Small primer 10mm?? Really?

[Borderboss]

To the best of my knowledge, all the .45 ACP ammo is being loaded with SPP. I believe I also have some .44 Spl ammo that's loaded with SPP. It makes absolute sense from a manufacturer's perspective, to standardize on a single size. It's also an admission from the manufacturers that the LPP size is unnecessary for the efficient firing of ammo that used to be loaded with LPP.

 

[Liftrat]

Yep, first 45ACP, then 10mm. Haven’t seen any 44 in SPP yet, but I’m sure it’s coming. I thought it was aggravating at first, but have learned to live with it, and I do appreciate the option of primer size these days.

 

[teletech]

A while back I noticed Sellier & Bellot primers listing their primers as "suitable for rifle, pistol, and revolver." so I bought up a bunch for the simplicity in logistics and flexibility They have worked just fine for my needs until now and of course under the current shortage it's particularly helpful.
Speaking of, I've been seeing increasing amounts of the SPP 45ACP brass and it's really been annoying me but I've been keeping it in it's own box just in case there was ever a problem getting large primers.... well, guess what...
I can see it from a manufacturer point of view and for myself I guess since the brass takes up the same space regardless of primer size and more small primers fit on the shelf then I'm all for it, apart from of course the extremely annoying transition period where both types are around. It also saddens me to think that as the trend continues first I'll have to be storing and separating even more calibers and then later LPPs are going to become a scarce special-order item making reloading the oddball stuff an even bigger challenge.
I should measure the internal volume of the case, might be we are getting a touch more volume in the case? .

 

[BillBro]

Yep, first 45ACP, then 10mm. Haven’t seen any 44 in SPP yet, but I’m sure it’s coming. I thought it was aggravating at first, but have learned to live with it, and I do appreciate the option of primer size these days.

I would too, if I could find any.

 

[BillBro]

If I'm remembering correctly, since the beginning, some 10mm ammo have used LPP and some have used SPP. The reason why has never been fully explained but it's been a thing since very early on.

Personally never seen any app 10mm until a week or so ago.

 

[BillBro]

Or just use small pistol magnum primers (SPMP).

It's been posted that CCI SPMP are the same as CCI SRPs. I've interchanged them without issues.

.

Can anyone corroborate this? Not that I dont believe the poster but has anyone else heard this? I too have read this before but only on the interwebs, and we all know the amount of BS stuff being said out there. I would like to know though if its true.

 

[BillBro]

Or just use small pistol magnum primers (SPMP).

It's been posted that CCI SPMP are the same as CCI SRPs. I've interchanged them without issues.

.

Can anyone corroborate this? Not that I dont believe the poster but has anyone else heard this? I too have read this before but only on the interwebs, and we all know the amount of BS stuff being said out there. I would like to know though if it's in fact true.

 

[IAhunter]

I have a handful that are destined to be left at a "lost brass" GSSF match in a few months.

 

[BillBro]

Went to the range yesterday but didnt have my 10mm . I always go brass hunting when I get there since I'm almost always the first one there and on one of the pistol ranges I saw in the trash 2 WWB 10mm boxes, started looking around and found a pile of 97 large primer 10mm cases. Yay!! Also scored some 357 and 38spl brass. The 10mm was, obviously, Winchester, not my favorite 10 brass but it will definitely do for free brass.

 

[Sevens]

Can anyone corroborate this? Not that I dont believe the poster but has anyone else heard this? I too have read this before but only on the interwebs, and we all know the amount of BS stuff being said out there. I would like to know though if it's in fact true.

There is a gentleman on another forum where we discuss handloading and I have massive respect for him. He was the guy who contacted folks at Alliant when ATK was running the show for all the ATK umbrella brands including CCI. They pulled the documentation on the CCI-SR (400) and the CCI-SP-Mag (550) and showed him that they had exactly the same make-up. They told him that it was the same product in two different packages.

It's important to note that since that very day, there is no way whatsoever to know if anything has changed.

I can report that I've been using small rifle primers (multiple brands) for all my .357 Magnum loads, because I tend to load .357 Magnum with slow powders and my loads are on the end of "FULL POWER" for .357 Mag. I will also state that I have zero plans to change.

It's important to fall back on one of the cardinal safety rules of handloading-- load development. If you are well trained and well practiced, then you already know it breaks a serious safety rule to take a max load (or hot load or full load or whatever your pet name...) and simply change some component without dropping and re-working the load.

If you stick to this rule, it shouldn't matter if you elect not to believe what folks have said about CCI-400 vs CCI-550.

Here's the next thing you'll read on the internet that cannot be confirmed: I myself contacted ATK ballisticians more than a decade ago about factory loaded Federal and Speer .327 Federal Magnum ammo and they told me without reservation that all ATK umbrella .327 Federal factory ammo was built using the CCI-400 small rifle primer, and this was due to the 45k PSI max specification of the cartridge.

Because of exactly that, I use small rifle primers exclusively in .327 Federal Magnum handloads. I would suggest that others do also.

 

[Sevens]

As to the small primer hole in long established LP sized brass, I certainly do understand the frustration of the masses. .45 ACP brass had a large primer pocket for around a hundred years before Winchester (I believe, with the NT priming) decided to change it. ATK was right behind. So for sure, that is annoying.

However! I believe I'm the kind of guy who gets annoyed somewhat easily, and yet this annoyance hardly bothers me in the slightest. W-H-Y is that, and could my view help you to be less annoyed? I hope so!

I keep a messy reloading room. Wife hates it. It's funny though, even though I operate in chaos, I'm nearly anal retentive when it comes to my loads and my brass. When I open a 50-round box of ammo, if it is my ammo, it better have 50 pieces with the same headstamp.

In my pea brain, I believe I'm getting some manner of consistency by doing this. And for me, the idea that I'm doing my part at the bench for consistency is going to play out in my favor when it comes to how these loads perform for me, whether they punch paper, slap steel, plink at empty 12ga hulls or take small game. (and if you notice, resistance in the press lever when flaring mouths and seating bullets is absolutely consistent in feel when you are using similar brass and that evaporates with mixed brass)

That means I'm sorting my brass and inspecting it. And finding the different primer sizes is SIMPLE when you are sorting and storing brass. It's not even a bit more difficult, it's just a part of the process.

The net result for me is that I now have options for some calibers and in this day and age of the great primer crunch of 2021, this has been a nice addition to my cache.

It used to be that I used .45 small primer brass for "lost brass" applications. Shooting in tall grass, doing an organized shoot or visiting an indoor range where I am certain to lose brass? No worries, I'll use a bunch of the .45 with small primer pockets. And now?! With the absolute dearth of small pistol primers?! Well sweet, I'm sticking to loading .45 with LP primers, which I don't have to share with a gujillion other calibers.

No sweat. And I'm ignoring the primer size of whatever brass I find for free, because I'm too busy being ELATED that whoever dropped the brass didn't buy aluminum or steel case dreck.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

PRIMERS

I ran into something last night that I didnt even know existed, small primer 10mm cases by FC. Why? Why do they need to do that? They're making 10mm in a primer size that's as rare as hens teeth?
Not saying that a small primer wont set of any 10mm charge just fine, just like 45 but it sure is aggravating trying to jam that large primer in that little hole, and now I have to check the 10s like I do 45? PLEASE!!

As luck would have it, my brass, and there is plenty takes the primers they were meant to.I think this is a cost reduction attempt and I dont care for it at all. Then again, I am old, and set in my ways.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

At very high pressure, the 10mm large primer pocket is too close to the extractor groove. Same thing with 25acp, 30 carbine, and FN 5.7×28mm.

REALLY? I have NEVER had a problem with 10mm or 30 carbine.........Neither has a gazillion other reloaders or factory ammo.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

REALLY? I have NEVER had a problem with 10mm or 30 carbine.........Neither has a gazillion other reloaders or factory ammo.

Nor with 10mm Magnum brass either.

They run the same max pressure (37.5K psi) as 10mm Auto but I've pressed mine hard & never had any issues with head strength.

Had other issues, just not primer pocket related.

.

 

[J. R. WEEMS]

MORE IDEAS

As luck would have it, my brass, and there is plenty takes the primers they were meant to.I think this is a cost reduction attempt and I dont care for it at all. Then again, I am old, and set in my ways.

In addition to the above-- they are also using small primers in the 45ACP -- LARGE primers have been the normal for well over 100 years. At one time I had over 13 45's and they ALL worked flawless with large primers, both factory and my loadings. Good enough for me. Seems everyone wants to reinvent the wheel.

 

[BillBro]

There is a gentleman on another forum where we discuss handloading and I have massive respect for him. He was the guy who contacted folks at Alliant when ATK was running the show for all the ATK umbrella brands including CCI. They pulled the documentation on the CCI-SR (400) and the CCI-SP-Mag (550) and showed him that they had exactly the same make-up. They told him that it was the same product in two different packages.

It's important to note that since that very day, there is no way whatsoever to know if anything has changed.

I can report that I've been using small rifle primers (multiple brands) for all my .357 Magnum loads, because I tend to load .357 Magnum with slow powders and my loads are on the end of "FULL POWER" for .357 Mag. I will also state that I have zero plans to change.

It's important to fall back on one of the cardinal safety rules of handloading-- load development. If you are well trained and well practiced, then you already know it breaks a serious safety rule to take a max load (or hot load or full load or whatever your pet name...) and simply change some component without dropping and re-working the load.

If you stick to this rule, it shouldn't matter if you elect not to believe what folks have said about CCI-400 vs CCI-550.

Here's the next thing you'll read on the internet that cannot be confirmed: I myself contacted ATK ballisticians more than a decade ago about factory loaded Federal and Speer .327 Federal Magnum ammo and they told me without reservation that all ATK umbrella .327 Federal factory ammo was built using the CCI-400 small rifle primer, and this was due to the 45k PSI max specification of the cartridge.

Because of exactly that, I use small rifle primers exclusively in .327 Federal Magnum handloads. I would suggest that others do also.

WOW! Thank you very much for your convincing reply, insight, knowledge.

I only was curious because I'm very low on small mag primers but do have a case of CCI 400's that I'll most likely never use for my 5.5y loafs because I have many vases of CCI41S and like you said about changing any component, it's not wise without redevelopment and I pretty much have all of my loads worked out, tested and recorded and I just dont have any need to change anything about any of them, they work, very well. So perhaps this bit of info will allow me to go back to shooting magnum loads in my magnum guns.

I know I know, some folks dont use mag primers in their 3t7 mag loads, never have and never will but I do. Thanks for the info. It's my thread so I guess I can jack it if I want to.

Now, about that small primer 10mm........

 

[Kyler Hamann]

Switching to SPP may make sense for the manufacturers, but it's a huge pain for the reloaders. I've reloaded the 10mm for about 30 years. In that time I've scrambled to gather used brass from many sources. Somehow I've never stumbled onto one with a SPP pocket (it's possible I have one that I haven't tried to load yet), but I really don't want to deal with regular problems from mixed sizes.
Since this seems to be becoming a more common problem, I just ordered a bunch more new LPP cases and I'm going to quit getting used odds and ends of 10mm brass so I don't have to deal with a mix.

 

[teletech]

In addition to the above-- they are also using small primers in the 45ACP -- LARGE primers have been the normal for well over 100 years. At one time I had over 13 45's and they ALL worked flawless with large primers, both factory and my loadings. Good enough for me. Seems everyone wants to reinvent the wheel.

Reloaders aren't big on change, myself included, but I can't help but read parts of this thread and wonder how much hand-wringing there must have been when the moved away from corrosive primers, or were people just more hopeful about progress back in the day?