Slow timing on one cylinder - can fix?

[SAFireman]

The gun would almost exclusively be used for slow cock target use, with the occasional slow-cocked small varmint shot in the woods, so the slow timed cylinder is not really a non-issue, although it's not a huge issue either.

Since the gun is nearly new I am wary of changing the hand and possibly end up trading one bad position for four that need work. I'll look at peening. I think I can can see that the offending lobe is smaller than the others. It might not take much reshaping to get this guy right.

But wait - I do have two spare hands I can try and remove again if not working. So if I try these and it speeds up the other 4 positions, how will I know if they are too far ahead of timing then? A binding up of the hammer when almost fully cocked?

All comments are appreciated...

Hondo44 gave you REALLY GOOD advice on a very simple fix.

You don't need to go changing parts, just peen the star as he described.

If you need the help of a gunsmith, there are many here in Texas that can do this very simple operation.

Tell us what part of Texas you are in and maybe we can help you find some good help.

 

[tacotime]

I know a good smith, but he's good enough to be so busy that it's very hard to catch sight of him, and then he's in a big hurry... I now think I can manage this one myself, but thanks for the offer of help.

I'll report the results...

 

[shil]

No intention of being a smartass, but why not contact the factory?

 

[Hondo44]

I see... you would rather buy a taco than make your own... maybe me too, but I am mechanically inclined and enjoy learning about shadetree gunsmithing, and take pride in successfully completing a number of repairs over the years, some of which were not so simple.

With the great resource of so many experienced gunners here, I hate to give up and learn very little from the situation. Also I prefer not to part with the funds and shops around here are taking like 3 months or more to turn around a small job. I would have 3 months to hope nobody breaks in over there and I never see the little MOD 36 again...

That said, at certain times I will go to the 10 minute oil change if I can't get the time to do it and it's well past due, which is maybe 1% of the time. But my dad never would have paid anyone for that and he fixed himself everything that broke in our house and cars and I do not ever recall a repair man visiting our house all the time I grew up. I'd like to carry on that tradition to the extent I can. Note - I draw the line at self-performed brain surgery though. That I will not try again after that last episode!

LOL. Well the self brain surgery isn't showing, you make good sense.

And half the satisfaction of owning my handguns is the reward and satisfaction of learning everything about them and doing one's own work on them within one's capabilities! And expanding those skills as you do more.

 

[tacotime]

Well said.

I think when I ping the bad lobe I will remove the cylinder and support it, so as not to apply any force to the yoke and frame and whatnot and isolate it on the lobe as best I can. I thought about taking out the ejector rod, but the star seems better supported while still installed in the cylinder.

 

[steelslaver]

Piece of thick aluminum plate with a hole drilled for the bushing should work well. I really enjoyed this thread. I have never had this problem, but had wondered if you could peen a lobe. Thank you Hondo

 

[Hondo44]

Well said.

I think when I ping the bad lobe I will remove the cylinder and support it, so as not to apply any force to the yoke and frame and whatnot and isolate it on the lobe as best I can. I thought about taking out the ejector rod, but the star seems better supported while still installed in the cylinder.

tacotime,

I'm afraid that if you're worried about "force to the yoke and frame" you're envisioning TOO HARD of a 'ping'. Just a very light peen with a small hammer is all that's needed. The ratchet teeth are not hardened! This takes finesse, not force.

And by laying the gun on a padded surface without restraint as I described, it's allowed to move when the punch is tapped with the hammer mitigating any force to the yoke and frame.

 

[Jebus35745]

Good advise Jim, the lobes on the ratchet are designed to let the hand slip by it when the cyl cylinder locks. Is this right? Not really sure you could over peen the lobes by light hammer strikes. Larry

 

[tacotime]

I see the logic and will lightly peen as it sits, this weekend.

One thing I noticed this morning, the cylinder stop at that position is ending up partly in the notch, but only partly. When the cylinder stops turning, the stop moves up into the notch enough to keep the cylinder from turning backwards, but it is not fully locked in. A slight move forward and the stop clicks fully into the notch. I checked for burrs or a deformed notch, but it looks completely normal and I deburred the edges slightly anyway, but no change.

I can't really figure how the stop gets past the notch edge enough to stop the backward rotation but is not fully in the notch. Maybe that notch was cut a little forward or rear of the usual position. I'll have to look again this weekend.

Rapid cocking will put it in the notch and fully locked. On the slow cock it's not way off but is clearly different than the other positions and I see this as the kind of tuning that a capable revolver guy would want to sort out.

 

[Jebus35745]

Hopefully the peening will turn the cylinder enough to allow the stop to fully engage. A S&W guru that has since passed away told me to peen the side where the hand

pushes. You may be able to peek btwn the frame and cyl to see the hand working. Mark the tooth with a black marker to access it easier. Larry

 

[Hondo44]

Tacotime and Larry,

The cyl won't go backwards easily because it's in the approach ramp to the cyl notch. To go backwards it has to go 'uphill' against the cyl bolt spring pressure; it will not do that unless forced manually. Your gun sounds like a one tap job, maybe two.

We don't want to peen on the surface that the pawl pushes up on; that will shorten the cyl travel! Peen on the flat surface facing rearward, just above that pawl contact surface.

Larry, yes correct, the pawl will retreat downward when the trigger is released, and slide over the top of the 'tooth' that it will push up next to advance the next chamber.

 

[stantheman86]

If you have the skills, I'd go with the peening method.

I'm also kinda OCD with the carryup of my revolvers, I have a few Smiths that "just" click into full lockup, before the hammer reaches SA cocking or the hammer drops in DA......with cases in the chambers with moderate speed DA and SA. It won't be long before they're out of time.

 

[tacotime]

Update: Peening was succesful. Took a little more force than I expected, so I supported the front of the cylinder on the edge of a cloth-padded table.

That position now times correctly. In the focus on that position, I had not noticed that the next position was slow also. Peened that one also and now all positions time correctly. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Hondo44]

Tacotime,

Bravo!

 

[W Fargo]

From the beginning I 'thought' that the timing on my new 627 PC was good, but unfortunately I also had two slow-timing charge holes.
I looked up the issue and saw the standard answers regarding buying a new hand and bevelling it till it works properly...
But, it was only an issue on two charge holes and only when I very slowly pull the trigger.... Mostly not an issue for a competition revolver but for the long shots where I take my time, it would not lock up before the hammer falls.... I already have some copper build up on the right side of the forcing cone.
But then I found this thread and the peening sollution.
Decided to give it a try. Yes, it was very easy, and yes, very effective!
Really happy with the result!

 

[Sol-Invictus]

My preferred method is to support the cylinder, barrel down, on the edge of a wodden table with a rag. A cut Allen wrench or flat ended punch works great, I have a special punch I have used to fix more rachets than i can remeber, i carry it with me and have fixed many for friends. it is super easy to do and takes minimal skill. If a gunsmith was not competent enough to perform this or recommended a new hand instead of peaning I would run, not walk and never use that person for any work.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[black88is]

The knowledge I learned from this thread is amazing. I would like to thank W FARGO for bringing it in from the past.

 

[W Fargo]

You're more than welcome, man!

It really helped me a lot! and it's such an easy fix for unfortunately quite a common problem.

Literally first thing gunsmiths over here (in the Netherlands) say is: "i'll have to order a new hand and fit it.."

That means not having the revolver for several weeks (best case scenario...) and at least a hunderd euro's in cost...

 

[BruceM]

I was just wondering if "peening" the offending ratchet is the factory approved way of repairing the DNCU issue. The reason I ask is not so long ago, the "old gunsmith's trick" for performing this repair was to peen the end of the hand in order to lengthen it just a smidge. Unfortunately, carry up is controlled by the width of the hand and not the length. There was quite a spirited debate about that one with the proponents swearing it was taught at the factory. However, no factory trained personnel came forward to verify this as nearly as I can remember. I can recall so-called professional gunsmiths removing sideplates via prying with a screwdriver. Not a methodology I would recommend although it may work for some. The have been similar debates about repairing endshake with shims vs yoke repair although I believe that the factory now used the shimming method. So....., I'm just wondering what method the factory taught. This is not a debate regarding the durability and effectiveness of the ratchet peening but rather if it's a factory approve & utilized repair procedure.

Bruce

 

[6string]

For what it's worth, the advise Jim (Hondo44) mentions is consistent with what Colt gunsmiths did in tuning their target revolvers like the Officer's Model Target, etc.
Done right, it's one of the techniques that can really give you a nicely tuned revolver.

Jim