nuff interest and maybe I will post the information on here anywho!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Sending PM